Anyone have company loyalty anymore? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have company loyalty anymore?

Over lunch I heard a few guys at the table next to mine talk about how they weren't hiring one guys because his resume showed consistently that he changed jobs every 2-3 years over the last 4 jobs.

I briefly spoke with them about it and gave a mild view from my end being 27 and only about 6 years into the post college workplace. I couldn't speak for the guy they rejected, however I told them that I had little loyalty to almost any company which is partly why I remain as a contractor. The company is at ease hiring me and letting me know when my project is to end, at the same time I get the bonus of having a higher pay than a full timer. If my company burns to the ground tomorrow, I shrug, say 'oh well', and go to the next contract.

This is probably nothing new, but I see companies heading towards outsourcing, contract workers, consultants, force early retirement, etc... It's fine that companies go that route, but in my opinion it then causes lower loyalty and sometimes morale in those very same places. Why would I hang around at a company for 10, 20, or 30 years, when they'll still push me out the door just like anyone else at any point? This doesn't apply to all companies. I've heard a fair amount of good things about places like CDW and other top companies. Maybe it's because these guys were older and this is how things were?
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:32 PM
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Many places have let human beings be reduced to a number on a spreadsheet. Those are the ones where everyone above a certain striation in the org chart is just loyal to their own pocket.

Not all companies are like this, luckily. The tone is always set from the top down.

And yes, company (and coworker) loyalty still exists. It's nice when teams are loyal to both.

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:44 PM
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I think now a days companies are out being that way. It wasn't always so.
Back in the day when you were hired and bust your ass off the company recognized it and would promote you, now you have to work twice as hard to get promoted. And also back in the day the company would look at you like family it seems. My dad has been with his company for about 30 years... and they take good care of him. But he started way back... and stuck with them.
Now ... not so much of those companies are around. They look out for #1

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Many places have let human beings be reduced to a number on a spreadsheet. Those are the ones where everyone above a certain striation in the org chart is just loyal to their own pocket.

Not all companies are like this, luckily. The tone is always set from the top down.

And yes, company (and coworker) loyalty still exists. It's nice when teams are loyal to both.
I have no doubt that there's still loyalty, but from working in many places and speaking with other associates it's more rare for me to hear it than not. One of my good friends is an ASP Developer at CDW. He worked his way up from a floor sales position. At one point he built large servers for companies such as Amazon, Yahoo, etc... One day the CEO and several other execs walked in and said "put us to work". They worked side by side with the other techs building servers for several hours. They didn't have to do this of course, but it does a few things. For one it bumps morale...you are not as much of a suit sitting behind a closed door who's name you only read in company wide emails. It also keeps upper management somewhat more in touch with the workers. You can see the type of people working well under you...are they happy, mad, and so on.

At the contracts I've been on, I've seen managers who talk it up. But when it comes down to you needing some assistance, someone to take the hit, or many other things...they are simply not there. One company I worked at which was fairly well off financially canceled the holiday dinner (which the previous year was at a bowling alley with $5 vouchers for food) in order to save for new carpeting in a mid sized office of 120 people. The company rolled in millions, rewarded the workers very little, and wondered why people came and went week by week?
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:03 PM
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I do, but loyalty also has a price.




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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:20 PM
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I suppose its going to become more this way too. If you can't sell your skills then you probably won't have a job for long.

On the flipside, changing jobs and workplace locations if all fine and dandy when you are 27 and working as a consultant but its not as easy when you add a mortgage on a home that isn't very pack-up-able, a wife who may have a career, and especially kids.

I think the whole unknown thing might get old fast in this case. I have a friend who worked in the loop as a consultant for years then the work dried up and they sent him to Schaumburg 3 days a week. His commute was hellish. Try adding a couple of kids that need to be dropped off at school.

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:23 PM
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I try to but in many environments today, it is not beneficial to do so. Like you have pointed out Biggie, there are very few companies that are loyal to their employees today. It is almost like Corporate America has become the new NFL. You are a free agent, the second they find someone a little younger or cheaper, you are gone. The younger generation has started to observe this and has shrugged off loyalty in attempt to cover themselves. I see no way around this behavior because it is based upon our capitalistic system, which is to make the most profit by any means necessary.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:32 PM
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I used to be loyal, but then the greedy fucks in mgmt several layers above me bought into that lemming method of offshoring as much as possible to maximize their own bonuses.

End result is that I've been hired back into my original company as a highly compensated technical mercenary doing my same job for about 25% more. Oh and if I work overtime now, I make sure I get comp'ed accordingly for it with vacation time. No more working until the job gets done. I put in a 7am-5pm day and after that it's "it'll wait until tomorrow..."
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:35 PM
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In most cases, if you stay at the same company too long (like 10+ years) you are costing yourself money. They don't care about you. My dad worked for Alcoa for almost 30 years combined. He has explained things to me very clearly.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:36 PM
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I"m loyal to a company as long as they keep treating me well. that means deserved promotions, deserved raises, ect. Since I understand that I may think a raise or promotion is derserved to me, but that may not be the case. I keep an eye on my market and see if there are jobs that are higher up or higher paying. If not, I know where I should be. In the end I try to make judgement that will benefit me in the long term.

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
In most cases, if you stay at the same company too long (like 10+ years) you are costing yourself money. They don't care about you. My dad worked for Alcoa for almost 30 years combined. He has explained things to me very clearly.
Never love a company. It will never love you back.

My Uncle retired from there after 30 yrs (Davenport Works) and Dad worked there in the late 60's, early 70's.

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:01 PM
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I have strong loyalty to my current employer, but it's the way that the company is run and the way employees are treated that sets them apart from anywhere I've ever worked before.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:08 PM
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I do, but loyalty also has a price.
This says it all and to which I agree 100%!

I always keep an eye out for new, better paying opportunities.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:10 PM
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At my company we are nothing but warm bodies to them. Which is why they hire fresh college ppl and make them managment. They don't have a clue as to what they are doing, but they just say, hes breathing, he will do. They don't give a damn about us and we never get as little as a thank you for doing a good job. Just a suspention or termination for doing something bad. But i think thats how all RR's are, ask Dave13, i'm sure he can give you the same story. But damn they pay a lot.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:11 PM
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i didn't read the whole post only the opening question.

ive been in business since 1992 and own 3 currently and ran a few others.

loyalty went out the window in the mid 90's.

customers are not loyal
employees are not loyal

why would anyone expect a business to be loyal now a days?

its all about max profit by the lowest bidder able to full fill a project!

customers want everything for nothing, employees want to be paid more then there worth, business are trying to make the most profit they can to support there continuing growth or maintain a certain annual income to support them selfs, and there business.

where did this all start from and continues from?

"the customer"



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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
where did this all start from and continues from?

"the customer"
It's very true. If we were wiling to pay more for all our goods and services, employees would make more and companies would be more profitable.

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:27 PM
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exactly! people need to save money as much as they can OR they are simply bargain shoppers.

end result is YOU WILL find companies doing everything for cheaper.

but you will either get what you paid for, get better then you paid for and when you got back for repeat business, chances are they will have folded up.

gotta love it, roflmao!



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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Never love a company. It will never love you back.

My Uncle retired from there after 30 yrs (Davenport Works) and Dad worked there in the late 60's, early 70's.
I agree, when I worked at GE I saw them force retire so many guys that didn't want to. And the guys who worked there 30+ years only made $1.50 more per hr than we did (under 5 years) and it made me sick when every manager hired was some fresh kid out of college just because he has a degree in something. Problem is the harder you work now the more they expect outta you and they promote you if they feel like it.

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 02:40 PM
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A lot of interesting points here..... alot of victim-speak too.



You have to recognize there are two guardrails here...


If you hop from job to job every 18 - 24 Months you will hurt your resume.
Why ? Because a prospective employer ( the guys in the lunchroom ) read
it and figure, we are going to hire, train and pay this guy sand he's gone
in 18- 24 Months, then we have to do it again.... it took 6 Months to get
him fully productive ( teach him where the bathroom is etc ) and we got
12 - 18 Months of useful productivity from him. Bad ROI.


OTOH, as an employee....


A companys raises will rarely accelearte your earnings as fast as a job move
unless there are considerable rpomotions involved with your current deal.



The moral...

Work hard and stay hungry, invest in your work and yourself.

DEMAND that your company invests in you as much as you invest
in them. If they do not, don't whine, just move on take the move-bump
and invest in the next gig untill you find that reciporacle appreciation.


Once you do, press on but make sure you get as good as you give.

When the giving stops... move along.


That's it..... free enterprise baby !


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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
freaking newbies, man there slow, ha ha ha
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
A lot of interesting points here..... alot of victim-speak too.



You have to recognize there are two guardrails here...


If you hop from job to job every 18 - 24 Months you will hurt your resume.
Why ? Because a prospective employer ( the guys in the lunchroom ) read
it and figure, we are going to hire, train and pay this guy sand he's gone
in 18- 24 Months, then we have to do it again.... it took 6 Months to get
him fully productive ( teach him where the bathroom is etc ) and we got
12 - 18 Months of useful productivity from him. Bad ROI.


OTOH, as an employee....


A companys raises will rarely accelearte your earnings as fast as a job move
unless there are considerable rpomotions involved with your current deal.



The moral...

Work hard and stay hungry, invest in your work and yourself.

DEMAND that your company invests in you as much as you invest
in them. If they do not, don't whine, just move on take the move-bump
and invest in the next gig untill you find that reciporacle appreciation.


Once you do, press on but make sure you get as good as you give.

When the giving stops... move along.


That's it..... free enterprise baby !


Tom
That's where it also helps to say you're a contractor. You're not leaving, your time simply ended and you moved on without damaging your resume. Once you're applying for a full time position you can show that you've assisted many companies and made yourself well rounded and can now join in full time with more responsibilities or whatever other fill in the blanks they may have.
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:03 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
A lot of interesting points here..... alot of victim-speak too.
He wasn't a victim and that's not the way he explained things to me. However, there were things that they tried to do to him that he successfully negotiated this way around. He is one smart dude. He worked there for 13 years right out of college and then he left. Then about 15 years later he went to work for them again. He made it all the way to retirement (about a two years ago), but not without having to deal with some tricky situations.

Bottom line is: Look out for number one because no one else will.

If you ain't with us, then it's just bad news.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
Bottom line is: Look out for number one because no one else will.

and thats why things are the way it is now a days



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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
freaking newbies, man there slow, ha ha ha
 
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Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
and thats why things are the way it is now a days
What other choice do you have? What's the average vacation time in Europe...starting at one month? Companies here don't even grant any usually for the first 3-6 months. As we become more global, we can see that other parts of the world take it a little easier than us. So if I get zero paid vacation, no insurance, or other benefits as a contractor, you betcha I'm gonna be all about the money and drop company X in a heartbeat for more cash.
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
He wasn't a victim and that's not the way he explained things to me. However, there were things that they tried to do to him that he successfully negotiated this way around. He is one smart dude. He worked there for 13 years right out of college and then he left. Then about 15 years later he went to work for them again. He made it all the way to retirement (about a two years ago), but not without having to deal with some tricky situations.

Bottom line is: Look out for number one because no one else will.


I wasn't necessarily referring to your story.....but OK.

If the shoe happens to fit.





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Last edited by BLARNEY; 05-07-2007 at 03:47 PM.
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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:20 PM
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Different perspectives.

Work to live, or live to work?

That tends to guide your choices.

Everyone Exaggerates

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
and thats why things are the way it is now a days


True.....



Doesn't really matter who started it, there is no loayalty on either side of the deal.



JRock has it right, you have to watch out for yourself.

Usually, working hard for the company and watching the return appreciation
get's that done.....but there are no guarantees. If you don't watch it
the "company" may try to shovel you shit..... if you are smart, you don't
accept the tricky situtaions and navigate around them.

Loyalty works.....but but only both ways.


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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY View Post
I've heard a fair amount of good things about places like CDW and other top companies. Maybe it's because these guys were older and this is how things were?

Ha that is funny I work at CDW and yeah I would say that I have loyalty to my company, but maybe it's because I'm in Sales and if I worked for a different company in this same field I would know that CDW was a better company for my customers to do business with than another IT company.

Bottom line though is that it's tough to be loyal when we all basically can be canned any day and the company just moves on like no big deal. I'm staying as long as the money is good and things are kosher.
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