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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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What kind of Tree?

Trimming 'Christmas' from trees stirs debate By Emily Bazar, USA TODAY
Thu Dec 1, 6:45 AM ET



In city halls and public parks across the country, stories-high evergreens are being erected and decked with glowing lights and sparkling ornaments.


They look - and smell - like Christmas trees. But not so fast.


In places as varied as Chicago, Reno and Prairie Village, Kan., they're "holiday" trees. In other spots, such as Atlanta, they have no name at all.


This year, the tree-name game has sparked a backlash, with some Americans crying humbug and Christian groups threatening lawsuits over what they say is religious discrimination.


Perhaps the most heated debate is brewing in Boston. The city's Parks and Recreation Department ignited a furor when it advertised the lighting of a "Holiday Tree," scheduled for tonight.


People complained, and the Nova Scotia logger who donated the spruce told newspapers he'd rather feed the tree to a wood chipper than call it that. Said Boston Mayor Thomas Menino: "I consider this tree to be a Christmas tree."


Mathew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel, a legal group that focuses on religious issues, said the mayor's use of "Christmas tree" means there's no need to go to court over the issue. His group's Christmas campaign aims to stop what it views as religious censorship and "political correctness run amok." It is endorsed by the Rev. Jerry Falwell.


"It's like calling a menorah a candlestick," Staver said. "It's wrong. It's offensive. And it disenfranchises a large segment of the community."


This week in Washington, D.C., the "Capitol Holiday Tree" was renamed the "Capitol Christmas Tree" at the request of House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill.


It was called a Christmas tree until the mid-1990s, Hastert spokesman Ron Bonjean said. "The Speaker thought it was important to reflect what Americans call their trees, which are Christmas trees," he said.


Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said using the term "Christmas tree" excludes people of other faiths and backgrounds.


"I certainly don't need spiritual sustenance from the government," he said. "I get that in my church."


Respect for diversity is the most common reason given by those that use the term "holiday tree." In the town of Fishers, Ind., officials advertise the annual "tree lighting ceremony," without using the words "Christmas" or "holiday."


"We want to be sensitive to all ethnic backgrounds and religious beliefs," said Marc Steczyk, a town spokesman. "We're in the business of treating all people how they should be treated."





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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 01:57 PM
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, wrong forum. Can someone move this, please?

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 02:04 PM
 
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Thats dumb, its a Christmas tree!!!

I don't celebrate Christmas, and I still have a tree. In Russia, we used to have a New Years tree, and thats why I put one up. It is to everyone whatever they would like to call it. I agree with the article completely. Its like calling a Menorah a candle-stick holder. Who gets offended at callling something a freakin christmas tree!!!
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Did anyone notice the Boston tree was donated by a great citizen of Canada?

Props to Nova Scotia!

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 02:07 PM
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Christmas ceased being about the birth of Jesus Christ a long time ago. Christmas in the US is mostly about $$$$, so I see it as fitting.

At the same time, this PC thing is getting redicoulous.

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maoisn
Christmas ceased being about the birth of Jesus Christ a long time ago. Christmas in the US is mostly about $$$$, so I see it as fitting.

At the same time, this PC thing is getting redicoulous.
I think you're absoulutely right, on both counts.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maoisn
Christmas ceased being about the birth of Jesus Christ a long time ago. Christmas in the US is mostly about $$$$, so I see it as fitting.

At the same time, this PC thing is getting redicoulous.
Why do you think they celebrate Christmas in Japan, with their giant robot? The true meaning has sadly been replaced.

All this political correctness offends me. I'm suing the ACLU.

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover

All this political correctness offends me. I'm suing the ACLU.

I SECOND THAT!!!! I hate all this PC bullshit! one craker to another.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-01-2005, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincapsize
I SECOND THAT!!!! I hate all this PC bullshit! one craker to another.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 01:27 AM
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I'm offended by all those that are offended that people call them Christmas trees.

And so, legislation should be passed that we ban people from Earth that are offended by those that call these types of trees, Christmas trees. Then, if they have any religious issues, they can handle it directly with their god.

... and away we go.....

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 11:59 AM
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I think it should be called a Christmas tree. What is the big deal? On the other had, if it is a Christmas tree my tax dollars should not be paying for Christian religious beliefs unless the gov. is going to start putting up menorahs next to the trees. Then we also need to pay equal time to the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. I have a better idea, keep church and state separate.

No offence to my Christian friends, but how about we just cancel this dumb $$$ driven holiday? As an alternative I recommed a week of introspection and fasting. Instead of thinking about how much we can spend on useless junk, think about the meaing of life and our place in the universe. Put the same effort that goes into the "Christmas Holiday" into becoming holy.

There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe. Nothing remains in its original state, each day, each hour, each moment, there is change. Change is the essence of life. Embrace change as you do life. To fight change is to live in the past.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner
As an alternative I recommed a week of introspection and fasting. Instead of thinking about how much we can spend on useless junk, think about the meaing of life and our place in the universe. Put the same effort that goes into the "Christmas Holiday" into becoming holy.
Pffft...

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. D
Pffft...

Useless junk is what I live for. Take your crazy thoughts somewhere else.

OK, that works too.

There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe. Nothing remains in its original state, each day, each hour, each moment, there is change. Change is the essence of life. Embrace change as you do life. To fight change is to live in the past.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 12:48 PM
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Okay, a bit off topic but I want to address the $$$$ everyone is bringing up. Yes, Christmas has become very commercial, but how is it different now than 50 years ago, or 75 years ago? We just like complaining about stuff. If you think its so commercialized just skip it. Don't buy any presents, don't put up a tree, don't hang the stocking by the chimney with care. Just skip it.

As for myself I sometimes get annoyed with the commericialism with Christmas, but I don't bitch about it. I enjoy buying presents for my friends and family. I love the look in their faces when they open their gifts. I love spending the holidays with my family, too. I don't get to see the side in New Mexico very often and Christmas is a time when I go back and see that punk Honda4ever.

Yes, it is a Christmas tree, not a Holiday tree.

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner
I think it should be called a Christmas tree. What is the big deal? On the other had, if it is a Christmas tree my tax dollars should not be paying for Christian religious beliefs unless the gov. is going to start putting up menorahs next to the trees. Then we also need to pay equal time to the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. I have a better idea, keep church and state separate.

No offence to my Christian friends, but how about we just cancel this dumb $$$ driven holiday? As an alternative I recommed a week of introspection and fasting. Instead of thinking about how much we can spend on useless junk, think about the meaing of life and our place in the universe. Put the same effort that goes into the "Christmas Holiday" into becoming holy.
well said.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner
I think it should be called a Christmas tree. What is the big deal? On the other had, if it is a Christmas tree my tax dollars should not be paying for Christian religious beliefs unless the gov. is going to start putting up menorahs next to the trees. Then we also need to pay equal time to the Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. I have a better idea, keep church and state separate.

No offence to my Christian friends, but how about we just cancel this dumb $$$ driven holiday? As an alternative I recommed a week of introspection and fasting. Instead of thinking about how much we can spend on useless junk, think about the meaing of life and our place in the universe. Put the same effort that goes into the "Christmas Holiday" into becoming holy.
My friend, that is a brilliant observation! As a matter of fact I'm almost following those thoughts verbatim.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 01:17 PM
 
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Santa and the Easter Bunny walk into a bar.....

This PC sh*t is going too far! So what, December 25th is Holiday Day?! WTF?

The history of Christmas, yes has a bunch of religions rolled into one. There was no freakin' pine tree in Jerusulim. Just like freakin' Easter bunnies have nothing to do with Christ rising from the dead. It's a lot of things rolled into one.

But here we are. It's Christmas. And if anybody wants to call it something different then they need to truly look at the history of Christmas. It's not what they think it is.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki_D_Wolf
This PC sh*t is going too far! So what, December 25th is Holiday Day?! WTF?

The history of Christmas, yes has a bunch of religions rolled into one. There was no freakin' pine tree in Jerusulim. Just like freakin' Easter bunnies have nothing to do with Christ rising from the dead. It's a lot of things rolled into one.

But here we are. It's Christmas. And if anybody wants to call it something different then they need to truly look at the history of Christmas. It's not what they think it is.

I agree with you. Stop overanalyzing the holiday and just enjoy it.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 01:22 PM
 
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Who cares ? If you wanna call it a Christmas tree call it that..if you wanna call it a Holiday tree, call it that....if you wanna call it Green Monster call it that. If Falwell doesnt have anything better to do he can take a 10 min trip down to New Orleans and see where he can do some real work.
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 01:56 PM
 
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Gear Shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by cam_neely_8
Who cares ? If you wanna call it a Christmas tree call it that..if you wanna call it a Holiday tree, call it that....if you wanna call it Green Monster call it that. If Falwell doesnt have anything better to do he can take a 10 min trip down to New Orleans and see where he can do some real work.

I feel ya but let's be real - all things have an identity. For instance we all have motorcycles, but hey, we know there is a difference! lol
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 02:22 PM
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What other holidays and religions are rolled into Christmas?



Careful now...

There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe. Nothing remains in its original state, each day, each hour, each moment, there is change. Change is the essence of life. Embrace change as you do life. To fight change is to live in the past.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 05:03 PM
 
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Talking Da Truth! Well, sort of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner
What other holidays and religions are rolled into Christmas?



Careful now...

Careful, yeah, I feel ya. Especially around here.

Well from what I remember it started actually before Jesus Christ came onto the scene. It was a Norse thing (ya know, where Loki comes from) hence the pine trees. They celebrated from December 21st through January. The dark days of winter, a racist term of African Amer..... J/K

Anyways, they celebrated the sun's return. They would eat until the logs burned out. That usually took 12 days or something like that. Every spark was a sign for a new pig or cattle.

It was Easter that was celebrated. Anyways, it's mainly Pagan with a blend of religion. Until the Catholic church got involved and a Pope made the date officialy December 25th.

It's a ton more to it. Google it guys. It goes around the world and back.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 05:07 PM
 
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Sad But True

Here's a great link to it. If people truly knew the history they would shut up and realize that it should be called a Christmas Tree and nothing else.

I think the department store mentality mixed with Political Correctness has ruined a day that though off in dates (shepards didn't herd in the winter DUH), brought people together.

I've seen some of the greatest giving done around this time than any other time of year. Sadly, every year it gets smeared with hate more and more.

http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...tmas/real.html
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-02-2005, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki_D_Wolf
I think the department store mentality mixed with Political Correctness has ruined a day that though off in dates (shepards didn't herd in the winter DUH), brought people together.
And that's why knowledge is power!

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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