Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage 15-35% - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage 15-35%

whadya all think about this?

http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwa
whadya all think about this?

i think i'll let you try it first.

Chris
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf
I've got the perfect test car for this, it was free.
I'm out to get the acetone today. We'll see within a couple weeks.
sweet! don't forget to let us know!
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 10:54 AM
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Acetone is a solvent and a carcigen. I don't want to be breathing it coming out of an exhaust.

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner
Acetone is a solvent and a carcigen. I don't want to be breathing it coming out of an exhaust.
well ya worry about that. I use acetone and know people that used it all their life without trouble. If you're concernet about .25% of your fuel being acetone vapor, and you're not worried about inhaling 99.75% of other real bad shit that so be it lol.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf
Jay,
Back when I was born, my Grandfather was a senior engineer for Ethyl corporation. He worked side by side with the likes of Charles Kettering who was a very instrumental inventor at GM fuel systems in Columbus,OH. Prior to that, Kettering worked with Henry Ford in Detroit and was listed in the Ford museum as one of the most influential inventors of the motorcar industry.
The name today may be more familiar to you as the Sloan/Kettering institute for cancer research. This history I know because of my Grandfather sharing with me for my entire life. Back when I was in high school, gramps would visit us and always had some 'miracle' additive to put in my '66 289 stang. That sh*t worked miracles with only 3 to 4 drops per tank.
I have an autographed copy of Kettering's biography as well a the candy dish gramps made for his b'day back in the 50's.
This is going to be fun.
interesting! So he never told anyone what that 'miracle' stuff was huh
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butchf
Almost everyone in fuel systems engineering can tell you but they have seriously been encouraged not to disclose. Back in the 50's introductions of lead and graphite were used to aid in lubrication. When mixed with some other, rather highly volitile chemicals an immediate performance can be felt.
Think in terms of the history of fuels in professional drag racing. Nitro-methane type stuff. Their are other solutions, well I think they are solutions I'm not a good chemist, that have the effects of boosted horse power yet have a down side effecting longevity and could explode. I really wish I'd paid more attention when I had the chance.
ya shoulda payed more attention lol. so, howabout ya go fill a tank, add some acetone and start the testing?
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 12:36 PM
 
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Doesn't acetone dissolve some types of plastics? There is quite a bit of polyethelene of different types in your fuel system. Perhaps at that low concentration there is not any issue.

However, I would mix it into a 5 gallon can of gasoline...not add it directly to the fuel tank. You might not get it mixed evenly enough.

I also think that the resutls will be very limited on newer cars that already have high mileage. IF the effect of acetone is to improve vaporization... and the fual is already adequately vaporized, I doubt you see much of an improvement. However in a 5-10 year old car, you may see a more noticeable improvement.

Hell, I can save 15% by simply driving 5mph slower in most cases.

Last edited by cherrypicker; 03-26-2005 at 12:40 PM.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 12:57 PM
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I'd be careful about pouring acetone into your fuel tank. As cherrypicker said, acetone eats some plastics and there is a lot of plastic and rubber in a car's fuel system. I see the difference in longevity of fuel system components from my customers that use cheap gas as opposed to Shell, BP, etc let alone pouring acetone in there.

Edit: another warning, I also don't know what effect the acetone will have on the catalytic converter either.

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 05:00 PM
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I am very skeptical of this. I can't say it's total BS yet, since I haven't done the research, but it very definitely sounds too good to be true.

One thing in particular keeps bothering me. They mention "research back in the '50s" as supporting this, so why is it only coming up now? By my count, there's been at least 45 years in which this could have been publicized, so why are we only hearing about it now?

The source for the linked article starts off by talking about how the "American Car Manufacturers . . . . want bad mileage." This ought to be a warning all its own: why would the Big Three have wasted so much R&D money on improving gas mileage to meet CAFE standards, when they could just have lobbied to get acetone into the gasoline instead?

The author claims that acetone works due to its "rapid inherent molecular vibration that prevents fuel from escaping the combustion process and going through unburned." The implication is that the acetone shakes loose the gasoline molecules, causing better vaporization and thus better mileage. I'm not a chemical engineer, but that sounds like a bogus explanation to me. Even assuming that acetone has a rapid inherent molecular vibration, I don't see how that would affect the bonds between the molecules of gasoline--especially given the low concentration of acetone that is supposed to be necessary to make this work.

There's more circumstantial evidence that this is not altogether on-the-level. The continuous ranting against the Big Oil Conspiracy is one piece. Another is the repeated plugging of the ScanGauge, which appears to be some sort of a mileage indicator. Neither of these are hallmarks of good scientific writing.

Finally, without meaning to pass judgement on the motivations of this inventor, this looks suspiciously like a variant on the old story of the miracle carburetor (see snopes.com for details and a nice debunking). The general theory--that gasoline doesn't vaporize completely in an unmodified engine--is also the basis for hundreds of questionable devices that have come and gone over the years. This might work, but I would really, really like to see a scientific test of it under controlled conditions before I start putting acetone in my gas.

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 05:55 PM
 
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Keep us posted on your results. I'm interested.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 09:16 PM
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Acetone?

Acetone melts plastic/rubber/vinyl. Whoever dares try it, please post your results. Mothballs, on the other hand................................
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 09:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrand
The implication is that the acetone shakes loose the gasoline molecules, causing better vaporization and thus better mileage. I'm not a chemical engineer, but that sounds like a bogus explanation to me. Even assuming that acetone has a rapid inherent molecular vibration, I don't see how that would affect the bonds between the molecules of gasoline--especially given the low concentration of acetone that is supposed to be necessary to make this work.
.
I tend to agree... I actually work directly with several chemical engineers ... I'll throw it out there at lunch next week.

Again... this might work on older cars from the 80's and 90's with early FI systems that have poor atomization of fuel, but newer cars have very well design combustion chambers, and fuel injectors.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 10:27 PM
 
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I bought some Chemtool B-12 tonight to put in my gas. One of the ingredients is acetone. Can't be to hard on the engine components then, especially at low concentrations.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-26-2005, 10:45 PM
 
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This is a bunch of crap. Acetone has a higher vapor pressure than gasoline meaning it evaporates very quickly. Pour it in and I doubt you'll get too far before it's gone. Actually, that's a good thing because....
Although the rubber/plastic parts in your fuel system are designed to resist aggressive chemical attack, they are not designed to withstand acetone - I've dropped carb seals in it before when cleaning parts and it's like carb cleaner - makes them swell and basically turn to mush. Is there any better recipe for an engine fire than a rubber line corroding to the point that it pours fuel all over your hot engine.

Look at the chemical makeup of acetone (C3 H6 O), There is not even enough oxygen to support combustion by itself much less have any effect on the combustion of gasoline. If you've ever used acetone, you know it is an excellent solvent - I often use it to thoroughly clean parts before powdercoating - even if it makes it through the fuel system has anyone thought about possible washdown of your cylinder walls or acids that are formed during combustion that will decrease the life of your motor?

Let's give it up people - there is no miracle fuel. Yeah, gas is expensive - live with it. If you've gotta ask what the gas mileage is, you can't afford to drive it. Start contacting your elected officials because the taxes sure aren't helping.
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 08:55 PM
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I agree. There is a load of crap in this article. There is no amount of surface tension that will keep water from boiling long before 300 degrees. Also, atomization in your intake has nothing to do with "vibration frequencies". And can you imagine how much money a guy could make these days if he really did have a chemical that makes big mileage increases? He'd be a billionaire. So unless the petroleum/auto industry is paying each of these knowlegable gentlemen billions of dollars, they would sure as hell market that secret chemical.

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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 09:02 PM
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I heard sugar is great for the fuel injectors. Dump about a 5 lbs bag in the gas tank and you will immediately notice a difference in performance. Good stuff.

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-27-2005, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
I heard sugar is great for the fuel injectors. Dump about a 5 lbs bag in the gas tank and you will immediately notice a difference in performance. Good stuff.

they did that on myth busters, but with a carb. The car ran the same.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 07:41 AM
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You what increased gas mileage, take the spare tire out of you car to make in lighter and hope you don't get a flat.

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 01:10 PM
 
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Didn't the show Mythbusters try the sugar thing and found that the engine runs just fine on sugar?
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 01:18 PM
 
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Quote:
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Didn't the show Mythbusters try the sugar thing and found that the engine runs just fine on sugar?
Yup... sugar does not disolve very well or at all in gasoline. The worst it could do is clog the fuel filter.... but it won't destroy the engine.
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrypicker
Yup... sugar does not disolve very well or at all in gasoline. The worst it could do is clog the fuel filter.... but it won't destroy the engine.

Sugar will not destroy an engine but it does a pretty good job of making a mess out of a carburetor. I've seen the results first hand on a customer's van we work on. They got him twice in 2 weeks.

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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-28-2005, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrypicker
Yup... sugar does not disolve very well or at all in gasoline. The worst it could do is clog the fuel filter.... but it won't destroy the engine.
Of course, I've heard of the same joke being played using Karo syrup, which might actually make it through to the engine.

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 01:23 AM

 
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After 3000 miles

OK, I've run over 3000 miles with acetone in every tank on my old Jeep Cherokee with over 140,000 miles. MPG increase was slightly better from 21 to 23 overall. Truck runs just fine not a single problem. Although it appears to help some with mpg, it is barely noticed.
My non-scientific conclusion: not worth the hassle.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
I heard sugar is great for the fuel injectors. Dump about a 5 lbs bag in the gas tank and you will immediately notice a difference in performance. Good stuff.
really???? I'll have to try that

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteSeatEnvy
I heard sugar is great for the fuel injectors. Dump about a 5 lbs bag in the gas tank and you will immediately notice a difference in performance. Good stuff.
You got it all wrong. You put the sugar in the oil but you have to put more than the oil filter can hold thus making the bypass thing blow out of the filter due to being pluged. This sugar crystalizes throught the engine at high temps. Your fuel econemy is shure to change.
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 10:03 AM
 
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In one of the forums i got banned , it being a truck forum. There were a lot of people that believed it was a miracle fuel mileage increaser It was my right to flame all those people.

If it actually worked like the guy said in the article, people would be getting a 10mpg or more increase.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 10:09 AM
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Butch, how much were you using per gallon? what %mix or total per ?? gallon tank?
auto manufacturers would give anything for a 2mpg increase in a truck

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2005, 11:40 AM

 
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I tried from 2 to 4 ounces per 16 gallons. I suppose if I had some small bottles and pre measured each then it wouldn't be too bad. Instead I just bought quart cans and measured each fill up.
Just to clarify. Started with 2 oz. saw average of 2mpg for 3 tanks. Went to 3 oz same result then 4 oz same result. Went back to 2 oz for the remainder of the test. Even towed the bikes a couple times.
I compared 3000 miles without acetone and documented driving routes and habits with 3000 miles attempting to emulate the prior miles. The first tank after stopping acetone, the mileage dropped off again. Each fill was from the same gas stations and were filled with the same miles on the trip odometer.
Trips included were to BHF race track, Putnam race track, and to my cabin up north. Loads were very much the same each trip. Oil change was performed at the beginning of each 3000 mile segment.

Last edited by butchf; 07-14-2005 at 11:51 AM.
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2005, 09:34 PM
 
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Sugar in a gas tank? That is how you finish someones car. It causes the engine to cease completely.
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