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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Fiberglass

I want to do a couple of things for my car and eventually do some custom work on the bike. anyone have any experience with it? I've read a couple of things on it and it doesn't seem too difficult but I'd rather have help the first time.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 07:34 PM
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It can be harder than it seems. Wrong matting, incorrect resin mix, air pockets that wont come out......

But its cheap and if ya want to try something (albeit on a scrap piece of plastic or something) go for it.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 09:05 PM
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I've done some fiberglassing on oem fairings. It is a mess, and it can be tricky like said above. Its fun and cheap to experiment, so give it a shot. Cloth is much easier to work with instead of matting, but getting the right ratio of hardner to resin is key. Stock up on cheap paint brushes to apply, and a few good spreaders to work out air bubbles and excess resin. Oh yeah, you're hands will be stickier than Clark Griswald's after the christmas tree incident

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 09:35 PM
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Use Blue rubber gloves when doing the work, get a whole box, makes it easier to adhere matting to resin and also place mat on plastics, then use fingers to rub out air pockets......Blue gray color is what I look for when adding the hardner..... Also have handy tooth picks, Popsicle sticks get at craft store or wooden coffee stirrers. Come in handy.....

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2006, 10:11 PM
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two words WEST SYSTEMS!!!

I work with boat builders for a living. I have built cutom carbon parts. look into west systems epoxy and vacume bagging. it is easy to do. get west systems 105 epoxy and 205 hardner with the pumps for measuring.

I'M NOT COCKY, I'M JUST FASTER THAN YOU.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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What I really want is this but its way out of my abilities!
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File Type: jpg zx9triple_small.jpg (6.8 KB, 1 views)
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:10 PM
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I have about 20 years experience with composites in the construction industry so I'll give you my 2 pennies.

DON'T DO IT! It will cost 10 times more money that you think it'll cost if you want to do it right.





Still want to do it?

Okie dokie.. let's cover some basics first so you have a good understanding of the shit involved.

No. 1 Resins

Polyester resin: The same shit you see at home depot , autozone, etc.. It's cheap. It's crap. Breathing this shit in will kill you. The benefit is that it's very easy to use because the mix ratio is not very critical at all. 2% is a good baseline but you can add less or more MEKP(hardener) to vary the cure time. Poly resin will actually cure if left alone by itself for long enough. It may take a year but it will cure without any hardener. You also have to work pretty fast with this stuff as it will get hot and gel real quick rendering it worthless. Oh yeah don't get the MEKP on your skin. It'll cause a chemical burn. Get it in your eyes? You're a blind fucker now. So be careful and protect yourself.

Viny ester resin: Same characteristics as the poly resin as far as mix ratios and the dangers go but superior to the poly resin in almost everyway except cost. It cost just a teeny weeny bit more.

Epoxy: This is the good shit. It costs almost 4 times as much as poly or vinyl but well worth it. There's very little odor so you can actually work with this shit in you kitchen. I don't recommend it but you can. With epoxy the ratio is absolutely critical. If the manufacturer says 3:1 ratio. It better be 3:1 or that shit ain't going to cure no matter how long you stare at it. You almost have to have a weight scale so you can meaure out the resin and hardener by weight which is more accurate than volume. You can get aways with using the metering pumps as captaincapsize suggested. The cool thing is that you can vary the pot life of the resin by using different hardeners so you don't have to hurry to get things layed up. The biggest downside to epoxy is that it is not UV stable so it will breakdown sooner or later with continuous exposure to sun light. You almost have to spray a good uv resistent clear coat to preserve it if it's going to be exposed to sun light.

No. 2 Reinforcements

CSM(fiberglass mat): It can only be used with poly resin or vinyl ester due to the fact that the binders used to hold the strands together will not desolve in epoxy. There are epoxy compatible mats out there that are sewn together rather than using chemical binders. Unless you're building molds, boats, or fabricating car bodies, you will not need to use it.

Woven cloth: This is what you want to use for superior weight savings and strength. For motorcycle parts, I recommend starting with 4oz E-glass or S-glass. S-glass is a bit stronger since the filaments are stiffer. Of course there are different types of E and S glass but we won't go into that. In my experience, I found that 3 oz 4 harness satin weave is the easiest to work with due to the fact that it conforms very well to odd shapes and is thin enough for a superior finish.

Carbon fiber: forget about it. There is none. You can't get it anymore. There's a world wide shortage.

Kevlar: A pain in the fucking ass to cut unless you have kevlar sheers. Try sanding it. You'll soon have a part fuzzy enough that even the star boyz will be envious. Normally you'd want a layer of kevlar as reinforcement at the mounting points. It is very abrasion resistent so it can be good for bodywork as well.

No. 3 Methods of fabricating parts. We'll cover the usual methods

Wet Layup: The usual way bodywork is made. You make a female mold of a part and lay up the material inside and room temp cure it. When done right, it can be quite good as almost all the bodywork manufacturers use this method.

Vaccuum Bagging: Basically wet layup, add release film, breather cloth, bagging film and suck the air out so that the ratio of resin to cloth is ideal. Not the best way but leaps and bounds better than a straight wet layup.

Vacuum Infusion: Lay up the material in the mold completely dry. Vaccuum bag it and infuse the resin into the material. Makes for the best parts this side of NASA and F1.

Prepreg/Autoclave: we won't even touch this as it is cost prohibitive and is usually only used in aerospace and F1.

Still want to try to make your part? Let me know and I'll help you out bro..

Last edited by Chunk; 04-06-2006 at 01:13 PM.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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I would still like to try it. Like I said, I'd like to do some stuff for the car first and then I'd like to do some stuff for the bike. I think its just a matter of someone showing me how to do it the first time. Reading instructions while trying to work with the stuff has got to be a PITA
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:29 PM
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Do you want to modify an existing part or make something from scratch?
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
Do you want to modify an existing part or make something from scratch?
For the bike I was looking to modify existing parts. I want to try and fit the skins from a '00 ZX9 to mine ('96)
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:51 PM
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modifying an existing piece is pretty easy but time consuming as you have to repeat each of the steps over and over. You'll become an expert in using bodyfiller. Basically you need to create a template that has the exact demensions. Build up the part with bodyfiller and sand and sand and sand. Build it up some more and sand and sand and sand. Once you get it in the ball park, You spray a high build primer over it and sand and sand and sand. Fill all the low spots and sand and sand and sand. Once you get it somewhat perfect, You want to cover the area with a 2oz fiberglass cloth with whatever resin you choose. Put a thin layer of bodyfiller on so you don't get print thru of the fibers. Sand it smooth and spray it with a good quality high build polyester primer. Duratec is a very popular brand in the composite industry for stuff like this. After it cures, you sand it to shape it perfectly. Spray some more and then you know what to do from there. When doing things like this, believe your eyes and fingers more than how everything measures. It it looks fucked up, it is. If it feels fucked up. It is.

Once you've gotten this far, you can either make a mold of it so you can make multiple parts or be done with it.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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sounds fun The price of trying to be unique!
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:07 PM
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Give it a go bro.. you maybe take to it pretty easily if you're pretty handy.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
Give it a go bro.. you maybe take to it pretty easily if you're pretty handy.

I'll absolutely try it! I like a challenge. I think I may wait until later in the year though....when I'm not riding.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibit
For the bike I was looking to modify existing parts. I want to try and fit the skins from a '00 ZX9 to mine ('96)
Practice on spares first, it would be a bummer to trash that B zx9 upper and not be able to find another one. If it were me, I would get a 00 upper and a spare B zx9 upper and graft the two together. I also know the 98+ tail will not fit on a B zx9 because of the way the frame butts up to the tail section.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimzx9r
I also know the 98+ tail will not fit on a B zx9 because of the way the frame butts up to the tail section.
Did you already try this? Odysseys seems to think it'll fit but I'll have to get the newer seats as well.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:30 PM
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Definitely won't fit. Go out to the garage and look at your bike, the frame extends back and butts right up to the tail section at an angle. The 98+ tail is at an opposite angle, so you will end up with a gap or you'll have to cut it. If Ody is taking care of it for you I'm sure he can figure something out, but it won't just bolt on and look right. I don't think the seat from a 98+ will go on either. The 94-97 has 2 tabs at the front of the frame that the seat clips into, then 2 bolts at the rear which are integrated with the rear seat mount.


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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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it will fit, oh yes, it will fit If I have to superglue it!!!
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:34 PM
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I'll suggest something. Jibit, why don't you make a cheap splash mold of your existing bodywork and make a set from the mold and modify the piece and leave your stock bodywork alone?
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibit
it will fit, oh yes, it will fit If I have to superglue it!!!
The newer zx7r tail does fit, but it has to be cut because that tail extends all the way to the tank. Just another option to think about.
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimzx9r
The newer zx7r tail does fit, but it has to be cut because that tail extends all the way to the tank. Just another option to think about.
Now that's interesting! Sounds like a better option!
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 03:26 PM
i need a new bike, this one is trashed
 
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 03:47 PM
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If you screw up and trash your fairings, you can go this route.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 11:48 PM
i need a new bike, this one is trashed
 
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Anyone have some good how to's on making fiberglass bodywork.....I plan to undertake an RD350 race bike project when I go back home and will need bodywork.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincapsize
two words WEST SYSTEMS!!!

I work with boat builders for a living. I have built cutom carbon parts. look into west systems epoxy and vacume bagging. it is easy to do. get west systems 105 epoxy and 205 hardner with the pumps for measuring.
++++++11111111 I always have the 105 and 206 in the shop, the 206 gives a longer open time.

Sometimes goodbye is your second chance.
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