MSF vs private sector - Chicagoland Sportbikes
Chicagoland Sportbikes
 
Open Forum This forum is for all off-topic discussion.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
MSF vs private sector

Quote:
Originally Posted by WITMAN
the private sector is taking this away from the state which will allow more people access to actuall education. I like the msf program. I have seen first hand how many people were willing to shell out because it was much faster and flexible and allowed spur of the moment participation. it is a sign of the times also i saw how many people who wanted to take msf and could not get in. it is a problem and at least there is now a solution.
whit
How will it allow more people to get education if people either dont have the money to pay for it, or simply not willing to spend 300+ for it. I hear it all the time from people coming from WI to take MSF class to avoid paying if I am not mistaking over $400.00.

You have seen first hand people willing to shell out money for this school? I have seen more people doing other wise. Just because someone is willing to pay you a sticker price does not mean everyone will or can. Biger problem is MSF does not advertise its classes as agresivly as private sector.

faster and flexible? how is it more faster and more flexible? All I know is from talking to people who took the private school and was promised one on one, they did not really get that one on one.

people having hard time getting into MSF classes is because we do not have enough facilitiess and sometimes short on instructors. Also, I see more and more people bitching about not been able to get in and when I ask them what they did to get in all they tell me is they try to sign up and classes were filled up and they just give up. every class I teach I have people walk in every time. In August we had situations where we were coming really close to canceling the class for the weekend because there weren't enough students to run the class. Yes, there are regulations that dictate that there must be x number of students. Business rules.

Bottom line. If you give something for free people will take it. that is what MSF trying to accomplish. And I am doing my part in giving it back to the community by teaching at MSF. Can I be making more money at the private sector, probably. But I know there are more people that can't afford private sector that I am willing to get less money to provide them with what they need.

I am also tired of people who have nothing to do with MSF keep knocking it in the gutter every chance they get. It is a great program. It is providing great service to the community. Does it have its issue? Sure it does. but over all it produces more positive then negative. People in the program are mostly great folks who have tons of integrity and dedication and that is what makes it great.

I had a post in the Employment section earlier this year, what happend to it? MSF was is looking for instructors all the time. MSF is looking for range aids all the time. I think there were at least 2 people that became MSF instructor after I got them in contact with the program. if anyone interested to become an MSF instructor hit me up.

Sorry for the rant. It just hits too close to home.

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms
well first off, I would love to teach MSF. I truely believe that it's the proper to start to the life long experience that is motorcycling. That being said, I would almost prefer to teach at a class that charges because you are more likely to get people that are going to take the class seriously. Also, anytime you involve the govt you run the risk of screwing it up. If I were to get the opportunity to teach the MSF, I would take the opportunity to teach at either Ride Chicago or the state. I would like to get more information on both enviroments.

Cougar could you put me in contact with somebody that could give me the ins and outs for teaching in the MSF state run program?


Let's talk about students and their dedication towards learning. People in my classes at MSF are all very dedicated to learning. 95% of them there to learn and not just to get a paper for DMV. I really think that moeny factor is non-existent here.

You are correct that once you involve goverment you are taking a chance or getting screwed. But that is the price you have to pay for providing free service. Do you think I am happy to take sexual harrasment and integrity training because I teach MSF? Heck no, but I do it because it is required for me to teach MSF. And since I have firm believes that this program is great and very beneficial to the public I am willing to make sacrifices.

If you are serius about teaching I will get you in contact with program director and get you going. I will try to be at Strats today to answer more questions if anyone is interested.

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:31 AM
The Victim Newbie
 
clearwaterms's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Westchester, IL
Posts: 7,384
Location: Westchester, IL
Sportbike: 2007 mountain bike
Years Riding: just started
How you found us: svrider.com
           
Send a message via AIM to clearwaterms Send a message via MSN to clearwaterms Send a message via Yahoo to clearwaterms
Alex,

I would be interested in learning more about becomming an instructor for next season. I would like to speak to somebody regarding the class, could you please forward me the information at [email protected]?

Thanks

Chris

<-- Chris

turn the bars left and go right; that just isn't right
clearwaterms is offline  
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 08:36 AM
BEER!
 
Grover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 5,970
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Sportbike: '01 SV650S (Pokey!) '02 Honda CR125 (Blockhead)
Years Riding: 5
How you found us: SBN
           
Send a message via AIM to Grover
Alex, can you just give a brief walk through of what you have to do to be an instructor? I know just the basics...
Take MSF course.
Take Advanced MSF course.
Complete instructor training..where's that training held at? How long is it?

-Chris

NESBA/CCS #142
AIM: GroverSV650S
Dirtbikes are not submarines
Grover is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover
Alex, can you just give a brief walk through of what you have to do to be an instructor? I know just the basics...
Take MSF course.
Take Advanced MSF course.
Complete instructor training..where's that training held at? How long is it?

-Chris
Sure can.

In order to become and MSF certified instructor one needs to complete 85 hours of training. I know I know. But it is like any other job. It is accomplished in 5 weekends I think.

I think if you have taken BRC you wont need to take it, if not then yes.

No need to take an Advanced course.

Course generaly held at 3 locations CLC (College of Lake County), COD College of DuPage, and RVC Rock Valley College.

Once you complete those 85 hours of training you are all set to go.

For those that are interested you can contact program director Bob Ritter at [email protected] or by calling 815-753-6932 ext 6

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 12:02 PM
Pathological Thrill Seekr
 
Deuces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pedaling my ass off!
Posts: 5,196
Location: Pedaling my ass off!
Sportbike: Trek Marlin
Years Riding: Noob
How you found us: Followed the fast guys
           
Send a message via AIM to Deuces
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar8000
Sure can.

In order to become and MSF certified instructor one needs to complete 85 hours of training. I know I know. But it is like any other job. It is accomplished in 5 weekends I think.

I think if you have taken BRC you wont need to take it, if not then yes.

No need to take an Advanced course.

Course generaly held at 3 locations CLC (College of Lake County), COD College of DuPage, and RVC Rock Valley College.

Once you complete those 85 hours of training you are all set to go.

For those that are interested you can contact program director Bob Ritter at [email protected] or by calling 815-753-6932 ext 6

NOTE!! My Instructor class had a couple of wednesday nights we met. You need to attend ALL sessions for completion! They also set aside a class just for the Instructor Prep so you can take the BRC if you have not completed it in the last 12 months.

Ride smart... stupid hurts.

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't...

Godspeed 788!!! We miss you!
Deuces is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 12:29 PM
The Victim Newbie
 
clearwaterms's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Westchester, IL
Posts: 7,384
Location: Westchester, IL
Sportbike: 2007 mountain bike
Years Riding: just started
How you found us: svrider.com
           
Send a message via AIM to clearwaterms Send a message via MSN to clearwaterms Send a message via Yahoo to clearwaterms
for those of you that are rider coaches, I have a few questions...

how often do you guys teach? Is the experience worth it? I assume when you teach a class you would teach it from beginning to end, from the first thursday evening all the way through sat and sun. What kind of time commitment does each class require?

<-- Chris

turn the bars left and go right; that just isn't right
clearwaterms is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
Chris,

I love teaching. Classes starts on Friday night for 4 hours and then Saturday and Sunday. It is at times over whelming but most definetely rewording in more ways then none. You can decide hoew many classes to teach. I usualy do anywhere between 7 and 10 classes a year. I use those classes as my practice sessions. yes, I still practice on the parking lot that is how I can run dohnuts around guys I love human interactions. I really get a kick from seeing people go from zero to be able to ride a bike. Granted it is on a secured parking lot, but still.

It does put a HUGE dent in your riding time and your family afairs. But if by me being there I save at least 1 person from killing him self it is worth it.

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys
isnt that another reason more and more state locations are closing down, and more and more classes are being reduced? i think thats what i heard not to long ago.
Ken, this is simply not true. we are actually expanding number of classes every year. How do you think we are able to get more instructors?

people complaine there are not enough Advanced classes, but they do not know the reason for it. It is very simple. we, MSF, would be glad to have those every weekend, but fact is simple. People that sign up for those are rather be riding if it is a nice day then come to the class, or seat home if it is raining. We have hard time filling those classes up. This is why there are only few of them are offered during the year.

If you know of some company that has a big lot and willing to let us use it along with the facilities for FREE, please let us know. we are not for profit, so we can not afford to pay anyone for the facility. Money that we collect for the class, $20.00 as a registration that youcan get back, don't come even close to covering the expenses as is.

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 03:32 PM
Joe Momma...
 
JoJo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oak Park
Posts: 3,822
Location: Oak Park
Sportbike: None
Years Riding: 1,2,4,5 count d'z rocks biatch!
How you found us: member
           
Send a message via AIM to JoJo
I would have not taken a class if the MSF wasn't free. I know that there are plenty of walk-in openings towards the end of the year. If I didn't get a spot in the one that I did get, I would've just waited until late in the season.

My name is JB, people call me JB

Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy
"I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy catch a pass with his ass cheeks"
JoJo is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 04:41 PM
Pathological Thrill Seekr
 
Deuces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pedaling my ass off!
Posts: 5,196
Location: Pedaling my ass off!
Sportbike: Trek Marlin
Years Riding: Noob
How you found us: Followed the fast guys
           
Send a message via AIM to Deuces
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms
for those of you that are rider coaches, I have a few questions...

how often do you guys teach? Is the experience worth it? I assume when you teach a class you would teach it from beginning to end, from the first thursday evening all the way through sat and sun. What kind of time commitment does each class require?

I only got certified this year, so I had limited opps to teach. I did manage to teach 2 classes, though. It's a GREAT experience. Like Alex said.... 4 hours Friday, then ful days Sat and Sun. And since you can choose to teach a lot or a little, you can control how much of your riding/family time gets eaten during the summer.

Ride smart... stupid hurts.

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't...

Godspeed 788!!! We miss you!
Deuces is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 05:41 PM
1,2,3,4,fif!
 
half-fastracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Logan Square
Posts: 244
Location: Logan Square
Sportbike: 95 Rocky Mountain Hardtail - 23.5lbs
Years Riding: Zero on a motorcycle
How you found us: BadWeatherBikes.com
  
I paid $325 to take the MSF class through Buell/Harley Davidson's "Rider's Edge"

I really like Buells, so wanted to get into the atmosphere. I too, looked into the "free" classes initially and saw they were all booked up. Showing up the day of and hoping to get in as a walk-on didn't interest me.

I enjoyed the MSF curriculum...as it was the first time I was ever on a motorcycle. When my girlfriend learns to ride in the next year or two...I will pay for both of us again.
half-fastracing is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-19-2005, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by half-fastracing
I paid $325 to take the MSF class through Buell/Harley Davidson's "Rider's Edge"

I really like Buells, so wanted to get into the atmosphere. I too, looked into the "free" classes initially and saw they were all booked up. Showing up the day of and hoping to get in as a walk-on didn't interest me.

I enjoyed the MSF curriculum...as it was the first time I was ever on a motorcycle. When my girlfriend learns to ride in the next year or two...I will pay for both of us again.
Great post. And you are the back bone of the private sector. Person that has the money and willing to spend it. I wish there were more people like you willing to spend the money. I would have more then one bike in my garage then.

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 12:18 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 573
      
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar8000
Great post. And you are the back bone of the private sector. Person that has the money and willing to spend it. I wish there were more people like you willing to spend the money. I would have more then one bike in my garage then.
Alex, I took the ride-chicago course. It was $300 when I did it. I tried for years to get scheduled with the MSF free courses, but eventually got fed up with the classes always being full. They need to advertise that walk ins are common alot more, or even better yet, charge a small fee (like $50 non-refundable) just to make sure that people who sign up, show up. If there are alot of no-shows it means the current system isnt working. Or even just make enrollment on a rolling basis, IE class slots arent released until a month ahead of the class.

The $300 I paid was well worth it to get into a class on short notice that suited my schedule and I knew I could get into. Clearing my weekend for a "maybe" isnt cool.
ls14evar is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Cougar8000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 2,173
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Sportbike: 2006 FZ1
Years Riding: I only take walks
How you found us: Friend
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar8000
It is advertised on the MSF website. Not as good as it should be, but it is there. MSF already charges $20.00 to secure the spot, which people can get back if they show up,. I do not know if organization can and wants to charge more, but I hear what you are saying. We also need to keep in mind that MSF is not for profit, so it does not have the budget that nor resources that it needs for proper advertising. That si where I and you come in.

I guess I am not against public sector making money, we are after all capitalist sociaty, I just get a bit offended when MSF is getting bad rep. And I do question some of the things that private sector does. For instance capability and knowledge of their personal. Training that they get. And training that they provide. On the other hand I am sure there are people in the MSF ranks that are not upto par as well.

Alex - Certifiable MSF Instructor
2006 Yamaca FZ1
The truly happy person enjoys the scenery on a detour

A man should choose a friend who is better than himself. There are plenty of acquaintances in the world; but very few real friends.

RIDE for Kids Donations

https://www.mishacycles.com
MishaCycles on facebook
Misha Tactical Arms, Inc
Cougar8000 is offline  
post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-20-2005, 02:25 PM
1,2,3,4,fif!
 
half-fastracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Logan Square
Posts: 244
Location: Logan Square
Sportbike: 95 Rocky Mountain Hardtail - 23.5lbs
Years Riding: Zero on a motorcycle
How you found us: BadWeatherBikes.com
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar8000
Great post. And you are the back bone of the private sector. Person that has the money and willing to spend it. I wish there were more people like you willing to spend the money. I would have more then one bike in my garage then.
I pay for items/services I deem worth the price. This happens to be one of them. I would be happy if my proceeds went to your personal motorcycle collection. I cannot be concerned with what they do with my $325.

I'll give you $600 if you set up range time, supply motorcycles and helmets, and follow the MSF curriculum to the letter. I don't need the title of Ride Chicago, etc.
half-fastracing is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chicagoland Sportbikes forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome