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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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stretching to make a first mortgage

okay,

I need the advice of everybody here. I have decided that it's time to purchase a house and stop renting. I have decided that I want to live in the town I am living in now (Westchester) We initially sat down and looked over all the numbers and decided that we could afford a house at $X. However, after spending 1 day looking, we decided that we needed to push that up a few thousand to get a little more house. We went and looked at a house, quite a bit larger then everything else we had looked at. It needed some cosmetic work (hardwood floors resanded, backyard has dead grass, paint, etc) We made an offer last night and they came back with a final counter offer. There counter offer is about $5000 more then the cap of what we wanted to spend.

I know the current rule of thumb is 28/36. (monthly mortgage and housing costs not to excede 28% of gross monthly income, and total debt not to exceede 36% of gross monthly income) With this house and current debts that I have I would be at like 26/47.

What does everybody recommend. Is it worth being slightly house poor when you are first starting out to get the bigger house, or is it better to get a smaller house that has a more affordable payment? FYI the difference in payment between the first houses we looked at and the house that we made an offer on is about $150 a month

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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:14 AM
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If you get a smaler house you will have to upgrade sooner. Th egood part of getting the bigger house is that you may be a house poor for a year or so, however, your income will gradualy increase while the house payment will remain same for the fix period of time. It is up to you, if you could afford a bigger house with little sacrifice then do it, however, if you have to commit yourself to a big, life style changing, sacrifice then don't do it.

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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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this is not something that I plan on living in for a very extended period of time, 3/4 years is all

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:16 AM
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let me give you some advise, this is the 5th house i am in.

get something NEW built to start with, you will gain much more money from that resale then buying used and waiting double for it to gain equity!


above all if its your 1st home or not, buy WELL WITHIEN reason of what you can afford, its not about JUST affording a big house or any house, its affording it, OWNING IT and KEEPING IT!

dont get caught in life, just paying a mortage in a emtpy home, no extra cash barely to handle emergency issues, or STILL SAVING MONEY.

do not fall into a trap that ALOT of people set for themselfs.



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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms
this is not something that I plan on living in for a very extended period of time, 3/4 years is all

you wont make shit by the time your done closing cost and selling cost are done, i bet youll be in the hole unless you buy new, and EVEN then i still dont know.

stay with renting then



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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:18 AM
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First things first...their counter offer probably is not their final offer. Do you have room to counter offer below their recent offer?

As far as stretching yourself a little....I think those ratios are manageable as long as you are disciplined with your finances. Plus this "we" person helps since you are not carrying the burden yourself.

Where's this house? Asking price? Did you check out the one on Oxford? Are you sure you don't want to look at that one on Kensington I told you about?
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:21 AM
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You should be careful here because the interest rates should do nothing but go up in the near future. Also long term house values will probably go down as a result. This could mean that you might get stuck in the house that you buy because you would have to take a loss to sell because nobody can afford the higher interest rates. If you want to own, then you should probably move sooner rather than later to get a better interest rate.

As far as price goes, I would not get in too deep right now. Perhaps even look a little further away. It might not be your ideal location, but you can get more for your money that way.
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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:22 AM
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Ken this is Westchester....new construction, if you can find it, is a knockdown and well over $600,000. There's no open land there.

And yeh sure its nice to have a new house and pick all your stuff out, BUT, most areas with new construction still have open space and that means a buyer has a choice between a <5 year old house or a brand new house for a few thousand more down the road. I know Id go for the new house, but selling that 5 year old house is tough in that environment.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys
you wont make shit by the time your done closing cost and selling cost are done, i bet youll be in the hole unless you buy new, and EVEN then i still dont know.

stay with renting then
are you kidding me? new construction in the area he is looking is way out of the question price wise. he's better off buying something older, do the work to fix it up and reselling. rent space to friends in the meantime to cover costs.

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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruz
Ken this is Westchester....new construction, if you can find it, is a knockdown and well over $600,000. There's no open land there.

And yeh sure its nice to have a new house and pick all your stuff out, BUT, most areas with new construction still have open space and that means a buyer has a choice between a <5 year old house or a brand new house for a few thousand more down the road. I know Id go for the new house, but selling that 5 year old house is tough in that environment.
+1

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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:25 AM
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i see your point guys just giving my opinion.

it still comes down to affording for the time being, how long you plan to stay, and end result "how your money is invested"



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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruz
Ken this is Westchester....new construction, if you can find it, is a knockdown and well over $600,000. There's no open land there.

And yeh sure its nice to have a new house and pick all your stuff out, BUT, most areas with new construction still have open space and that means a buyer has a choice between a <5 year old house or a brand new house for a few thousand more down the road. I know Id go for the new house, but selling that 5 year old house is tough in that environment.
Yeah, that's what I thought. If you're looking to flip then it needs to be in a very established area that's starting to boom. I would think that in new subdivisions you would need 7-10 years to be able to sell quickly and make $$$, but I'm only on my second house(and don't plan on moving).

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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Kruz.

This is a house on hull over by Divine Infant, it's a 4 bedroom 2 full bath cape cod with a half finished basment and a 2 1/2 car garage. there most recent offer was there final offer, it came with this quote "if we can't get this for the house, we can't afford to sell it, we need to get this much money for the house, or it doesn't make sense to sell the house" I don't know if they can go any lower and to be honest, I don't know how willing my realtor would be to making another counter offer with less money. Houses like this in westchester are selling on average at 20K more, but this house probably needs 5~7K worth of work (assuming i do the work my self) and I think it could be worth closer to $300K in only a few years

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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:33 AM
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i agree too if your gonna get out that fast, a fixer upper might be the idea, but its still a close call, one would need to check the market, to see what a updated house of the exact home would be in that area, before i dump 50k+ into a home to remodel it.

last thing i want is the house down the block to apprise the same value for the same items, and now im upside down for the short term.



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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms
Kruz.

This is a house on hull over by Divine Infant, it's a 4 bedroom 2 full bath cape cod with a half finished basment and a 2 1/2 car garage. there most recent offer was there final offer, it came with this quote "if we can't get this for the house, we can't afford to sell it, we need to get this much money for the house, or it doesn't make sense to sell the house" I don't know if they can go any lower and to be honest, I don't know how willing my realtor would be to making another counter offer with less money. Houses like this in westchester are selling on average at 20K more, but this house probably needs 5~7K worth of work (assuming i do the work my self) and I think it could be worth closer to $300K in only a few years

knowing that i say 70% go for it, thats cump change for some touch ups, and a 13k short term investment.



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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:37 AM
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Well at least its not that one on Gardner....that's a nice area by DI. 2 baths will work well with your "we" situation.

Your agent is paid handsomely to represent you and whatever you want to bid. If you offer your limit and tell them that is your approval limit and they say no, you could always come back later and rebid.
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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Ken,

I had my realtor do a CMA, the average selling price for houses of this type 3+ bedroom was just a few bucks shy of $280K, they want $270K. with a few thousand on some upgrades and finishing off the basement right this time, and doing some other stuff along with appreciation over 3 years, I think that $300k isn't out of line.

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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms
Kruz.
but this house probably needs 5~7K worth of work (assuming i do the work my self) and I think it could be worth closer to $300K in only a few years
How do you plan on getting this 5-7K to do the work yourself? Might as well look at selling some stuff if you go here. Plan on another grand or so in expenses between now and closing, no matter where you go.

If you have a bitchin' house but can't do anything other than sit in it because you are spending all your cash on mortgage, then what good is it?

I opted to buy much less than a mortgage company offered to loan(~15%). Upside is that I actually have money to do stuff. Downside is the house is lower priced and if I sell now I probably won't break even. If the area WILL go up in value, you might do good to buy this house, but if a less expensive house 2 blocks down goes on the market, I'd look there.

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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 11:52 AM
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I bought my first house at 21. Buy the worse POS in the best neighbourhood you can find. MAke sacrifices! That means buying used bikes instead of a new one every 3 years that's what you do. You do all the work yourself, that will mean, you won't have time for trackdays, or playing in front of the computer, or buying the lastest or greatest toy on the market. Someday I'll find the picture of the current house when I first bought it, and the end result. It didn't happen, by itself I made it happen. Are you willing to make it happen?

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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:02 PM
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rick are you saying your 21? i call bullshit...lmao!



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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:10 PM
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No, but he may be saying it too him 30 years to rehab his current place...
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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:12 PM
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover
How do you plan on getting this 5-7K to do the work yourself? Might as well look at selling some stuff if you go here. Plan on another grand or so in expenses between now and closing, no matter where you go.

If you have a bitchin' house but can't do anything other than sit in it because you are spending all your cash on mortgage, then what good is it?

I opted to buy much less than a mortgage company offered to loan(~15%). Upside is that I actually have money to do stuff. Downside is the house is lower priced and if I sell now I probably won't break even. If the area WILL go up in value, you might do good to buy this house, but if a less expensive house 2 blocks down goes on the market, I'd look there.
i have left money in my budget to do small stuff here and there. That 5-7K would have to happen over the next year and now all right now, remember I plan to live there for a few years. Also, I do have some money left in my budget (about $200 a month) for home upgrades, so while it will be slow, doing the work myself it can happen.

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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickC1957
I bought my first house at 21. Buy the worse POS in the best neighbourhood you can find. MAke sacrifices! That means buying used bikes instead of a new one every 3 years that's what you do. You do all the work yourself, that will mean, you won't have time for trackdays, or playing in front of the computer, or buying the lastest or greatest toy on the market. Someday I'll find the picture of the current house when I first bought it, and the end result. It didn't happen, by itself I made it happen. Are you willing to make it happen?
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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:15 PM
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I cant offer you advice on stetching it, but I think if you are only gonna stay there for four years, that NOT enough time for you to realize a decent appreciation. If you said you were gonna stay there for 7-10 years Id say go for it.

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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:42 PM
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Chris,

5k is nothing amortized over 30 years. The only advice I'll give to you is make sure you have enough "free cash flow" to do the repairs you want/need to do to the home. Otherwise you'll be stuck looking at dead grass and crappy floors till you can afford it.


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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:45 PM
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One more thing......Make sure you're not listening to a realtor or bank as far as what you can afford to do. Budget it yourself for the real picture. They will ALWAYS give you more than you can afford.

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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mladinrep
I cant offer you advice on stetching it, but I think if you are only gonna stay there for four years, that NOT enough time for you to realize a decent appreciation. If you said you were gonna stay there for 7-10 years Id say go for it.

That all depends on the area. Where I live, the house values went up about 30k in one year.

Getting back on topic... I opted to purchase a smaller house to start off with, 3 bedroom ranch. I haven't put much money into my house and I'm still walking away with a good profit. Including my taxes in my mortgage, my payment has been about $900 a month. I've had alot of extra money to do things like Caribbean vacations every year, cars, motorcycles, parts..etc. If I was just starting off again I personally would go the same route. You can always buy a bigger house later when you have a larger salary and can afford a larger payment and still be able to live your life the way you want.

The houses I've been looking at now have $500 - 900 a month taxes. Its freaking unbelievable.

Ken, try building a new house around me now and get taxed 2% to 2.5% on the final sale price of the house. $350,000 house = $8750 per year on taxes. Insane.

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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 01:17 PM
 
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You can do what I'm doing also. An Option ARM loan will get you a lower rate than anything, but can be riskier.
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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-04-2005, 01:21 PM
 
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I say split the difference in price with them......and go for it. 3-4 meals made at home(instead of going out to eat) in one month should cover the extra outlay of mortgage payment.
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