Nailing some Insurgents - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Nailing some Insurgents

All I have to say is WOW - Must have speakers to hear what they are saying and NO this is not one of those "scare the kid" kind of things

"Here is what technology can do in a war zone. The pictures were taken from an AC130 Specter gunship two and a half miles away. The guys in the picture are setting up a roadside bomb and planning to ambush an American convoy which followed a short while after the pictures were taken. They were setting up for the ambush and were pacing off the distance from the bomb to where the convoy was to pass by."

http://lvlranch.com/images/iraqiinsurgents-takeout.wmv

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Last edited by Bug; 02-27-2006 at 05:41 PM.
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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 05:50 PM
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WOW!!! it looks like they just exploded into warm bits and pieces
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 05:52 PM
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:11 PM
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i didnt click the link, doesnt sound like my type of thing. i just want to say that I know that is joey dunlop in your avatar. i've known since you put it up, am I the only one that recognizes this?

Chris
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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:12 PM
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Of course this will probably honk some people off, but I'm pointing it out because it's true.

What was done w/ the last guy is illegal conduct in war.

Per the Hague and Geneva Conventions:

Wounded and Sick

Soldiers who have fallen by reason of sickness or wounds and who cease to fight are to be respected and protected.

Shipwrecked members of the armed forces at sea are to be respected and protected.

Shipwrecked includes downed passengers/crews on aircraft, ships in peril and castaways.

Hors de combat

Soldiers that are Hors de Combat are enemy personnel who are "out of combat".

Examples are:

1. Wounded and Sick
2. Prisoners of War
3. Parachutists- Parachutists of disabled aircraft.
4. Medical Personnel

...dead guys tell no tales, but video does.

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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch
Of course this will probably honk some people off, but I'm pointing it out because it's true.

What was done w/ the last guy is illegal conduct in war.

Per the Hague and Geneva Conventions:

Wounded and Sick

Soldiers who have fallen by reason of sickness or wounds and who cease to fight are to be respected and protected.

Shipwrecked members of the armed forces at sea are to be respected and protected.

Shipwrecked includes downed passengers/crews on aircraft, ships in peril and castaways.

Hors de combat

Soldiers that are Hors de Combat are enemy personnel who are "out of combat".

Examples are:

1. Wounded and Sick
2. Prisoners of War
3. Parachutists- Parachutists of disabled aircraft.
4. Medical Personnel

...dead guys tell no tales, but video does.
Good Points

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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook
i didnt click the link, doesnt sound like my type of thing. i just want to say that I know that is joey dunlop in your avatar. i've known since you put it up, am I the only one that recognizes this?
My all time fav rider - Drunk bastage he was !!!!!!

Good call Chris! I would love to have 1/10th his skills hence my little saying above his pic

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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:27 PM
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I didn't know what an AC130 was so I looked it up and the search turned up these pics. If it offends anyone, just say so and I'll delete it.

Last edited by jimzx9r; 12-28-2006 at 10:07 AM.
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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:29 PM
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It looked more like shots from an apache.

Everyone Exaggerates

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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch
What was done w/ the last guy is illegal conduct in war.
Possibly. If we make the assumption that he was no longer able to render harm or act in an offensive manner than I would agree w/ you. However, we have no way of knowing if he had some type of triggering device on his person or available to him in one of the trucks to which he was crawling back to at the time he was dispatched. We know quite too well that they are willing and able to take their own life via suicide bombings. He was still mobile before those last shots were fired and because of the fact (as is prefaced) that there was a convoy in route, he may still have been capable of offesive action. I guess my point is that neither two scenarios are definitively factual with the evidence presented so I personally wouldn't feel comfortable making definitive statements regarding this video. Just my .02.

However, this video has been floating around the web for a long time now and I believe I saw this vid before with the foot note that there are conventions in place (per NATO) that forbid the use of such weaponry against general infantry. Maybe some of the active/retired personell can shed some light on this.

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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:40 PM
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it seems to me that video has been around for a long while. Its an awesome display of firepower.

whats the weapon of choice do you think?

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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:44 PM
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Abiding by the rules can seem to suck.

Interesting to note though, the people communicating already demonstrated they have this thing called a radio that can be used to communicate that the convoy needs to stop short of that position.

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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phily-D
However, this video has been floating around the web for a long time now and I believe I saw this vid before with the foot note that there are conventions in place (per NATO) that forbid the use of such weaponry against general infantry. Maybe some of the active/retired personell can shed some light on this.
I did not know that we or anyone else had to limit a type of attack while at war based on the targets? I guess my dumb ass would think that if we are at war, they want us dead, we want them dead, what are the by laws here?

Not arguing by any means so please do not take it that way. If such a conviction is in place, I am curious as to all of its nature

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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch
Abiding by the rules can seem to suck.

Interesting to note though, the people communicating already demonstrated they have this thing called a radio that can be used to communicate that the convoy needs to stop short of that position.
Not sure if I follow you here - If they set these up all around the convoy and we do not act, we have just caged ourselves in?

Sorry if the vid is old, it was new to me

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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weelpilot
it seems to me that video has been around for a long while. Its an awesome display of firepower.

whats the weapon of choice do you think?

My Guess:

The lightweight (only weights 127 lbs) M230 30-mm automatic cannon is attached under the helicopter's nose. It too can be controlled from the gunner's helmets. The automatic cannon is a chain gun design which differs from a machine gun in that an electric motor rotates a chain, which slides the bolt to load, fire, extract and eject the cartridges. A machine gun uses the force of the cartridge explosion or flying bullets to move the bolt. The cartridges travel from a magazine above the gun to a feed chute down to the chamber. It can hold a maximum of 1,200 rounds and can fire up to 650 rounds per minute. It fires high-explosive rounds designed to pierce light armor.

Everyone Exaggerates

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post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch
My Guess:

The lightweight (only weights 127 lbs) M230 30-mm automatic cannon is attached under the helicopter's nose. It too can be controlled from the gunner's helmets. The automatic cannon is a chain gun design which differs from a machine gun in that an electric motor rotates a chain, which slides the bolt to load, fire, extract and eject the cartridges. A machine gun uses the force of the cartridge explosion or flying bullets to move the bolt. The cartridges travel from a magazine above the gun to a feed chute down to the chamber. It can hold a maximum of 1,200 rounds and can fire up to 650 rounds per minute. It fires high-explosive rounds designed to pierce light armor.
Noice !!!

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post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:50 PM
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Maybe they already did tell the convoy to stop...and the clip we saw was right after. Maybe that was the only road that the convoy could have taken...so the gunship cleared it out. Just speculation...but that video is pretty old, and apparently not enough people thought what they did was illegal since that vid has been all over the place and nothing ever came of it. I think that clip was actually from Afghanistan, not Iraq.
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post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug
Not sure if I follow you here - If they set these up all around the convoy and we do not act, we have just caged ourselves in?

Sorry if the vid is old, it was new to me
The state of the things (if they were IEDS) is still unknown after killing the personnel. They have no way of knowing if it's 'live' or not. Not notifying the convoy (if there was one approaching) is very poor judgement as there would be no way to know if it was 'armed' or 'on a timer' or anything.

Interesting also is that the video is clipped into at least 3 segments. Watch it a few more times, it's obvious to see it's not continuous.

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post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimzx9r
Maybe they already did tell the convoy to stop...and the clip we saw was right after. Maybe that was the only road that the convoy could have taken...so the gunship cleared it out. Just speculation...but that video is pretty old, and apparently not enough people thought what they did was illegal since that vid has been all over the place and nothing ever came of it. I think that clip was actually from Afghanistan, not Iraq.
So, if the convoy is stopped, they no longer pose a danger to the convoy.

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post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimzx9r
Just speculation...but that video is pretty old, and apparently not enough people thought what they did was illegal since that vid has been all over the place and nothing ever came of it. I think that clip was actually from Afghanistan, not Iraq.
A large number of people outside of this country as well as inside feel that the way in which some things have been prosecuted are illegal. Our media just doesn't like to give it much coverage.

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post #21 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 06:57 PM
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No, I'm not saying that at all. My point is that there are a lot of other things that could have happened around the time of that video that we didn't see or hear. The guys in the gunship or helicopter probably notified the convoy, somebody else could have told the convoy to hold their position or take a different route, then somebody else could have called in the IED disposal crew to check out the bomb. At least this is what would make the most sense to me, and I'm sure the military has standard procedures in place for incidents like this.
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post #22 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 07:05 PM
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post #23 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch
Abiding by the rules can seem to suck.

Interesting to note though, the people communicating already demonstrated they have this thing called a radio that can be used to communicate that the convoy needs to stop short of that position.
True on the radio, I obviously cannot argue that, but at some point they would have had to directly/physically engage the individual to secure the area which would put the individual/individuals assigned this responsability in harms way. I don't know what would have been the right thing to do here; there are too many variables for me to decide.

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Last edited by Phily-D; 02-27-2006 at 07:11 PM.
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post #24 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimzx9r
....then somebody else could have called in the IED disposal crew to check out the bomb. At least this is what would make the most sense to me, and I'm sure the military has standard procedures in place for incidents like this.

IED disposal would have had to come close enough to visually asertain the situation which would put them in the middle of the blast radius. I suppose they could have used an infrared device after some time to see if the individual was no longer maintaining body temp.

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post #25 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 07:31 PM
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I saw an enemy combatant crawling to take a new fighting position.

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post #26 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin
I saw an enemy combatant crawling to take a new fighting position.
he was crawling to activate the WMD in the pickup truck!

the video just goes to show that there are loopholes/grey areas in the rules of engagement. was the guy wounded? was he just crawling for cover? you can't tell on a long range IR camera. and the guy giving the order to engage isn't even looking at the video.
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post #27 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
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I saw an enemy combatant crawling to take a new fighting position.
I'm with you.






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post #28 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 08:34 PM
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oooooookay... When you guys are done picking at this clip, are you going to give the same treatment to the vid of Zarqawi sawing off an innocent man's head? Discuss the legality of blowing up mosques and school buses? People standing in line to vote? (rhetorical question-- I know the answer)
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post #29 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryDallas
oooooookay... When you guys are done picking at this clip, are you going to give the same treatment to the vid of Zarqawi sawing off an innocent man's head? Discuss the legality of blowing up mosques and school buses? People standing in line to vote? (rhetorical question-- I know the answer)
I was trying to leave emotion out of the equation and evaluate the factual content of the video only.
We are all aware of what others have done/are capable of doing; that was not my point here.

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post #30 of 64 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phily-D
I was trying to leave emotion out of the equation and evaluate the factual content of the video only.
We are all aware of what others have done/are capable of doing; that was not my point here.
I know... and that's my point.
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