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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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GM in the crapper??

Is GM going down?

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...07/150613.html

GM Plans to Cut 25,000 U.S. Jobs by 2008
By JOHN PORRETTO, AP Auto Writer
2 hours ago


Richard Wagoner, chairman and CEO of General Motors, speaks ...
WILMINGTON, Del. - General Motors Corp. plans to close plants and eliminate 25,000 manufacturing jobs in the United States by 2008 in an attempt to restore profitability at the world's largest automaker, its chairman said Tuesday as he fended off calls for his resignation.

Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner told shareholders at GM's 97th annual meeting in Delaware that the capacity and job cuts should generate annual savings of roughly $2.5 billion. About one out of six jobs in the United States will be eliminated.

Wagoner revealed the cutbacks as he laid out a strategy to invigorate GM's North American operations, its biggest and most troubled, amid lackluster sales of its highly profitable trucks and sport utility vehicles, which have been hurt by high fuel prices.

GM posted a $1.1 billion loss in the first quarter and its U.S. market share has fallen to 25.4 percent from 27 percent a year ago, as customers increasingly are choosing models from Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Co. and other Asian automakers.

The cuts would be on top of earlier reductions that pared GM's U.S. workforce from 177,000 hourly and salaried employees at the end of 2000 to 150,000 at the end of last year, according to figures provided by GM.

"Let me say up front that our absolute top priority is to get our largest business unit back to profitability as soon as possible," said Wagoner, who added that with $20 billion in cash and short-term investments, GM is in no danger of going out of business anytime soon.

"But if we don't fundamentally get at these structural issues - whether it's gee-whiz, exciting products, or the right distribution, or a solid cost structure in every element of business - the risk of continually being weakened over time is real," he said.

Wagoner wouldn't say which plants are in danger of being closed, but David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich., said the most likely targets are several older plants. Those include facilities in Janesville, Wis.; Doraville, Ga.; Oklahoma City and Pontiac, Mich., he said. The Janesville plant was built in 1919 and the Doraville plant was built in 1947. The other two plants were built in the 1970s.

Cole said GM probably won't close plants that have recently undergone costly renovations, such as the plant in Lordstown, Ohio, that recently got $1 billion worth of upgrades.

Disgruntled shareholders, who saw the value of their shares fall to a 10-year low in April, gave Wagoner an earful on Tuesday.

"This company is sick," said James Dollinger, a Buick salesman from Flint, Mich., who angrily told Wagoner he should resign.

Fellow shareholder John Lauve compared the GM leadership to officers aboard the Titanic as it headed for an iceberg. "The Titanic sank because the directors ignored the warnings," said Lauve, who criticized everything from gas gauges in GM vehicles to the company's health-care cards. "We need to excel at the basics."

Fending off such criticism, Wagoner outlined four priorities: increasing spending on new cars and trucks; clarifying the role of each of GM's eight brands; intensifying efforts to reduce costs and improve quality; and continuing to search for ways to reduce skyrocketing health-care expenses.

He noted that health-care expenses add $1,500 to the cost of each GM vehicle. This puts GM at a "significant disadvantage versus foreign-based competitors," Wagoner said, echoing comments made by the Standard and Poor's and Fitch ratings services after both reduced the company's bond rating to "junk" status last month.

Wagoner described as intense the status of ongoing negotiations with the United Auto Workers and other unions on ways to significantly reduce GM's health-care costs. GM's health-care tab for its 1.1 million current and former workers and their families is more than $5 billion a year and rising.

"We have not reached an agreement at this time, and to be honest, I'm not 100 percent that we will," said Wagoner, the CEO since 2000 and chairman since 2003.

To date, the UAW has indicated it won't reopen its contract, which expires in 2007, and agree to pick up a larger share of soaring health-care costs. Messages left Tuesday with the UAW were not returned.

Wagoner said another part of the company's strategy is to make GM's eight brands more distinct from each other. Chevrolet and Cadillac will continue to have full vehicle lineups, he said, but the company's other six brands - GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, Saab and Hummer - will be more tightly focused on niche markets.

"In some cases, such as Pontiac and Buick, it will mean fewer but stronger entries in the future," Wagoner said.

Wagoner said the company also plans to put less emphasis on incentives and focus more effort on selling GM vehicles in top markets like New York, Miami and Los Angeles.

General Motors shares rose 42 cents, or 1.4 percent, to $30.84 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange. That is close to the $31 a share offer made by billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian's for 28 million GM shares that was scheduled to expire on Tuesday.

Wagoner said it was vital for the company to cut costs by improving efficiency at its manufacturing plants. He said plant closings and idlings in recent months will reduce assembly capacity in North America from 6 million vehicles in 2002 to 5 million by the end of this year.

According to the Harbour Report, an annual productivity survey released last week, GM's 30 North American plants operated at an average of 85 percent of their capacity in 2004, compared to an average of 107 percent for Toyota's six North American plants.

GM already shut a factory in Linden, N.J., in April and a factory in Baltimore in May, affecting about 2,000 employees.

---

AP Auto Writer Dee-Ann Durbin in Detroit and Delaware correspondent Randall Chase contributed to this report.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
hahahaha, nice try. Everyone knows men age like wine and women age like milk. It's a scientific fact!!
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 06:38 PM
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all i know is i wish i woulda bought my truck now, with the employee discounts they are giving to regular folks...
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 06:43 PM
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And to think those fuckers just were on the news last week bragging about the new GM plant in China. Don't think the other two of the big three won't be doing the same soon. They love the idea of saving 75% on labor and not paying healthcare and getting around the UAW. Buy American my ass, my next ride will be a Japanese or Korean car, atleast they make those here, oh' the irony......
As the old saying went, as GM goes as goes the country.

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 07:02 PM
 
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if more people bought american, then they wouldn't be needing to cut 25,000 jobs. And GM compensates for the healthcare by increasing the cost of a car.
"He noted that health-care expenses add $1,500 to the cost of each GM vehicle"

This doesn't effect just GM, but also all the companies that are vendors for GM. So other people will either be losing jobs or getting less overtime.

I cant wait till North Korea builds cars, so i can support their nuclear weapons program.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 08:01 PM
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I saw this coming when they went against everything that is american and got rid of all thier rear drive cars and replaced everything with something that looks like a lumina or grand am. I've been saying for years that management over there was hittin the pipe, everyone is finnaly realizing it.




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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolninja
if more people bought american,
What kind of bike do you ride?




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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony
What kind of bike do you ride?
your bike ain't much of an American bike nowadays either...
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 08:17 PM
 
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they still sell rear wheel drive vehicles. Not many thou.

It is easier to assemble a front wheel drive vehicle in the factory. Everything is put on a cradle and lifted up into the car. They can build a car with rwd with the same principle but it would be called a fiero. But do you want people who cant drive already, to be driving a RWD vehicle in the rain or snow.

People rather support a foreign country because they offer a cheaper vehicle. People expect cars to be the same price like they were in the 80s.

Here is a company that went under. Hopefully, they can recover and start selling their product again. They sell automotive lift equipment. They had a hard time competiting with chinese lifts. Chinese lifts sold for few hundred dollars less and came with add ons. Consumers said, wow, a cheap lift that is a POS, that comes with accessories.
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/s...16/story3.html
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 08:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwa
your bike ain't much of an American bike nowadays either...
0wned


I bought mine used. But im not a terrorist because im using less gas then SUV drivers. Like i told Vcook, if the united states had any real motorcycle market then i would own a domestic motorcycle. There isn't no big three with motorcycles. There use to be a lot of companies that built bikes back in the day but a lot of them died.

Cars and motorcycles are not the only thing that america builds. Buying other american goods n services helps this economy stay strong. Eventually, the only jobs left will be the truck drivers that distribute asian goods.
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolninja
if more people bought american, then they wouldn't be needing to cut 25,000 jobs. And GM compensates for the healthcare by increasing the cost of a car.
"He noted that health-care expenses add $1,500 to the cost of each GM vehicle"

This doesn't effect just GM, but also all the companies that are vendors for GM. So other people will either be losing jobs or getting less overtime.

I cant wait till North Korea builds cars, so i can support their nuclear weapons program.
I would buy a GM car if it lasted more than 5 years and didn't fall apart as soon as it comes off the lot. My last 2 GM cars were crap, and my GM work truck isn't any better. So far my last 2 Dodges lasted, and I hope this one does last.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
hahahaha, nice try. Everyone knows men age like wine and women age like milk. It's a scientific fact!!
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolninja


I bought mine used. But im not a terrorist because im using less gas then SUV drivers.


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy"- Benjamin Franklin

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
hahahaha, nice try. Everyone knows men age like wine and women age like milk. It's a scientific fact!!
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 09:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I would buy a GM car if it lasted more than 5 years and didn't fall apart as soon as it comes off the lot. My last 2 GM cars were crap, and my GM work truck isn't any better. So far my last 2 Dodges lasted, and I hope this one does last.

I never had any problem with the GMs that I own. I have one that is 6 years old, bought new, that is giving me no problems. Sames goes with the other ones that I own, currently new. Only things that need replacement are the brakes, besides oil changes.

Dependable transportation for me. I will still buy Ford or Chevy no matter what. Even a Tucker car.
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 10:24 PM
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gm has never failed me yet, even my 16 year old camaro still starts every day and runs strong as hell, with the biggest "failure" being a starter awhile ago, just maintence, be good to your car and it will be good to you, and all my experiences with imported cars have been negative...01 jetta vr6 POS, every electrical component failed, usually taking many things out at once, it was towed to the dealer where it was traded in. And the new celica that replaced it makes strange sounds, and has had multiple no start conditions. UGH i wish gm were doin better, they will be back, i hope, friggin health care started all this, and the new mustang was a kick in the balls, even i like it ,and i hate mustangs


Josh

EDIT: one more thing, i can figure out how a gm works, and have the tools to fix it
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 10:32 PM
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GM is failing because they still think people are going to buy their cars that rattle, rust, aren't reliable and get bad gas mileage just because it's an American company.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-07-2005, 11:08 PM
 
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Quote:
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GM is failing because they still think people are going to buy their cars that rattle, rust, aren't reliable and get bad gas mileage just because it's an American company.
wow, what an ignorant statement. I guess iron and other metals dont oxide. Missed chemistry in highschool?

Domestic cars get bad gas mileage? Where did you pull that fact from?

I'd rather have a motor that works then a Toyota motor that sludges up and eventually locks up due to oil starvation.
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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolninja
wow, what an ignorant statement. I guess iron and other metals dont oxide. Missed chemistry in highschool?

Domestic cars get bad gas mileage? Where did you pull that fact from?

I'd rather have a motor that works then a Toyota motor that sludges up and eventually locks up due to oil starvation.
There's a reason people always say, "...and it's a Honda". I've owned enough domestic cars to support my broad generalization whether you like my opinion or not.
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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 12:20 AM
 
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Quote:
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There's a reason people always say, "...and it's a Honda". I've owned enough domestic cars to support my broad generalization whether you like my opinion or not.
that statement means

"yo homes, i put 70,000 bucks into my honda and now i can hang with stangs"


You own enough domestics. So how do you know asian metal doesn't rust. Is the periodic chart different on that side of the world?
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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 12:42 AM
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Is that what that statement means, I've feel mislead this whole time. And yes, asian metal is made by aliens.
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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 01:07 AM
 
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GM is being assaulted on so many fronts. Unfortunately, reforms are needed throughout the American economy to ensure the long term health of key businesses. The goddamn unions have strangled American business. They outlived their usefulness a long time ago. They were originally put in place to protect workers rights but now it seems that they do a particularly good job of protecting the workers right to be lazy. We really need to put some serious labor reforms into place. The health care costs are insane too. Health care seems to lead to issues of tort reform - a lot of doctors are finding it too expensive to do business thus fewer doctors and higher overall costs. There are so many other issues but these are just a few - it's a shame it has to hit a mainstay such as GM so hard.

I've never owned a Japanese car and don't ever plan to. It's a shame that more people aren't compelled to buy American. I've owned almost exclusively GM and Chrysler and have never had any major problems. I've driven a couple of Japanese products and mile for mile I can't say that they fare any better with rust, reliability, gas mileage, and rattles than their American counterparts.

About the why do I support American products so much and own several Japanese products....
The minute an American company can come out and offer a product that can perform and cost close to that of a Japanese product I'd be happy to buy it. Sorry, Buell isn't close yet.
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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 04:59 AM
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As someone who does live in a GM town (I'm 2 miles from the plant that builds Tahoes and Suburbans), I see and hear alot of this in teh news and from people who work there.

The healthcare of the employees isnt the big reason they are in trouble (although its not helping). One of the reasons is the employees dont pay any part of the premiums at all. ALso retiree benefits are HUGE. With most their current workforce (here at least) about to retire within 5 yrs (last mass hiring was 94), GM is gonna pay ALOT out. Did you know that when they are down (like they were for 11 weeks here due to very slow sales on large SUV's) they get 95% of their pay from GM anyways?

Now for another problem with GM. Designs that really dont spark any interest from consumers. Other than the Caddy div, teh designs have been pretty damn generic.

Rumors around here (Janesville) are that GM might be closing this plant within 2 yrs even though they (supposedly) got teh contract for the GMT900 series SUV (tahoe, Sub, Yukons. I seen pics of it. They will look like a huge Equinox). Also Kia is rumored to have some interest in this plant if GM closes it. If GM closes this plant, Lear Seating (they make the seats for suburbans and tahoes), SSI (they make the antilock brake parts for GM. They wont close, but will go into severe layoffs), JT warehouse (they are teh ones who bring teh parts to teh plant Just in Time setup) and some other related companies will either close or lay off people. This could effect nearly 5,000 jobs locally (GM is about 3000 of those, lear 1200 or so).

GM's quality has gone up in teh past few years, but not enough to really sway people from Honda, Toyota or Nissan. The head honchos really never took them as a threat until the last 5 -10 years, but then it was pretty much too late. For every step GM takes forwards, the japanese companies take 2.

Will the government save GM like it did Chrysler in the late 70's? Unknown, but I think they might. But this will be a very strong wakeup call to the snotty GM employees we have here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolninja
if more people bought american, then they wouldn't be needing to cut 25,000 jobs. And GM compensates for the healthcare by increasing the cost of a car.
"He noted that health-care expenses add $1,500 to the cost of each GM vehicle"

This doesn't effect just GM, but also all the companies that are vendors for GM. So other people will either be losing jobs or getting less overtime.

I cant wait till North Korea builds cars, so i can support their nuclear weapons program.
GM has also given retirees lefetime healthcare as well (at one point, coverage for a worker's family...including grown children!!!)

I don't buy (no pun intended) the whole "buy american" mentality. The japanese were the best thing to happen to the big 3 in term of "they better get their shit together" because they were churning out crap and the american consumer was just supposed to take it. When I go and buy a car I don't care if it supports someone who negotiated a $40/hour wage or lives in a right to work state. I base my purchase on what is the best car (or any product for that matter) for my money and right now it happens to be Toyota (built in Kentucky so does it classify as American???) When the big 3 and the UAW can come out with a product that I happen to like and is priced competitively, maybe I'll take a look, but for now I'll be sticking with the Japanese.

Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of shit. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 07:51 AM
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Hey Fieorospeeder, If GM could build a car of the same caliber as the japanese or europeon cars I'm guessing they would but the fact that they havent leads me to believe that they can not do so. I'll take a lexus over a cadillac any day. the caddi's rattle, wislt from wind noise and have sub par suspesion. they dont even compare to the build quality and feel of a lexus or BMW. You can sit there all day and tell me how your 16 year old GM car is still running or however old it is, I dont care I wouldnt drive it anyway since its a 16 year old car,, I'll take my new infiniti or lexus instead.




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Any bets on how long til GM announces the opening of their state of the art manufacturing facility in Mexico?



Viva la NAFTA!
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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 11:12 AM
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Any bets on how long til GM announces the opening of their state of the art manufacturing facility in Mexico?



Viva la NAFTA!
I thought they already had one??? or is that one of the other companies? If not it wouldnt surprise me. This thread is the first I'm hearing aout them opening a plant in china also. for that fact alone GM will never get another cent of my money. Fuck China and the commi horse it rode in on.




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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony
I thought they already had one??? or is that one of the other companies? If not it wouldnt surprise me. This thread is the first I'm hearing aout them opening a plant in china also. for that fact alone GM will never get another cent of my money. Fuck China and the commi horse it rode in on.
I'm sure they are already running in Mexico, I know they're running in Canada (LOng before NAFTA me thinks) but when a plant closes in the states, and they return to profitability somehow, you can bet your ass they're not going to open new plants in the states. From land to building to labor, the dollar just goes too far down there. I think they said they were paying $30 a day for labor.

I toured a Navistar plant in Mexico, and it was freaky. They literally fill up some busses in town and haul the people to the plant, that's the crew for the day. The next day, you could have a totally different crew.

When we got our first trucks from that plant, they were plain fucked up. Two different seats, holes in the doors, mismatched paint.
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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 11:39 AM
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Tell me about it, our workers cant compete any more, we are too expensive. and considering every companies main concern is thier stock price they have to go the cheapest route. If they dont wall street nails them to the wall. if they do try to go cheap and please wall street the unions nail them to the wall. its waaaaay fucked up.

I think unions had good intentions, but they have jacked up the price of labor so much which has in turn jacked up the price of goods so that you need a union wage to aford the products, now its too late to turn back unless we all at one time drop the price of our goods and drop the union pay scales so people make less but can keep the same quality of life. its all a catch 22. at least that the way I see it, but I'm not by any means an econ major, so I see it from laymens eyes.




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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony
Tell me about it, our workers cant compete any more, we are too expensive. and considering every companies main concern is thier stock price they have to go the cheapest route. If they dont wall street nails them to the wall. if they do try to go cheap and please wall street the unions nail them to the wall. its waaaaay fucked up.

I think unions had good intentions, but they have jacked up the price of labor so much which has in turn jacked up the price of goods so that you need a union wage to aford the products, now its too late to turn back unless we all at one time drop the price of our goods and drop the union pay scales so people make less but can keep the same quality of life. its all a catch 22. at least that the way I see it, but I'm not by any means an econ major, so I see it from laymens eyes.

I agree Tony, the unions have fucked it up. I think where they fucked up was in the wage department. Look at United Airlines-they are going out of business, albeit slowly. $60 an hour mechanics? The unions (among others) could save them but won't. And that's all about money and political clout.

When unions first started forming in the 20's they were great. Back then, when you got hurt on a job they just fired you, or just paved right over your dead ass and unions stopped that. With all the labor laws on the books now, we don't really have that fear, so wtf are they really protecting now? Ever seen an electrician wait three hours for a carpenter to move a sheet of plywood? I have.
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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 11:54 AM
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My honda is built in the usa, cya later gm!!

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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 11:55 AM
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by the way my next car will more then likely be an Acura/honda or the new "M" infiniti!! , I still say to this day, my accord is the best dam car ive ever owned!!!

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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-08-2005, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimGoFast
by the way my next car will more then likely be an Acura/honda or the new "M" infiniti!! , I still say to this day, my accord is the best dam car ive ever owned!!!
Same here, I've owned numerous american cars, now that I have owned an infiniti, I will never go back.




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Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

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