airplane went off the airport at midway - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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airplane went off the airport at midway

Since my trailer home is covered with snow. Latest on the news.

the airplane went off the runway and hit a car at midway airport. Just one car involved. So far, no claims of major injury.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 09:42 PM
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yup all over the news, and snow storm alert is out too....

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 09:45 PM
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We were at a pizza place about 2 blocks away eating and drinking when it happened. We would've saw it happen if we left the house about 2 minutes later. Streets are closed all over around here, luckily we were west of it and less than a mile from home.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 09:45 PM
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It's farckin' crazy out there...just went x-mas shoppin' in the ole' four wheel drive sleigh...figured there'd be no one out there tonight and i was right...so glad i got this company vehicle to drive and can leave my Mustang parked

...BTW, thar's some crazy bastages out there tearin' it up in their SUV's...driving like total assholes, 4WD don't do shit when none of the tires have grip...

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 11:39 PM
 
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The news has just reported that a kid has died. Sad news....
I've always thought that Midway was a too small of an airport. Granted this very rarely happens.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 11:44 PM
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It's farckin' crazy out there...just went x-mas shoppin' in the ole' four wheel drive sleigh...figured there'd be no one out there tonight and i was right...so glad i got this company vehicle to drive and can leave my Mustang parked

...BTW, thar's some crazy bastages out there tearin' it up in their SUV's...driving like total assholes, 4WD don't do shit when none of the tires have grip...

+1

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniball
I've always thought that Midway was a too small of an airport. Granted this very rarely happens.

I believe (according to the regulations) that the required "safe runoff" extends to the buildings across the street from Midway! My only question is Why the hell did they clead a 737 to land there in the snow when it takes 75% of the runway to land them there in clear and sunny weather?!? Tragedy indeed. I heard that a child lost their life in one of the cars.

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerkMX

...BTW, thar's some crazy bastages out there tearin' it up in their SUV's...driving like total assholes, 4WD don't do shit when none of the tires have grip...

They don't realize that even though they can accelerate... that the laws of physics apply when they stop... They won't!!!!

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuces
They don't realize that even though they can accelerate... that the laws of physics apply when they stop... They won't!!!!
Actually, I believe most jets use reverse thrusters to stop. The brakes are used as well (ok well I use them in my simulator), but primarily what stops the plane is the reverse thrust, so I think that having a slick surface is less of a factor for a plane than for a car in that sense. Anyone else know better by chance? Was it on takeoff or landing?
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:55 AM
 
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Observation

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
Actually, I believe most jets use reverse thrusters to stop. The brakes are used as well (ok well I use them in my simulator), but primarily what stops the plane is the reverse thrust, so I think that having a slick surface is less of a factor for a plane than for a car in that sense. Anyone else know better by chance? Was it on takeoff or landing?
I think he was referring to the SUV's.
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 03:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki_D_Wolf
I think he was referring to the SUV's.
+1

I think he's right about the reverse thruster thing though, this stems back to the thread on that physics question that asked if a plane could take off on a treadmill matching its takeoff speed or something like that.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 08:42 AM
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The 737 was landing. It, plus many other 737's, had been circling MDW for 45 minutes or so while the runways were being cleared of snow. MDW reported 10", which is a ton of snow for a runway.

The plane landed but wasn't able to stop soon enough. It ended up sliding sideways into the grass and across the barricade. The front nose gear snapped and the plane fell onto a few cars. One of the engines came apart as well.

The FAA closed the entire airport last night around 8:20 and then opened it back up around 3:20 this morning.

The last time there was a crash at MDW was 33 years ago. This sort of thing is very rare.

Yes, jets use reverse thrust to slow themselves as well as brakes.

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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:00 AM
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i was watching the news last night and they said the primary braking is the brakes and they only use reverse thrusters as they get to the end of the runway and if they think they arent gonna stop they use 100% reverse thrusters AND 100% brakes....otherwise its only like 25% reverse thrusters to 100% brakes

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:18 AM
 
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That's good info chills. when I saw the spot on the news last night I recalled a similer acident from a few years back, although not in winter conditions, where a plane ended up parked at a gas station similer to last night's incident. I thought for the life of me that was at MDW as well, however, based on your post I must be wrong. Anyone recall where the incident I'm refering to took place?
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick 600 F3
That's good info chills. when I saw the spot on the news last night I recalled a similer acident from a few years back, although not in winter conditions, where a plane ended up parked at a gas station similer to last night's incident. I thought for the life of me that was at MDW as well, however, based on your post I must be wrong. Anyone recall where the incident I'm refering to took place?
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krys
i was watching the news last night and they said the primary braking is the brakes and they only use reverse thrusters as they get to the end of the runway and if they think they arent gonna stop they use 100% reverse thrusters AND 100% brakes....otherwise its only like 25% reverse thrusters to 100% brakes

The reporter who said that was incorrect. Unless the jets come in with no passengers and almost no fuel they must use their reverse thrust to slow them down. Especially at MDW with their short runways. The jets are just too heavy to slow with brakes alone. Reverse thrust is a must. Even prop planes reverse the pitch of their propellers to slow themselves down.

Next time anyone flies listen to the engines as you touch down. You'll hear them spool up and get loud for a few seconds. That's the reverse thrust.

Hey Nick, I got that info on the last accident from the USA Today article. Here's a copy/paste from it: The accident happened 33 years to the day after a crash at Midway that killed 45 people, two of them on the ground. Eighteen other passengers survived.

In that crash, a United Airlines jet struck tree branches about a mile from the airport, then hit the roofs of a number of bungalows before plowing into a home, bursting into flames. Among the dead were Dorothy Hunt, the wife of Watergate figure E. Howard Hunt, and CBS newswoman Michele Clark.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chills
The reporter who said that was incorrect. Unless the jets come in with no passengers and almost no fuel they must use their reverse thrust to slow them down. Especially at MDW with their short runways. The jets are just too heavy to slow with brakes alone. Reverse thrust is a must. Even prop planes reverse the pitch of their propellers to slow themselves down.

Next time anyone flies listen to the engines as you touch down. You'll hear them spool up and get loud for a few seconds. That's the reverse thrust.

Hey Nick, I got that info on the last accident from the USA Today article. Here's a copy/paste from it: The accident happened 33 years to the day after a crash at Midway that killed 45 people, two of them on the ground. Eighteen other passengers survived.

In that crash, a United Airlines jet struck tree branches about a mile from the airport, then hit the roofs of a number of bungalows before plowing into a home, bursting into flames. Among the dead were Dorothy Hunt, the wife of Watergate figure E. Howard Hunt, and CBS newswoman Michele Clark.
Like i said it was just what i heard

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krys
Like i said it was just what i heard


No worries. I wasn't saying you were wrong, just the reporter. They get stuff wrong all of the time.

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:50 AM
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Does anyone know if the plane came down too far along in the runway to stop? At the time visiblity was bad so I see how that could happen. That seems the most logical to me since they use the engines to stop the plane (assuming that the wheels are free spinnings )

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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a witness said, the plane seemed to be too high when approaching.

The airport also has a light device which tells the plane if they are too high or too low. I dont know if the pilot didn't see them? But visibility did suck.
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 10:01 AM
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I think the plane may have landed long. Add that to a slick runway at MDW and what you have is disaster. The authorities should have closed the airport for the duration of that blizzard yesterday. The runways there are some of the shortest in the country for that type of operation. The longest runway is 6500'. That is the one they were on, rwy 31-13. For comparison, the runways at Ohare are 12,000' long. They said the runways were groomed, but anyone who was out in that yeaterday knows that it was impossible to keep anything clear for more than 5 minutes before is was completely slick again.

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 10:01 AM
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Planes follow a group ofelectronic devices called an ILS (instrument landing system) that lines aircraft up for an approach and shows the the correct rate of decent or GLIDESLOPE on which they must follow to touch down on the right spot. It's not a light, but 5 different electronic devices working in unison to land a plane.

By all FAA reports the ILS was working properly. People may say that the plane was too high, but I call BS. If the vis was bad enough that the plane had trouble seeing the airport then bystanders wouldn't be able to accurately judge the height of the approaching plane.

One thing no one mentioned that I have said a couple of times is snow on the runway. The runways had a lot of buildup of snow and ground crews had just finished clearing this particular runway before the 737 had landed. It was a wet slick short runway and the plane slid off.

EDIT: Chuck mentioned the slick runways just as I was typing this.

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Last edited by Chills; 12-09-2005 at 10:03 AM.
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRoll
The authorities should have closed the airport for the duration of that blizzard yesterday.

Chuck, the FAA did close the airport after the crash. It was NOTAMed out at about 8:20 last night.

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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefBD
+1

People were flying around me in SUV's like they were Sportbikes going to Strats, they're crazy.
Can't wait for those times again!!
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 10:06 AM
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Can't wait for those times again!!

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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 11:03 AM
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The tail wind was also to blame with the snow and slick runway. They couldn't land into the wind because of o'hares airspace.
post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good2Go
The tail wind was also to blame with the snow and slick runway. They couldn't land into the wind because of o'hares airspace.
Yep, you are exactly right. The report is 13mph tailwind, which is very high. I didn't even think of a tailwind being a factor. I assumed, incorrectly, that ATC would have them landing in a headwind.

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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good2Go
The tail wind was also to blame with the snow and slick runway. They couldn't land into the wind because of o'hares airspace.
I believe that Runway 31 has the only ILS (Instrument Landing System).

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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-11-2005, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuces
I believe that Runway 31 has the only ILS (Instrument Landing System).
Actually, both runways 31C and 13C have an ILS as does Runway 4R.


The lastest on the accident is that the flight crew is reporting that the reverse thrusters didn't kick in when they were applied.

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Last edited by Chills; 12-11-2005 at 10:16 AM.
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-11-2005, 02:12 PM
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If that pilot had any skills at all, he would have cranked that front wheel and done some massive drifting action with the emergency brake all the way to the terminal topping it off with a 10 o'clock stoppie at the gate.

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