Dog owners, Why do you Crate Train? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Dog owners, Why do you Crate Train?

I'm going through this crate training nightmare with my puppy at the moment and I'm wondering why I'm putting myself through this. All the dogs I've had over the years have always stayed gated in the tiled laundry room while I was gone and were always fine with that. Now I've got a new puppy and we jumped on the crating bandwagon cause it seems like the thing to do, so we put the crate in the laundry room and put him in the crate at night. Which of course he doesnt sleep and barks literally all night, last night he was rolling around in his own shit, How can this possibly be better for him health wise and mentality wise, than just sleeping through the solitary time like he does when he's just gated in the room.

Whats the benefits to crating I guess is what I'm asking, or is it just for people who dont have a room to dedicate to the dog?

Or are people just telling me I need to do this just so I will go through the hell they went through doing this, Kinda like people with kids always tell the no kid people how they have to have kids. just so they can be tied downand miserable also.




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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:17 PM
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never crated them or even sectioned off a room for 'em. i give 'em the whole house except for the furniture....just my way of doing it

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:19 PM
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Tony...you want that pen?

Seriously though...I tried the crate thing with my 2nd dog (I was too young to remember how we trained my first) and it worked ok with the potty training because they are not supposed to want to sleep in their piss/shit. Once he was trained, it took two days, and we never used the crate again.

For my 3rd dog, we never used a crate since we had an older dog at the same time. We kept them in that pen in the basement when we were not home. They key is to be home as much as possible in the first week. If he starts to pee, pick him up (pointing down) and take him outside. Reward him when he's done with his business. Don't punish/smack him for making a mess in the house; its gonna happen.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:22 PM
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When I get a chance to do it again, Im going to try training them with a bell tied to the door handle. Everytime they need to go out, they hit the bell.

Right now they come up to me and stare or just sit by the door and wine.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruz
When I get a chance to do it again, Im going to try training them with a bell tied to the door handle. Everytime they need to go out, they hit the bell.

Right now they come up to me and stare or just sit by the door and wine.
my brother did the bell thing with his golden puppy and it works like a charm.

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:39 PM
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my folks didn't do it with the first dog, but they do it with their current dog. but he's a cocker spaniel, so getting him a roomy crate takes up much less space than it will for you to get a roomy crate for a golden.

but anyway, dogs like having a den-- so in that respect, if done right, a crate is great for the dog. but my folks did it this time because they just simply wanted to set some boundaries in their home. they also knew they would move within a few years and that the crate would make the adjustment much better for the dog.

I think that this is a great setup for my folks, compared to dog #1. but it's all personal-- I don't crate train timber. she gets run of the house.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Ya I'm trying to be home as much as himanly possible plus I've got my nieghbor coming over to let him out a few times a day also while I'm away. Basicly I'm just wondering if theres some huge benefit to it for the dog in the long run or if being penned up in just a room is basicly the same thing. cause he's fine with being penned up, but put him in a crate in the same room and its insanity, I'm worried about him hurting himself in there, he actually knocked the door open the other night while trashing around.




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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:44 PM
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1. it's part of potty training because they usually will not potty where they sleep. It also builds up their tolerance because they are forced to hold it.

2. gives them a sense of something in your house is theirs. If you crate train them properly they will feel safe and secure and love their crates.

3. eventually the yelping stops and they will behave

4. Retrievers have a wild temperment for the first two to three years and crating them while your not home reduces damage to your property.

I could probably think of more but for now that's it off the top of my head

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:45 PM
 
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Its kind of different for all dogs. I had a blue heeler that crating never worked for, but he did good when locked in a smaller room. High energy dogs dont always do well in crates. If the laundry room has worked for you before, then try it again. Good luck!
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:46 PM
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alot of the peeing and pooping in the crate depends on how big of a crate you got him, you are suppose to get him a crate just big enough to sleep in because they dont like going to the bathroom where they sleep. if got him a big crate for when he gets full size find away to block off half of it, also the crying...... you can either move the crate in the bedroom with you and it will diminish once he knows you arent leaving him or give him something that smells like you. putting him in a gated area is more likely to slow the potty training process because he can go and then sleep far away from where he went. once he is potty trained there is no reason for him to have the crate in my opinion unless he tears things up. if he doesnt listen then we use the crate to get our point across but for the most point niko no longer uses his crate.


so in all actuality is at your descretion on whether you use the crate and keep it up or not.


i have used crates with both of my dogs and they were pretty much potty trained in a rather small amount of time compared to others i have talked to. also fewer "accidents" in the house when they are out.

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:46 PM
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tony, the thing is used for potty training, the crate is his home, he needs to feel as such, he needs ALITTLE room though. while at home leave the door open to it, play around it, play with him inside of it. etc.

he will pee and shit in the house, and you need to like john said pick him up, and take him our side, saying pee pee and po po out side! take him back inside, and show him his mess and tell him NO, no pee and po po here.

take him back outside and and tell him to do it out there, use the same words.

try taking him outside as much as possible, WHEN he goes out side, PRAISE him, give him a treat, when he goes in the house, make it known your not happy, just tap the butt, dont beat the lil guy up or nothing..lol


keep going threw this he will get the hint, and YES hang a bell low enough for him to hit with his nose, start working with that too, every time you call him over and ask? PEE PEE popo outside?

RING the bell.

then take him out side, start doing all of that and he will sooner or later do it.

WATCH it sometimes they might get in the habbit of just laying at the back door looking outside, and barking or what not.

you need to get to learn his actions and what he is telling you.


above all the crate was used to make the puppies learn not to pee and shit in there own home "YOUR entire house, and HIS NEW HOME" if not he will be peeing and shitting all over the place, cause to him at this age and as small as he is, your home is like the world to him.

ITS SO BIG, surley my little pile wont be seen again...lol

get it?

hope this helps.

YOU could also try the laundry room trick, put down some paper get him to pee and shit on the paper once he gets use to that, put the bell on the door, put his soiled paper in the back lawn, and get him to start moving it outside, with his scent on the paper he will start to relalize to just start going outside, then take away his paper, once he finds he grassy pee spot or shit spot, HE IS GOLDEN.

this is the way i did it with my dog, it took him maybe a winter to get it in his head.

when he needed to use the bathroom, he would go ring his bell, i would take him outside and did his biz he came back inside and i give him a treat.


4 or 5 i forget later....he will either come to me, give me that look and movment like COME ON! go ring his bell, i let him outside to do his bizz, he comes back inside, and SITS on the carpet, and lifts his paws for me to clean during the rain or snowy months.






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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
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4. Retrievers have a wild temperment for the first two to three years and crating them while your not home reduces damage to your property.

this is the main reason we still use the crate for our boxer, high energy output = major damage to coasters, cheyennes leather wallet and leather work boots, all newspaper, kleenex and anything on our kitchen counters......

boy was that a mess, but no pee or poop in the house ...go figure

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 02:56 PM
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Keeping them stuck in a crate so they don't piss where they stand is one of the cruelest damn things I've ever heard to be perfectly honest. For that reason I'd probably just gate off a utility room to give them some kind of space while they learn not to piss in the house.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 03:18 PM
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My dog was in his crate for 3 weeks top as a pup as soon as he figured out where the door was and what it was for he has not been crated since. home alone 11hrs a day never a problem

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
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Keeping them stuck in a crate so they don't piss where they stand is one of the cruelest damn things I've ever heard to be perfectly honest. For that reason I'd probably just gate off a utility room to give them some kind of space while they learn not to piss in the house.
Trust me...if they get that uncomfortable that they can't stand it anymore they'll make a mess all over themselves. A puppy needs to go out every couple hours and you build that up over time. It doesn't hurt them anymore than someone telling their kids they have to wait for the next gas station

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy
Trust me...if they get that uncomfortable that they can't stand it anymore they'll make a mess all over themselves. A puppy needs to go out every couple hours and you build that up over time. It doesn't hurt them anymore than someone telling their kids they have to wait for the next gas station

exactly, couldnt have said it better myself

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 03:31 PM
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Well Tony i crated my 2 labs and they love it. Yes it was tough at first but its only for a short while. The main reason i crated them was for space. I believe they need their own den. When the kids are playing with them and they get "Tired" of being bothered they go inside their crate and NOBODY is allowed to go near them until THEY come out on their own. The only time they are locked in the crate is at bedtime or when we go to work.

They spend most all of the time in the crate (with the door open) when they are tired or lazy. When we go on trips with the dogs we fold the crates and bring them with for the night time portion. Its great and no fear of the dogs getting obnoxious in a strange environment. When its getting late and the dogs are in the living room all i do is turn off the tv and both dogs start getting up and stare at me. I then say "Okay...Lets go to bed!" They both take off to their crates and she curls up while he stretches out!"

its SO SO SO much easier for a dog thats crated to go to a strange place because the crate is their own home of familiarty.

By the way if anyone thinks crateing a dog is cruel.......you OBVIOUSLY have not crated a dog before and are injecting human feelings upon the domestecated animal. My dogs absolutely LOVE their crates! How do i know? Because i do not even have to lock the door on the crates because they stay inside all night long.

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 03:37 PM
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ya bro. never crated trained. i've always had real good luck with giving the dog the run of the house and then if they show signs of "potty" to the appropriate door we go. or if they did their thing on the floor put his nose by it, little spanking and yelling then out the door. never had a problem since.

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input guys, I have his crate partitioned off so he has just enough room to turn around in it, so supposedly he's not supposed to want to evacuate in there.

Right now I'm concerned with his health, I know puppies are supposed to sleep a lot and becasue of this crate situation he is missing out on a good 8 to 9 hours of sleep becasue he is barking and slamming his body into the walls of the cage the whole time. I'm worried it is going to have adverse health affects on his growth.

As far as potty training I'm doing everything listed in this thread including using a bell on the back door. If the crate is only for potty training than thats fine, thats what I was looking to find out. Cause Honestly I do not plan on keeping him in this thing forever. I know I would be pissed off if I was in a box as big as me for 8 hours a day, It just seems cruel to me, and bad for him unless he calms down in it. so far he's been in it since saturday night every night and has freaked out in there the whole time. I've tried putting the dryer on, some suggested that, didnt work, tried a clock hoping the ticking would lul him to sleep, nope he cant even hear it over his noise, Even leave the door open for his so he can get used to it, first time I did that he walked over to the cage and pissed right in it on the blanket that his mom had slept on. even give him treats every time he walks in there.

Short of a trank gun, I'm not sure what else I can do to get him to lay down in there and relax.

I seem to be cleaning up just as many messes as if he was just locked in the laundry room all night. I just dont get how this is supposed to stop him from doing his business. Last night we had the pleasure of giving him a bath at 3 am and completely disasembling his cage and washing it.




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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:18 PM
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let me know when your home bro, i think from what your saying he doesnt have enough room.



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plus i think i got a better method for you.



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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:21 PM
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Dude sleep next to the cage, i had to do that for the first few nights we had winston!! wait that may be why he was only crated a few weeks ! LOL

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks for all the input guys, I have his crate partitioned off so he has just enough room to turn around in it, so supposedly he's not supposed to want to evacuate in there.

Right now I'm concerned with his health, I know puppies are supposed to sleep a lot and becasue of this crate situation he is missing out on a good 8 to 9 hours of sleep becasue he is barking and slamming his body into the walls of the cage the whole time. I'm worried it is going to have adverse health affects on his growth.

As far as potty training I'm doing everything listed in this thread including using a bell on the back door. If the crate is only for potty training than thats fine, thats what I was looking to find out. Cause Honestly I do not plan on keeping him in this thing forever. I know I would be pissed off if I was in a box as big as me for 8 hours a day, It just seems cruel to me, and bad for him unless he calms down in it. so far he's been in it since saturday night every night and has freaked out in there the whole time. I've tried putting the dryer on, some suggested that, didnt work, tried a clock hoping the ticking would lul him to sleep, nope he cant even hear it over his noise, Even leave the door open for his so he can get used to it, first time I did that he walked over to the cage and pissed right in it on the blanket that his mom had slept on. even give him treats every time he walks in there.

Short of a trank gun, I'm not sure what else I can do to get him to lay down in there and relax.

I seem to be cleaning up just as many messes as if he was just locked in the laundry room all night. I just dont get how this is supposed to stop him from doing his business. Last night we had the pleasure of giving him a bath at 3 am and completely disasembling his cage and washing it.

Welcome to raising a puppy. Trust me....none of what you have just described is out of the ordinary. It's not easy. Sometimes it takes a month or more of this. BTW.....you gotta keep that blanket out of there. If he was taught to go on towels at the breeder he's going to go on anything like that material. Make sure Rusty knows that's bad!!!!!! and don't give him anymore opportunitys or your going to get into wet beds, sit on wet couches and find hampers full of wet stinky clothes

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Fine come on over. I am home right now




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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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wait that may be why he was only crated a few weeks ! LOL
hahaha sounds about right

I've thought about doing this but I dont think I can handle the noise that close to me.




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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:23 PM
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with Diamond we only crated when we were gone from home and *maybe* for a week or two at night. I will say that we got lucky and she learned really quick. She also slept through the night really quick.

I do remember giving baths in the middle of the night..being in the back yard at 3 am spraying out the cage etc. not friggin fun

crating is a personal decision. Youve tried the radio thing I assume? Remember dogs are a pack animal that from the day theyre born try to figure out where they stand in the pack. YOU are the leader of the pack..which ever way you go dont let him set the rules, break the rules, etc. He is testing you-dont let him win. It's 10 times harder breaking bad habits rather than teach good ones. From what Ive read in here from you Tony, hes one smart dog and will learn quick. Just be firm and he'll figure out that fighting the system doesnt pay.

Also, none of this will effect his growth or maturing or learning. If he gets sleepy anough he will sleep.

Some people use canned dog food or put scraps in the bowl-because their dog wont eat otherwise. I made that mistake with our first two dogs. Not this time. Diamond gets dry in her bowl and thats it. She gets a glucosamine/chondroiten pill in PB once a day- nothing more nothing less.

I could go on forever...but Id have to start charging you at some point kidding of course

Mike

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Last edited by 2weelpilot; 02-09-2005 at 04:25 PM.
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Welcome to raising a puppy. Trust me....none of what you have just described is out of the ordinary. It's not easy. Sometimes it takes a month or more of this. BTW.....you gotta keep that blanket out of there. If he was taught to go on towels at the breeder he's going to go on anything like that material. Make sure Rusty knows that's bad!!!!!! and don't give him anymore opportunitys or your going to get into wet beds, sit on wet couches and find hampers full of wet stinky clothes
I know, I'm not arguing with ya on anything.




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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:24 PM
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the breeder tought him to use the bathroom on a cloth?

OMG...lol nuts!

i think tony took my suggestion of a blanket or padding with a warm water bottle, to give him comfort, but the dog was lead to believe pissing on such items are ok?


ROFLMAO!!!!! better buy a shit load of fabric cleaners, rug cleaners shampoo'r its gonna get messy IN DA HOUSE!

hahahhaa



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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:25 PM
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Oh.....and by the way. Call the place where your taking him for training. I've found that there are many ways to train a dog, but if hodge podge everyone elses ways you run into trouble. Find out what your trainer wants and be consistent. You may even find some of his other training will depend on crate training. Find out before you change anything

Brian (F.K.A. Crazy)

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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-09-2005, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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with Diamond we only crated when we were gone from home and *maybe* for a week or two at night. I will say that we got lucky and she learned really quick. She also slept through the night really quick.

I do remember giving baths in the middle of the night..being in the back yard at 3 am spraying out the cage etc. not friggin fun

crating is a personal decision. Youve tried the radio thing I assume? Remember dogs are a pack animal that from the day theyre born try to figure out where they stand in the pack. YOU are the leader of the pack..which ever way you go dont let him set the rules, break the rules, etc. He is testing you-dont let him win. It's 10 times harder breaking bad habits rather than teach good ones.

Also, none of this will effect his growth or maturing or learning. If he gets sleepy anough he will sleep.

Some people use canned dog food or put scraps in the bowl-because their dog wont eat otherwise. I made that mistake with our first two dogs. Not this time. Diamond gets dry in her bowl and thats it. She gets a glucosamine/chondroiten pill in PB once a day- nothing more nothing less.
Didnt try the radio, but did try the tv when he was crated in the family room. All it did was run up my power bill

and I'm with you on the food thing, I dont feed my dogs scraps either. Dry food is all they need for good health.




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