BMW 3-series wagons... - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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BMW 3-series wagons...

I am thinking of one of these (used) for the wife's new ride. Any opinions? Thinking the 323 wagon with the sport suspension package; $10-20k, 40-70k miles maybe... We aren't ready for a minivan yet...

To those with 3 series experience;
How do the handle in the winter (RWD)?
How is the reliability?


I hear BMW trackdays are really cheap and they have them @ blackhawk quite often. I may finally get back to the track and take the expanding family
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 12:42 AM
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You really want to drive a wagon on the track?
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 01:33 AM
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you really wanna drive a wagon in the snow?







ong whel base in short corners w/ chicago snow.....


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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentofDarkness View Post
You really want to drive a wagon on the track?
why not? better than a minivan at the track.
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post
you really wanna drive a wagon in the snow?

not really but there isn't much I'll be able to do about that. hence the question directed towards those that have experience with 3 series bimmers. same wheel base as the sedan is it not? I had a RWD volvo 240 that handled better than a honda civic in the snow...
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevisR6 View Post
not really but there isn't much I'll be able to do about that. hence the question directed towards those that have experience with 3 series bimmers. same wheel base as the sedan is it not? I had a RWD volvo 240 that handled better than a honda civic in the snow...
the best station wagons available are usually the toyota scion, the volkswagon passat, and the mercedes e-class. I would look at on of those first. You can get a passat with a 4 cyl. turbo or a six pot.

THe 323 is a fairly enemic motor and to add the extra weight of a station wagon and I think you will surelly be dissappointed in the performance.

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 07:57 AM
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My wife has a Ford Escort wagon, handles terrific in the snow.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:02 AM
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If you are looking at a sport package car, and it retains it sport-oriented
tires you will want to get a set of winter tires / wheels from tire rack.


RWD in the snow isn't bad, I have always preferred it.

I prefer to drive with the TCS off in the slippy stuff and steer it with the
throttle.....very manageable. The Z3 had a pretty short wheelbase and
liked to rotate....requiring much caution..... the 330 is cake to drive in
the snow....with the exception of the summer tires.


The small 6 is a jewel......smooth as anything..... but not a rocketship.


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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms View Post
the best station wagons available are usually the toyota scion, the volkswagon passat, and the mercedes e-class. I would look at on of those first. You can get a passat with a 4 cyl. turbo or a six pot.

THe 323 is a fairly enemic motor and to add the extra weight of a station wagon and I think you will surelly be dissappointed in the performance.
not a fan of the scion; we have one: it's too small, and talk about an anemic engine. it feels "loose" as well. by contrast the bmws that i have been in feel "solid and tight". Best way i can describe it.

i'm not to sure about the reliability of vw or mercedes lately. lots of little annoying problems, or so I hear...
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:22 AM
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[QUOTE=clearwaterms;862542]the best station wagons available are usually the toyota scion, QUOTE]

I took my Scion xB (the box) to an autocross day hosted by Chicago Miata Club (I forgot what their name is) and another day with Windy City Minis (Mini Coopers).

I kept up with all those more sporty cars in the box, and was several up from the slowest times on the course.

Granted, the xB doesn't have a long wheel base, but it is a wagon.

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevisR6 View Post
i'm not to sure about the reliability of vw or mercedes lately. lots of little annoying problems, or so I hear...
And you are looking at a 5 year old BMW? You have heard the service nightmare of older Beemers right? Not to mention you are getting a bottom of the barrell BMW, when for the same money you could have an older A4 wagon or the Passat wagon with 4 motion. I hate VW but I would take that over an older small engined 3 series.

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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
If you are looking at a sport package car, and it retains it sport-oriented
tires you will want to get a set of winter tires / wheels from tire rack.


RWD in the snow isn't bad, I have always preferred it.

I prefer to drive with the TCS off in the slippy stuff and steer it with the
throttle.....very manageable. The Z3 had a pretty short wheelbase and
liked to rotate....requiring much caution..... the 330 is cake to drive in
the snow....with the exception of the summer tires.


The small 6 is a jewel......smooth as anything..... but not a rocketship.


Tom
ah, the voice of experience. thank you. They one i'm looking at comes with a set of winters on alloy wheels. the small 6 would let me focus on my corner speed

have you done any of the bmw track days? I ran into some bimmer guys at an autobahn event ( i brought the civic). they had tons of tools (had their track tires in the trunk, adjusted camber at the track, etc) seemed very knowledgeable and friendly. they said bmw track days are only ~$70.. and better run with more mature drivers. the event i was at had 3 or 4 evo wrecks and 2 evos with blown engines that spewed oil all over the track. a bunch of immature rich kids racing each other with no clue. one of the guys had an older bimmer 4 cyclinder and lap times were like 15 seconds under some of the fools in the evos. some wagons there as well schooling the "cooler" cars
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Racing View Post
You have heard the service nightmare of older Beemers right? Not to mention you are getting a bottom of the barrell BMW, when for the same money you could have an older A4 wagon or the Passat wagon with 4 motion. I hate VW but I would take that over an older small engined 3 series.
please elaborate on the service nightmares. i am not aware. I thought the older ones were "better", 200k+ miles type of better. same for mercedes and volvo; they don't make them like they used too. I wonder if it has anything to do with american companies having a stake in them now (merc and volvo)

isn't the A4 the bottom of the barrel Audi? The bimmer is a 6; the A4 and VW are either a turbo 4 or a 6 right?
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:42 AM
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I was under the impression older style like 1999-2004 were the worst bunch of Bimmers to buy. Yes the 323 is a 6 but it only has 170hp, bleck. The 4 cylinder VW and Audi still have 180 with the 1.8T motor, the Audi might even have the 225hp version depending on year.

Chrysler never had a stake in Mercedes, otherway around. I have no idea how Ford and Volve work. The V60R wagon would be sweet.

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:50 AM
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Go with the Subaru WRX wagon...Stlyish, powerful, and it's AWD. My buddy has one, that thing handles awesome! Here's a link to the spec on an '05 WRX Wagon Something like this...


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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MM Racing View Post
I was under the impression older style like 1999-2004 were the worst bunch of Bimmers to buy. Yes the 323 is a 6 but it only has 170hp, bleck. The 4 cylinder VW and Audi still have 180 with the 1.8T motor, the Audi might even have the 225hp version depending on year.

Chrysler never had a stake in Mercedes, otherway around. I have no idea how Ford and Volve work. The V60R wagon would be sweet.
Its the V70R, but yea, a 300hp, AWD wagon is pretty sweet, but out of his price range.

I recommend the A4 wagon. The 1.8T motor is reliable as long as you change the timing belt at the right interval (think honda engines). The Passat and Jetta wagons are options too. As far as reliability goes, my Audi has 78,000 miles on it, and I have yet to have an issue.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Merc C class wagon either. People say the quality is gone, but I ask if those people have any experience with Mercs, or just believe what they read.

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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I was under the impression older style like 1999-2004 were the worst bunch of Bimmers to buy. Yes the 323 is a 6 but it only has 170hp, bleck. The 4 cylinder VW and Audi still have 180 with the 1.8T motor, the Audi might even have the 225hp version depending on year.

Chrysler never had a stake in Mercedes, otherway around. I have no idea how Ford and Volve work. The V60R wagon would be sweet.
the 1.8t had 150 or 170 hp depending on year and maybe 165ft lb torque. i'm sure you have to rev it pretty high to make that power as well.

the bimmer is 170hp 181ft lb and i'm sure the torque hits low and is on until redline. you should be able to appreciate that rc51 There are 600s that make more hp than you so i should just buy one of those right?
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Go with the Subaru WRX wagon...Stlyish, powerful, and it's AWD. My buddy has one, that thing handles awesome! Here's a link to the spec on an '05 WRX Wagon Something like this...

i have one.... i like! i am very impressed with it thus far. need something for the wife now. she has to be able to haul groceries and 2 kids.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:19 AM
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I bought an RC to be different, if thats your goal with the beamer I would say go for it. Your stuck on the Beamer so just get it.

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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I bought an RC to be different, if thats your goal with the beamer I would say go for it. Your stuck on the Beamer so just get it.
i'm not stuck on it. i'm soaking in this info and will be doing some research on the reliablility....

i'm not shooting down your rc52 either. you can be going 20mph in 4th and hit the gas and actually go somewhere vs a 600 where you would have to downshift twice... I was hoping you would appreciate the value of torque and not make decisions based on peak HP numbers.
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
CR BAD BETS

These vehicles showed multiple Used Car Verdicts that were much worse than average, according to our survey respondents. They consistently had more problems than other models overall.



BMW 7 Series
BMW X5 (V8)
Chevrolet Astro
Chevrolet Blazer
Chevrolet Express
Chevrolet S-10 (4WD)
Chevrolet Venture
Chevrolet Uplander
Chrysler
Town & Country (AWD)
Dodge
Grand Caravan (AWD)
GMC Jimmy
GMC Sonoma (4WD)
GMC Safari
GMC Savana
Infiniti QX56
Jaguar S-Type
Jaguar X-Type
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Kia Sedona
(except 06)
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover LR3
Lincoln Aviator
Lincoln Navigator
Mercedes-Benz CLK
Mercedes-Benz
M-Class (V8)
Mercedes-Benz
S-Class (V8)
Mercedes-Benz SL
Nissan Armada
Nissan Titan
Oldsmobile Bravada
Oldsmobile Cutlass
Oldsmobile Silhouette
Pontiac Aztek
Pontiac Trans Sport
Pontiac Montana
Pontiac Montana SV6
Volkswagen Cabrio
Volkswagen Jetta
(turbo, gas)
Volkswagen Jetta (V6)
Volkswagen
New Beetle (4-cyl.)
Volkswagen Touareg
Volvo XC90 (6-cyl.)
There are no Audi's, 3 series or C-classes. Not sure what's up with the VWs though....
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:43 AM
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I do appreciate the torque, no offense taken to the RC. I am just not a fan of older BMW's and their very outdated and boring interiors coupled with the hit or miss repairs and maintenance items.

Ian
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 10:46 AM
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The one other interesting small wagon that has not yet been mentioned
is the Subaru legacy GT...... think Outback wagon but without the
wanna-be SUV stuff...... more like wanna-be sports cars stuff.


Nice car


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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 11:46 AM
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I've driven many 1.8t A4 Avants (loaners, mostly B6's) and i must say, they handle great. I actually thought about trading in the fat whore for an A4 Avant with the Ultrasport package.

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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevisR6 View Post
There are no Audi's, 3 series or C-classes. Not sure what's up with the VWs though....
Notice that says "Survey" Number 1 reason not to base your opinion on consumer reports. Why VW is up there, because Toyota has better engineers than the Germans. Suprising that no one filled out a survey about their Toyota's engine locking up. Or did Toyota pay CR not to print it.

If you want a real opinion, go to an Audi's forum and read what people say about the car. Don't go by someone elses opinion on looks and feel. Your 7 feet tall and people are telling you to buy a ford escort. Because ford escort has a modern interior : Buy what you like not what someone tells you.
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
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Its the V70R, but yea, a 300hp, AWD wagon is pretty sweet, but out of his price range.
+1 on the V70R. I love mine. He should be able to find one in his price range. A quick eBay search finds this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo...em250152028130

Besides, who else offers an Ohlins suspension upgrade as a factory option.
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 08:36 PM
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My buddy had a bmw wagon. It looked pretty slick, it was lowered and on bbs 19s. Just got totalled out for vandalism, though.
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:32 PM
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Suby Legacy wagon, much nicer than the impreza platform.

or

A Suby Forester, STI may be coming, but either way it's a good car. Much more room than an Impreza wagon.

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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 09:37 PM
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Almost bought one of these before my A4 and if I had to go wagon, Audi All-Road FTW

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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-08-2007, 10:00 PM
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