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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoparBoyy
first off.. THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT MUSIC PIRACY..

but.. its the little bands that it really kills.. the ones who are really dependat on record sales.. yes it will always be there.. but Napster was getting HUGE.. with no end it site.. they knew it had to be stopped.. or record sales would continue to drop.. also.. if record sales are down.. why would bands go on tour? cause they woun't even know there fan base..

BACK ON TOPIC.. if you want to discuss music piracy.. please start another thread..
Mods - move my post to make another thread because this is worth talking about.

Metallica was going after people DIRECTLY that downloaded their songs. I don't really care about napster and never did - There have been many sources for mp3s WAY before napster and there are many more that still exist and they always will.

The fact that Metallica with all the profits they made were going after the little guys was complete BS. I did go to Metallica shows back in the day when they were actually good. Now, I'd never give them a red cent to go watch them play for two reasons. 1. They turned their shows into a circus act - switching instruments, effects and no cliff burton. 2. Because they lost sight of what made them who they are and where they came from. IMO

The statement about record sales and going on tour is false. If a band has a following the will make money touring period. Actually getting their music out to the public has never been eaiser thanks to mp3s and file sharing. If they don't have a record deal or radio play they can get their music out to the public on their own now thanks to mp3 and file sharing. Which could in turn make them tons of money in the long run.

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
1. They turned their shows into a circus act - switching instruments, effects and no cliff burton. 2. Because they lost sight of what made them who they are and where they came from.
DEFINITION: SELLOUT

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:33 AM
 
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Here's my guess on the thing. If the band is a one hit wonder, then it might take them off the market faster. If it's a band with generally good music, people might download sure...but you're still going to develop some following, and even folks like myself who download understand the difference of when to buy and when to download.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pirate
DEFINITION: SELLOUT
I agree

Quote:
Originally posted by MoparBoyy
o come on.. get a clue here.. how much it cost for a video game? $40-$50.. thats on a CD.. we should only pay $10-$15 for that? NO.. its all the work behind the CD that makes it what it costs..
We are talking about Music here. Not piracy of video games. But since you brought it up ESPN football $19 bux.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
1. They turned their shows into a circus act - switching instruments, effects and no cliff burton.
humm.. i was there on July 4th for Metallica in Detroit.. and there was none of this.. matter of fact stage was very small.. and nothing fancy other than a big TV behind them were they would show some clips from videos or what was going on on-stage for the people in the nosebleed seats.. it was a HARD ROCK show.. nothing fancy.. just playing music.. LOUD!!

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
We are talking about Music here. Not piracy of video games. But since you brought it up ESPN football $19 bux.
i was just making the point about the price..

and yes.. like anything the longer its out the price will slowly drop..

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:44 AM
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the fact still remains..

ITS STEALING..

you can say all you want.. its still stealing..

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 11:53 AM
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 12:16 PM
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It's definitely stealing. You should be buying the CDs, not taking them for free off the internet.

And keep in mind that pirating MP3s isn't so much stealing from the band, as it is stealing from the recording engineers, etc... all the small guys that work to record and assemble the CD. As I have always understood it, the actual band only gets a tiny percentage of the actual CD sales.

Regardless of the percentages - you're taking money out of their pocket. Making music is their job, it's how they make a living. Of course they're going to be pissed if people figured out a way to take their work without paying them for it... just like anyone else would. How does that make them a sellout? Why does music always have to be this honorable, "for the people" profession? As soon as somebody figures out they can make money at it - they're classified a "sellout". I don't get that - how is it different from a plumber or electrician who figures out how to use his skills for profit?

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 01:50 PM
 
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Hmm, inspiring, but I still plan on downloading in record numbers. Perhaps if some of the marketing ideas like selling songs individually existed before then we'd be all good.

Here's the catch that I have...you can listen to the radio and even tape songs then listen to them later, but it's different when it comes to the different sources. So you already have the ability to listen and keep the music for free which is legal, yet if the media changes then it's not. Now sure there's a whole lot of legal stuff associated with it and radio stations pay for it and yada yada, but still, doesn't make as much sense to me....sorry.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 01:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoparBoyy
i was just making the point about the price..

and yes.. like anything the longer its out the price will slowly drop..
This game came out this year at 19.99. Sega made a point of making the game affordable trying to unseat Madden as the #1 football game.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 02:26 PM
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So, what's next?? Banning TiVo? Same thing.

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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I'll re-quote what started this

Quote:
Originally posted by OldSkoolMC
Here is my thoughts on MUSIC piracy.

1) If you are using it to make a profit = wrong and illegal.

2) If you are downloading songs and adding it to a personal collection of music for yourself. = nothing wrong with that. I can record TV shows and nobody cares about that. Devices sold at my local electronic stores have been doing this for years.

3) It will always be there. Most good bands make tons of money selling concert tickets, t-shirts, key chains...etc. Have you watched cribs lately? Doesn't look like many main stream bands are hurting for money because of mp3 getting passed around.

4) Record companies are complaining because THEY are getting hurt a little by sales not being as high, but some how tons of records go gold and platinum all the time
Nothing wrong with Downloading music if you ask me.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OmniGLH
[BHow does that make them a sellout?[/B]
Do you know what the term sellout is or what it means? I can explain it to you if you're confused. Being upset at piracy doesn't make anyone a sellout. So, your question doesn't make any sense.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Here is another good read about piracy and how it's BS.


http://www.azoz.com/music/features/0008.html

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 02:55 PM
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I found this quote by Fred Durst on internet music piracy...

"The Internet is here, and anybody trying to fight that, which would be people who are living by certain standards and practices of the record industry -- those are the only people who are scared and threatened."
- Fred Durst (Limp Bizkit)

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 03:15 PM
 
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i'm FOR downloading music. there's several good points in this thread so far like the fact that there are other sources to get music from like borrowing a friend's cd and copying it or taping it. ipods do the same thing, you copy songs onto one unit for your personal use. i think that's the key here... personal use. if people are selling these out to others, then that's when it should be a problem. i, for one, dl for personal use.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 03:24 PM
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just one thought here. I have numerous and i mean numerous cd's, some are scratched so bad that they either wont play at all or skip and click so bad it's better to trough them out.
Now if I go and download the songs I like from those albums, is that stealing? Since I own the cd already and paid for the songs, do i have a right to download those songs?

Just a point to bring up.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pugsly
just one thought here. I have numerous and i mean numerous cd's, some are scratched so bad that they either wont play at all or skip and click so bad it's better to trough them out.
Now if I go and download the songs I like from those albums, is that stealing? Since I own the cd already and paid for the songs, do i have a right to download those songs?

Just a point to bring up.
According to the RIAA, nope. What about people who have purchased tapes and cant find the CD anywheres except song by song? RIAA still says no. With the exception of some rare stuff thats not available on CD anymore, most the songs I've d/l'ed I ended up buying the CD anyways.


Heres an interesting point to bring up. Everryone has rented movies from blockbuster and such. DO you know you are supposed to pay the rental fee for EVERYONE who will watch this movie? So if you have 5 friends over and the rental is $5, you should pay $30 to rent the movie. Now how many people ever ran into that?

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 03:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pugsly
just one thought here. I have numerous and i mean numerous cd's, some are scratched so bad that they either wont play at all or skip and click so bad it's better to trough them out.
Now if I go and download the songs I like from those albums, is that stealing? Since I own the cd already and paid for the songs, do i have a right to download those songs?

Just a point to bring up.
i'm sure you don't have the "right" to download the songs back for your collection but you're going to do it anyways, right? what you should've done was make a copy of the original cd. afterall, the dvd-r's are meant for you to make backup copies of your movies, right?
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoparBoyy
humm.. i was there on July 4th for Metallica in Detroit.. and there was none of this.. matter of fact stage was very small.. and nothing fancy other than a big TV behind them were they would show some clips from videos or what was going on on-stage for the people in the nosebleed seats.. it was a HARD ROCK show.. nothing fancy.. just playing music.. LOUD!!


Good points Mopar. Half the people complaining that they're "sellouts" haven't been to a concert. They're just brainlessly repeating the same shit other whiners have said the last few years. Attend a concert and make a judgement call for yourself. Oh yeah, you went to one show back in 89' one time so that makes you an expert in their performances 15 years later.

Even if you don't like St. Anger, How many songs do you think they're actually going to play from it? They have 9 or 10 albums and they have to play songs from each one. They know their older stuff is more popular, so that's what you hear live.

Or you hear the "argument" that Metallica sucks. Why? Because they won't let me download their music for free. If they suck, why do you want their music? Get a job; buy the CD's yourself.

God I hear that so much it's sick.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 04:00 PM
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it's just a thought i was thinking about during this whole debate. Most of these cd are older and long before the whole" should have copied it " when I bought it. were talking early ninties before computer ripping and such.

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-27-2004, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoparBoyy
o come on.. get a clue here.. how much it cost for a video game? $40-$50.. thats on a CD.. we should only pay $10-$15 for that? NO.. its all the work behind the CD that makes it what it costs..
The develpoment costs of a video game are much more than that of an audio CD

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