F1 Race - Indy ???? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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F1 Race - Indy ????

What the hell did I just watch? Not sure where to start...discuss...

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 03:12 PM
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 03:16 PM
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i guess michelin woould not let there drivers race because of the one turn to the back strait was to fast, so they wanted a chicane built at moments notice or they were not racing. well so no chicane was built and they didnt race, all except bridgestone drivers which was all of 6. its all a bunch of BS

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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thats the jist of it..

14 Michelin drivers took the grid....took the 1 formation lap and then pulled into the garage area where their team parked the cars. Its a complete slap at the 150,000 or so fans that bought tickets, hotels etc to see this live.
I heard that Michelin is allowed to bring 2 sets of tires to use. The other one was a hard compound that they knew wouldnt be competitive so they didnt bother. They should be penalized by F1 BIG TIME. Theres already talks that this will impact whether F1 comes back to Indy next year. Ive heard they were looking for a 2nd US stop so maybe the decision got a whole lot easier today


To the fans that threw bottles and crap on the crap during the race... you friggin losers. Endanger the racers and teams that DID show up prepared to race. SPEED has 1 guy dead balls on close up on film going into a garbage can , taking out a water bottle and throwing it over the fence. He may be surprised when he gets home to see himself on his tape. He may wants to stay somewhere else for a while too...he'll be having visitors

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 03:56 PM
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Michilen had a batch of bad tires that they acknowledged and overnighted a new set of tires for everyone to use for the race but because of the FIA gay ass rule of only one set of tires per race, they were not allowed to put the corrected tiree on the car. It was not safe to run with the faulty tires so they all forfeited but of course Ferrari stayed out.

F1 used to be cool, now it has become gay and like NASCAR.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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why should FIA have to change the rules quick to fit Michelins needs? Its the same for everyone....they were not properly prepared for the race....and let down about 250 million people worldwide that tune into F1 races.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-19-2005, 11:08 PM
 
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michelin did fuck up but at the same time ferrari could have done something for their fans and went along with everyone else... What kind of a race was it when you are racing against yourself? i understand that they were prepped but they needed to go with everyone else and fight the FIA...
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:05 AM
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Why should the teams be penalized for not racing?
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 01:41 AM
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everyone can say "they should have been prepared" but GUESS WHAT! SHIT HAPPENS! and FIA need to understand that!! If not then there will be NO FANS and that means NO RACING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 09:31 AM
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It is a huge BS. Why would Ferrari and Bridgestone who spent time and money to develop a tire to suit the Indy track agree to have a chicane inserted. Who will repay Bridgestone for the waste development of such a tire. Michelin had 5 years to study the track and develop a tire that can last the whole weekend. Do not forget it was the Michelin teams that requsted the tire rule change. Ferrari and Bridgstone work hard for the last 9 races to develop a tire that will last. Anyone that follows the race knows that Bridgestone had a disadvantage the whole season and once they start catching up Michelin is pissed off? F--k them!
It is not true that teams could not change tires before the race. F1 and FIA gave them an option to change tires before the race and get penalized by moving them 10 spots down the grid. Considering that 14 cars would have been penalized it is not a big sacrifice. Considering that Michelin heats up faster and it is generaly a faster tire they could have made up the difference in 6 laps, but they did not want tyo. F1 and FIA also gave them an option to change tires during the race as their rules allow reasonable safety concerns to be considered but yet Michelin did not agree. I said F--k them. I am never buying a Michelin in my life. I spen more then $500 to go and see the greates machines in the world race and what did I get: froint seat ticket to Ferrari Cup. If it wasn't for the BMW and Porsche races it would have been wasted day.
F1 and FIA should take all the points occured so far away from all Michelin teams.

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 09:44 AM
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Here is a good read.


Indy correspondence between Michelin and FIA


More letters.

Michelin FIA letter

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 10:37 AM
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FIA is blaming Michelin and I can't say I disagree. This was the most bizarre F1 race in the history of the sport and it became that over a pissing match.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/story_20016.shtml

What I fail to understand is why the Michelin shod teams all chose to forfeit all possibility of collecting priceless driver's and constructor's points in favor of competing with another tire.

Since the 1st 8 positions pay points, I have to think Renault, McLaren and BMW would have all scored substantial points, even after accepting a penalized starting position.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 10:57 AM
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I believe Michelin from a marketing perspective did not want their tires to look inferior to Bridgestone. In one of the letters they were informed that they can change the left rear tire as amny times as deemed necessery due to safety concerns without being penalized. I am never buying Michelin tires ever again. F--k them!

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:21 AM
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From what I understand, about the tires flown in, Michelin teams could have changed to the new tires during their pitstops. If that's the case, and that was the compromise, they should have each run one lap, pitted for tires, and moved on. The source of the report was David Hobbs who called into Wind Tunnel on Speed last night.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 11:26 AM
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Here's a summarized version.

Michelin "Our tires can't handle this course. Change it so we can win."
FIA "F-off Bridgestone can make I tire to handle the course. Don't blame use for your crappy tires"

Michelin "Fine we'll go sit in a corner and be babies about it"

You can change a tire mid race if the tire is deemed unsafe. They should have ran the race changed the tires let the FIA look at them and make a decision then.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 12:45 PM
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Ok, all ya'll here's the down low

Michelin did screw up. No one debates that. And rules are made to be followed. But does the bloddy FIA and arrogant Ferrari forget that they are in the ENTERTAINMENT business!! Politics aside, penalize everybody, give them no points, but just to point fingers and say, too bad you dont have a good tire, looks very narrow-minded to me.

All the Michelin racers said they really wanted to race and didnt care about the points for this race , because they knew the effect it was going to have.

Some of you are right, why should Ferrari and Bridgestone compromise when they have invested R&D into producing a tire that works for them at this circuit. But get off your high pedestal and think about the sport as a whole. That is my problem with Ferrari, they've always regarded their well-being over the sport as a whole.

And let's not go to the point that why should the FIA Race Director (Whiting) bend the rules for one manufacturer. Recall Brazil 2003 when heavy rain was falling at the start of the race. Michelin came prepared with full wet tires while Bridgestone (who were give the choice to bring a dry and wet compound that they thought fit for the race, just like Michelin for Indy) decided to bring their excellent Intermediates. Well, guess what happened, in regards to safety of the Bridgestone-shod teams, the race director, ran the first few laps of the race behind the safety car until enough water was cleared from the track . If the race was run as the rules state so, the Michelin teams with their full wets would have gained a massive lead on the Bridgestone teams and perhaps Kimi would have won instead of Fisichella. The Bridgestone teams could just have run at a slower pace if they felt not safe. How dumb! and this is what the FIA suggested the Michelin teams to do. 'Please come in if you see the tire start to fail.' What happened if the failure started at turn 12 and bang, driver's in the wall at turn 13. And Mosley goes on about safety.

Yeah for the FIA and their fair application of the rules for all teams

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 01:47 PM
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Jammin,
Running a few laps behind a pace care and changing the track layout are 2 different things.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 02:50 PM
 
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Jammin,

The WWE = ENTERTAINMENT

F1 = A sports COMPETITION

Racing is all about using technology and skill to gain an advantage and WIN. In this case The Michelin shod teams technology failed them, so why should the other teams who came prepared have to be penalized. We do not need socialism in F1 racing...NASCAR is close enough.

Although it sucks and I took a trip to Indy yesterday for NOTHING!!! I can't be selfish and expect the rules to be changed, just to make it a good race. I've see Ferrari run away with the race before with a full field and it happened again yesterday with only six cars...tough $hit!
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Funk
Although it sucks and I took a trip to Indy yesterday for NOTHING!!! I can't be selfish and expect the rules to be changed, just to make it a good race.
Well it may not be for nothing. CART is going to allow the F1 tickets to be used at the Cleveland race next week, if you're able to go or give them to someone.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
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Well it may not be for nothing. CART is going to allow the F1 tickets to be used at the Cleveland race next week, if you're able to go or give them to someone.
Luckily I was drinking at a wedding reception Sat. night and woke up later Sunday morning than planned, so I was late heading to Indy. By the time I got off my bike and walked to the track the "race" just started and I heard the boo's. So I did not buy a ticket from a scalper as planned. I just took a nice scenic ride to Indy and back.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 05:36 PM
I'd rather be railing :)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrash
Jammin,
Running a few laps behind a pace care and changing the track layout are 2 different things.
I agree that adding the chicane could have brought on more problems, without proper testing - having teams change race strategy, tire pressures, etc.. I dont see how this the best solution that all the 'Gang of 9 teams' decided on.

I was trying to point out the inconsistency of the FIA. The safety car in Brazil happened because a manufactuerer messed up (as was in Indy). There the FIA found a resolution to make the race go ahead. Everybody's happy, well sort of. Here at indy, they wouldn't even listen to any suggestions. They just said, you messed up, you pay for it. Do you see where Im going.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-20-2005, 05:43 PM
I'd rather be railing :)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Funk
Jammin,

The WWE = ENTERTAINMENT

F1 = A sports COMPETITION

Racing is all about using technology and skill to gain an advantage and WIN. In this case The Michelin shod teams technology failed them, so why should the other teams who came prepared have to be penalized. We do not need socialism in F1 racing...NASCAR is close enough.

Although it sucks and I took a trip to Indy yesterday for NOTHING!!! I can't be selfish and expect the rules to be changed, just to make it a good race. I've see Ferrari run away with the race before with a full field and it happened again yesterday with only six cars...tough $hit!
And tell me how sports competitions aren't really entertainment, the Olympics included. Dont get me wrong, I love these sporting events, but the organizers are getting too full of themselves and their rules. Ok, following rules is a good thing, but dont be partial here and there.

I agree that we dont need socialism in F1, we're hooked onto the high level of competition and technology, but did the FIA and that arrogant team look ahead and see how much damage their decision would cause in this country and around the world. There's talks of sponsors of the seven teams demanding compensation for lost adverstising and even TV networks around the world demanding compensation, let's not forget the fans.

On a side note, I was sitting next to a guy who flew from France to watch the race and support Renault. He called back home and heard that the TV network there stopped broadcasting the race after a few laps and put on a movie in protest. Now, that's not fair to the Ferrari fans, but... serves them right for following such a team.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 12:07 AM
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 12:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin

I agree that we dont need socialism in F1, we're hooked onto the high level of competition and technology, but did the FIA and that arrogant team look ahead and see how much damage their decision would cause in this country and around the world. There's talks of sponsors of the seven teams demanding compensation for lost adverstising and even TV networks around the world demanding compensation, let's not forget the fans.

On a side note, I was sitting next to a guy who flew from France to watch the race and support Renault. He called back home and heard that the TV network there stopped broadcasting the race after a few laps and put on a movie in protest. Now, that's not fair to the Ferrari fans, but... serves them right for following such a team.
Sometimes you just have to stand up for what you beleive in and enforce the rules. I was not happy with what happened, but if they would have made the change in the rules then they would have opened a HUGE can of worms. If someone were to be injured or killed in an accident involving the chicane the liability would be huge...especially here in the states. Also, you would want Ferrari and Bridgestone to pull the same trick later in the season during a grand prix where the championship is on the line and the Michelin cars have a huge advantage after qualifying.....THINK ABOUT IT! You know FErrari will do whatever it takes to win and the USGP would not be the only time the rules would be challenged.

The French just stopped coverage because Michelin was a FRENCH company and they did not want to hear them get blasted or be embarassed by their cars not being on the track!
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 12:26 PM
 
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I was at the race and thought it was crap. It was my first F1 race and it will be my last. Did not spend over $200 to see 14 cars pull off after the warm up lap and only see 6 cars racing. Which only 2 of the cars were actually racing each other.
Imagine if something like this were to happen overseas. I think the people would have stormed the track.
I only spent a couple hundred bucks, but what about the people the spent thousands of dollars to fly over here?
All aside, thoughs cars are f-ing bad ass. Load and fast.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 04:22 PM
I'd rather be railing :)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Funk
Also, you would want Ferrari and Bridgestone to pull the same trick later in the season during a grand prix where the championship is on the line and the Michelin cars have a huge advantage after qualifying.....THINK ABOUT IT! You know FErrari will do whatever it takes to win and the USGP would not be the only time the rules would be challenged.

The French just stopped coverage because Michelin was a FRENCH company and they did not want to hear them get blasted or be embarassed by their cars not being on the track!
Yeah, you're right, Ferrari and Bridgestone would whine and make sure it happened for them, as well. Well, let's hope they dont win anything else this year and get dethroned, but what a massive jump this has given them.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 05:04 PM
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I was there Thursday through Sunday. Friday and Saturday were great and Sunday was not. I am a huge Schumi fan and Ferrari fan but I also like Webber, Fisi and the Fin.

But to put any blame on anybody besides Michelin and the 7 dwarfs is silly. Rules are rules and they are there for specific reasons. The fact that some teams wanted to put a chicane in turn is the silliest solution I heard put forward. The chicane would never have been tested by any team, tire, car or driver and they deemed that to be safer.??? If these 7 team bosses seem to work so well together on sitting out a race then why couldn't the 7 teams agree to a mph limit for turn 13 for themselves. Even capping the mph on turn 13 there is no way the Jordans or Mindardis could have kept up with them on the straight or the other 12 turns.

Fact is on June 29th in Paris the 7 teams and Michelin have to report to FIA on why they trashed the USGP. On the bottom of the letter sent to the teams and Michelin it said they could bring any legal counsel they deem necessary.

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 05:35 PM
I'd rather be railing :)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrcrx
I was at the race and thought it was crap. It was my first F1 race and it will be my last. Did not spend over $200 to see 14 cars pull off after the warm up lap and only see 6 cars racing. Which only 2 of the cars were actually racing each other.
Imagine if something like this were to happen overseas. I think the people would have stormed the track.
I only spent a couple hundred bucks, but what about the people the spent thousands of dollars to fly over here?
All aside, thoughs cars are f-ing bad ass. Load and fast.
Dont get put off by it, at least watch the other races on Speed and you might still like it

As I was storming out to the car corral before the first lap, I walked over the pedestrian bridge on the back straight away and the cars screaming underneath you was quite a thrill. You could totally tell the difference between the three teams in terms of their engine braking. The Ferrari did sound sweet. On my way back to the podium, to boo the winners, I stood on the bridge for a while and relished that sweet V10 .

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 08:55 PM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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But to put any blame on anybody besides Michelin and the 7 dwarfs is silly.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-22-2005, 02:47 PM
I'd rather be railing :)
 
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Here's a nice write-up from James Allen, a reporter for ITV-F1 in England. He's summarizes the whole US GP event and gives a lot of good insight.

The best part:
"How close did the Sunday morning meeting come to finding a solution?
... If you’d had a dozen middle-aged women in there, the problem would have been sorted in 20 minutes."

"Was the Indy farce really about tyres or is it part of the manufacturers vs FIA/Bernie/Ferrari battle?
You bet it is. The war between the manufacturers on the one side and Bernie, Max and Ferrari on the other has been getting increasingly savage in recent months.
Michelin’s cock-up merely provided the political opportunity for the most high profile power-play in the war so far. What happened in Indy was, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, “The end of the beginning.”
We have been heading for a showdown since the signing of the “new” Concorde Agreement by Ferrari, Bernie and the FIA in February.
Frank Williams warned at the time that there would be ‘confrontations’ during the year. There have been several off track confrontations already.
Sadly Indy was the first occasion on which it spilled over and affected what happens on the track. It may not be the last."

"What role did Jordan and Minardi play in this?
This is the most interesting aspect of the story for me. They held the key really, because if they had held solid with the “Michelin seven”, then there is no way Ferrari would have gone out there alone to race and something would have been sorted out."

"Is this the end of F1 in America?
The Americans were already very angry about the Schumacher shuffle at the end of the 2002 race, which handed victory to Barrichello. The Speedway has not built its reputation over the last 100 years by confusing the public and cheating them out of a show. Even though everyone knows that the 2002 scandal and last Sunday’s farce were not the fault of the circuit, they did happen there and will always be part of what is otherwise a magnificent history.
The management will be concerned that F1 has come along and tarnished the Indy brand and I don’t think they will be very forgiving."

"So who’s to blame for what we saw in Indy?
Well in the first instance it is Michelin of course. They ignored the explicit FIA instructions, repeated by Mosley after the Nurburgring, to ensure that at least one of their tyre options at each event should be safe for qualifying and the race.
Beyond that I think that all the key players in F1 must take a share of the responsibility, because through their egotism and selfishness over a long period of time they have created a situation where all trust between them has been destroyed.
It’s like the Israelis and the Palestinians. You just can’t get them to see a bigger picture and start to trust each other. So that creates a vacuum, which is exploited by those who are intent on wrecking the sport we all love.


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