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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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So how was it?

So did any of you guys go to the 4&6 suspension class? Was it worthwhile, or more of a "Buy from 4&6" infomercial? I wound up working last night, and by the time I got out of here, I wouldn't have made it to 4&6 without being late Plus I kinda wanted to sleep after having been up and working for 24 hours.

Jim Ptak
-bikeless-
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 07:27 PM
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it was worth going to coverd alot of ground and he answered questions as well as gave some basic over biew of whats what and what your looking for etc.



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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 07:46 PM
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I was impressed. No "hard sell"... some good info and Jim took the time to answer EVERYBODY's questions. Quite a few familiar faces from CCS were there as well as CLSB folks. I think I could speak for a few people when I say that we walked out the door LONGING for Spring!!!

Kim
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 09:54 PM
 
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I think he had a great deal of useful knowledge and experience, however, it would have been much more beneficial if it was organized and started off with a overview of how suspensions work, difference between them and definitions of various terms.

But then again, I'm a engineer type... that's just what I'm used to seeing at a seminar.

I did find out that my Fox shock sucks because of larger manufacturing tolerances, and my suspicions were confirmed that Michelins are total crap. Basically I should have went to Drucker and gotten tires and a Penske from him. Maybe I wood have been under 20 by now at BHF and Putnam.

It was great having everyone together and getting ot talk a little to the other 4&6 mechanics. I had a couple questions answered.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 10:00 PM
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yeah i kinda felt bad for you mike, he pretty much said your doomed!

lets see, engineer(bad),fox(bad),h2(bad)!

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 10:40 PM
Who's faster Lupi
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast
yeah i kinda felt bad for you mike, he pretty much said your doomed!

lets see, engineer(bad),fox(bad),h2(bad)!
dont forget sub 100 Hp

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Champ91
dont forget sub 100 Hp
I also liked the "Yeah, that's a good time for someone who's just started riding" comment. Or whatever he said exactly when Mike shared BHF times.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-14-2002, 11:13 PM
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I think he was a little unnerved by the size of the group... I know he wasn't expecting that many people!



Remember, Jim... "Just ride it!"

Kim
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-15-2002, 12:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by maks
I also liked the "Yeah, that's a good time for someone who's just started riding" comment. Or whatever he said exactly when Mike shared BHF times.
That's okay... I did just start riding.

He was right there. I need to dump 5 or 6 seconds to be competitive in CCS.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-15-2002, 07:58 AM
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Hey Gang,

I was reading this thread with great interest, and just to "stir the pot" as the spousal unit always accuses me of, . I understand that a properly tuned machine will do wonders for your times, and since I have never seen any of you, on the street or on the track, and since we (collectively) don't race full time, dumping hard earned $$$$ into a machine which, might, that's a very big might, shave a couple of seconds off your time, doesn't make sense, to my pea sized brain. I'm pretty sure if you had pilots like Hayden, Bayliss, Stotz and others in the same caliber of talent, on stock, out the box, underpowered machines, they would ride circles around us, for one reason only, practice! I'm spending my hard earned $$$$$ on schools and track days A better pilot will always make the machine perform 100%, I want to be the better pilot.

Rick
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-15-2002, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cherrypicker

But then again, I'm a engineer type... that's just what I'm used to seeing at a seminar.
Yeah, he was a little hard on the engineer types. It's a shame really when you speak to someone with a lot of practical experience that could be useful and they don't have the patience to work through WHY these things are happening.

That's how equipment improvements are utimately made. An engineer tries to solve a problem based upon a THEORY, generally with more variables than can easily be quantified. It is EXPERIENCE that is the feedback loop whereby the engineer learns when something doesn't behave the way it's "supposed to". The challenge then becomes understanding better the dynamics of how things work. In fact what you are trying to do is indentify unknown or disregarded variables that have a bigger affect on the outcome than you thought possible.

Anyway, some good information and it was FREE. More importantly for 4&6, an opportunity to help me feel a little more comfortable with them working on my bike and trusting them to do it right. He openly admitted they charge more than many shops, but the bottom line for me is that if they have addtional knowledge and do the job right, I don't care that they charge more.

Dave
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-15-2002, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickC1957

I understand that a properly tuned machine will do wonders for your times, and since I have never seen any of you, on the street or on the track, and since we (collectively) don't race full time, dumping hard earned $$$$ into a machine which, might, that's a very big might, shave a couple of seconds off your time, doesn't make sense, to my pea sized brain.
There a certain joy in riding a finely-tuned machine that has nothing to do with lap times. There are a lot of compromises made when building motorcycles in order to keep them affordable because building motorcycles is a business.

There are not many factory vehicles of any type that cannot be improved by aftermarket parts and labor. So why do people buy Corvettes instead of Yugos when they both can get you from point A to point B and the top speed of both is illegal on the public roads? Because of the driving EXPERIENCE.

Now, you didn't buy a Harley for track days, right? No, you chose a more suitable machine. So it's really just a matter of levels. Will I ever reach the skill level to take full advantage of a turbo Busa with a upgraded suspension? Probably not! Will I derive joy from making noticable improvements? You bet!

If I pick a line on the street and nothing the road throws at me upsets that line, I will be one happy camper.:-

Dave
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-15-2002, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BusaDave


There a certain joy in riding a finely-tuned machine that has nothing to do with lap times. There are a lot of compromises made when building motorcycles in order to keep them affordable because building motorcycles is a business.


Now, you didn't buy a Harley for track days, right? No, you chose a more suitable machine. So it's really just a matter of levels. Will I ever reach the skill level to take full advantage of a turbo Busa with a upgraded suspension? Probably not! Will I derive joy from making noticable improvements? You bet!

If I pick a line on the street and nothing the road throws at me upsets that line, I will be one happy camper.:-
Excellent points Dave

Rick
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 02:53 PM
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I found the seminar to be enjoyable and interesting. I didnt leave feeling like I had gotten a 4&6 sales pitch, but at the same time I did leave with a feeling of confidence in their work. Informative and fun.

Chris
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 03:49 PM
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I appreciate the effort on 4&6s part - to take time out of their day to do the seminar (for free). Thanks Guys

I don't think suspension is rocket science, but I'm still a little fuzzy on quite a few things. I think it was hard for them to answer some of our questions in a way that we understand !? I also think a lot of our question don't have a cut-n-dry answer.

Bottom line: I did grab a few new morsels of useful information. I too wouldn't of minded if they had used a different format

- Sam
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 04:33 PM
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I thought it was good. Informative and useful. Confirmed that Pokey's getting a Penske rear shock in the not so distant future. I'm still deciding on what to do for the front end.
I don't know if my current abilities warrant getting new fork springs and emulators, or just go with the 15W fork oil change.
But that rear 2x4 has got to go.

I came out of there confident in their work quality. Where was Mr. Karson for his WERA video?

I also REALLY appreciated the soda. As a couple could tell, I had a serious hangover from hell. Some asshole decided to empty Famous Freddy's shot supply..using me.

The food also hit the spot. Made the tummy stop squirming.

Chris

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 04:37 PM
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Grovahhh... It looks like I'll be heading back into the city this weekend - Bring the video to lunch on Friday and I'll get it to Steve.

Kim
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-16-2002, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GroverSV650S
Some asshole...
Hey, that wasn't nice. Five's not that many anyways. Wuss.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-17-2002, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GroverSV650S

Where was Mr. Karson for his WERA video?
Chris
I think I missed you by 5 minutes or you might have even left right after i got there. Sorry I was late, I had to take care of my son while my wife did some errands. You never told me what kind of beer you drink.

Kim, Thanks for offering to bring the video down.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-17-2002, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by maks
Hey, that wasn't nice. Five's not that many anyways. Wuss.
yeah, but I had several beers before then and a couple other shots.

Steve, Kim will get the video on Friday at lunch. I took off a bit early, I had to get up to Milwaukee.

Chris

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-17-2002, 08:45 AM
 
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I am glad you guys enjoyed it! I have decided to do a weekly thing with smaller groups. You guys reminded me of that robot in the movie that always needed input! I think it would be better in a smaller group and i could start from the basics then and work my way up. Let me know if saturdays or evenings are better. If you have any questions on anything just email me and i will try to answer them. Thanks for attending! Jim
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