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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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so, what are the odds of this one disinigrating on re-entry. they are capable of repairs but decided it was not "worth it".

good thing these idiots were not runnig the show during apallo 13.

lovell: "houston we have a problem"

mission control: "so what?"
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:16 PM
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NASA does have some of the best engineers in the world working for them. I'm sure they had their reasons for not repairing the damage and a lot of work to back it up.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:21 PM
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As long as it was an engineering consensus and not a managerial (non-engineer) override decision, I'm good w/ it.

No one understands that spacecraft better.

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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one of the engineers that reveiwed the colombia disaster dissented w/ the decision.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwags View Post
one of the engineers that reveiwed the colombia disaster dissented w/ the decision.
I should have clarified my answer as: "As long as there was a UNANIMOUS decision amongst the engineers...."

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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could one of you smart guys explain what it is you're talking about
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja 13 View Post
could one of you smart guys explain what it is you're talking about

anyone?
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-16-2007, 11:57 PM
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http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sh...ain/index.html

What does worry me:

"The Mission Control Center in Houston informed the STS-118 and Expedition 15 crews late Thursday that Saturday’s spacewalk will not include repairs of Space Shuttle Endeavour’s heat shield.

After hours of reviewing data and imagery collected during the inspections by the STS-118 crew , the managers decided the damage did not pose a safety risk to the crew or Endeavour. The damage occurred during Endeavour’s climb to orbit on Aug. 8.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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they did not even re-task a sattelite to photograph the columbia and they knew the foam could punch through the carbon-carbon leading edge of the wing.

these are people up there and management won't spend the money. the astronauts don't have "golden parachutes"

this whole thing makes me sick.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwags View Post
they did not even re-task a sattelite to photograph the columbia and they knew the foam could punch through the carbon-carbon leading edge of the wing.

these are people up there and management won't spend the money. the astronauts don't have "golden parachutes"

this whole thing makes me sick.
A couple of failures could make the public not want to send money that direction anymore, then we can divert that part of the federal budget to the defense industry just like we're trying to do and have done w/ social security, education, etc.

Sick and sad to think of it in those terms, but it makes one wonder....

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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conspiracy to sacrifice our astronauts to divert more money to the defense department I think that's a bit of a stretch
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 12:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwags View Post

lovell: "houston we have a problem"

mission control: "so what?"
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
A couple of failures could make the public not want to send money that direction anymore, then we can divert that part of the federal budget to the defense industry just like we're trying to do and have done w/ social security, education, etc.

Sick and sad to think of it in those terms, but it makes one wonder....
That's already been going on for a long time. NASA's budget right now is ridiculously small compared to what it was years ago.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja 13 View Post
conspiracy to sacrifice our astronauts to divert more money to the defense department I think that's a bit of a stretch
almost as bit of a stretch as plans to do bombings on US soil and blame the cubans.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 07:54 AM
So long San Diego :(
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
NASA does have some of the best engineers in the world working for them. I'm sure they had their reasons for not repairing the damage and a lot of work to back it up.
Shit, isn't there an engineer there that Graduated from SIU, Joan Higgonbotham or something like that? I guess SIU does make the best engineers in the world though!

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 07:56 AM
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They are out there anyways, why not just do the repair?

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sh...ain/index.html

What does worry me:

"The Mission Control Center in Houston informed the STS-118 and Expedition 15 crews late Thursday that Saturday’s spacewalk will not include repairs of Space Shuttle Endeavour’s heat shield.

After hours of reviewing data and imagery collected during the inspections by the STS-118 crew , the managers decided the damage did not pose a safety risk to the crew or Endeavour. The damage occurred during Endeavour’s climb to orbit on Aug. 8.
I agree with you here. The article I linked at the bottom of this posts mentions a chairman and commander, but nothing of the engineers. I'm assuming they are just the spokes people for NASA as engineers tend to get to technical when trying to explain a situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto Bean View Post
Shit, isn't there an engineer there that Graduated from SIU, Joan Higgonbotham or something like that? I guess SIU does make the best engineers in the world though!
I graduated from SIU so that automatically makes it the best school in the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcohenchicago View Post
They are out there anyways, why not just do the repair?
It comes down to whether or not they believe that it is worth it for them to attempt to fix it. From the quick read I did, it showed that they have a way to fix it, but they are unsure about which of the two choices is better. One is for repairing thin, hairline fractures and the other is for a larger hole. This one is inbetween so they would either have to hope the hairline fix works, or make the hole bigger to use the patches they have, which could make things worse.

From the data analysis report I browsed, it said they did multiple tests and simulations involving the same materials and temperature, and it was concluded that they should be ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja 13 View Post
could one of you smart guys explain what it is you're talking about
This is a pretty good article explaining the situation. Also if you go to Arch's link and read a couple of the articles, you can get a good understanding of what's happening.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...pair_updt.html
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 08:44 AM
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Circling back around on who's making that call.. If there's no dissension amongst the engineers, then I full trust their collective decision.
but... If there's that one guy who's on record and has the "See, I told you so.." information that got out-voted, them I'm going to be both sad and pissed.

Too many times the over-cautious lone-wolf that people scoffed away from the larger collective 'yes' ends up being the one who was right.

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 08:46 AM
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It's not a unanimous decision from what I heard on the radio this morning.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 08:48 AM
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NASA can't afford the loss of another shuttle. I very seriously doubt that the situation is anything other than what it is being reported as. Just my .02

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja 13 View Post
conspiracy to sacrifice our astronauts to divert more money to the defense department I think that's a bit of a stretch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
almost as bit of a stretch as plans to do bombings on US soil and blame the cubans.
For the record, this is definitely not something I want to be saying: "See, told you so" about. When Enterprise was making its piggyback test flights off the 747 in 1977 I wanted to one day fly that contraption.

The decision to launch Challenger overriding the dissenting engineers was a sad day in hell.

It's not someone wanting to sacrifice, it's a problem of misplaced priorities...

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Last edited by Arch; 08-17-2007 at 08:53 AM.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 09:08 AM
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Actually, I was talking to a friend who works at JPL and he said they should just install a power commander and be done with it.

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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Actually, I was talking to a friend who works at JPL and he said they should just install a power commander and be done with it.
Don't forget to slide the rocket tubes up to compensate.
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 03:24 PM
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I hear them that the spacewalk to fix the gouge is potentially dangerous, but especially with the recent history, isn't it better to be safe than sorry. At least go and spray that black paint they've been talking about. It can't hurt.

But, on the other hand, sounds like they're more worried about structure damage that will cost a lot to repair after landing rather than actual disintegration to the shuttle. So, I'm guessing that this landing is going to go well, with damage to the shuttle's exterior from re-entry. (Crossing fingers)

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 03:32 PM
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I think they should patch that hole with bubble gum.

I smell some serious problem.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 03:35 PM
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Looks like a pretty big hole to me. Can't they stuff a bunch of the hairline patches in there? Doing nothing seems scary, and I'm thinking any ground based test is going to fall short of real world conditions.

Then again, didn't some of the tiles from the original flights fall of entirely? I mean, the shuttle would come back looking like a piece of swiss cheese in the early days. Those tiles really suck.

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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-17-2007, 03:40 PM
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Looks like a pretty big hole to me. Can't they stuff a bunch of the hairline patches in there? Doing nothing seems scary, and I'm thinking any ground based test is going to fall short of real world conditions.

Then again, didn't some of the tiles from the original flights fall of entirely? I mean, the shuttle would come back looking like a piece of swiss cheese in the early days. Those tiles really suck.
They used to, yes. The tiles fall into multiple categories of importance, depending on its location on the orbiter. Some are CRITICAL while others not so critical to structural integrity. Columbia had damage in a CRITICAL section vital to structural integrity due to the higher temps on the edges at re-entry, where lots of plasma is formed.

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