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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Armor Question??

I'm looking to put armor in my Vanson jacket, but I figure if I'm buying armor, I might as well get the best I can afford.

Anyone well versed in garment armor that can recommend some of the best?

I was looking at Force Field which seems some of the most technologically advanced...but I can't find the shoulder/elbow pads here in the US. Their back pad I can find under the Force Field name, and Joe Rocket appears to be distributing the Force Field backpad in a different color...but no shoulder/elbow pads.

Suggestions?? Or is this another one of those odd topics I bring up that nobody really gave much thought too?

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:27 AM
 
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Why doesn't Vanson put some CE armor in their stuff I thought Vanson was supposed to be great leathers.

I've put this on and it seemed to be great. Has the back protector in it that I wear under my gear, but also has all the other pads you need.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...on-Jacket.aspx
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:28 AM
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I got the Vanson GP armor. I didn't want to mess with univeral stuff that might or might not have the velcro in the right places. One spill with the stuff. No part of me that was armored was hurt in the least

Eric
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
I got the Vanson GP armor. I didn't want to mess with univeral stuff that might or might not have the velcro in the right places. One spill with the stuff. No part of me that was armored was hurt in the least
+1

Their armor is designed to fit the garment too.

I would get the best that Vanson offers.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullThrottleZX View Post
Why doesn't Vanson put some CE armor in their stuff I thought Vanson was supposed to be great leathers.

I've put this on and it seemed to be great. Has the back protector in it that I wear under my gear, but also has all the other pads you need.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...on-Jacket.aspx
Yeah, but I don't want a suit/shirt. I want garment armor.

I'm just polling the group to see if anyone knows of better then the Vanson armor.

If nobody knows nuffin, then I'll probably just go GP like Eric.

Eric, did you get the Vanson back protector as well? Crap, that jacket, after mods and options probably costs half what your bike did! LOL

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post

I would get the best that Vanson offers.
That was one question I never got answered from Vanson. They list CE armor and their own GP armor. The CE is obviously certified to the Impact Specification. Their GP armor isn't certified to any spec. But Vanson says the GP armor is what they put in their race suits. That trumped the lack of certification for me. Dunno why the GP armor is not certified.

No, I still need a back protector. Don't have one yet. And yeah, my jacket is about a 1/3 of the cost of my bike

But I love that jacket. Nothing fits and feels better than it. Over 25,000 hard miles and 1 crash on it and it still looks brand new. No fraying seams at all and no cracked leather, (but I do take good care of it). I'll have that jacket for probablly as long as I'm riding motorcycles

Eric

Last edited by Maynard; 08-20-2007 at 11:44 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullThrottleZX View Post
Why doesn't Vanson put some CE armor in their stuff I thought Vanson was supposed to be great leathers.

Its not a matter of them being great leathers or not. Vansons primary customer barely wears gear, and is probably even less concerned with armor, so it is sold as an add on.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
That was one question I never got answered from Vanson. They list CE armor and their own GP armor. The CE is obviously certified to the Impact Specification. Their GP armor isn't certified to any spec. But Vanson says the GP armor is what they put in their race suits. That trumped the lack of certification for me. Dunno why the GP armor is not certified.

No, I still need a back protector. Don't have one yet. And yeah, my jacket is about a 1/3 of the cost of my bike

But I love that jacket. Nothing fits and feels better than it. Over 25,000 hard miles and 1 crash on it and it still looks brand new. No fraying seams at all and no cracked leather, (but I do take good care of it). I'll have that jacket for probablly as long as I'm riding motorcycles
Yeah, I really like mine. I've gotten several compliments on it and even Peanut said it looks good (sometimes I'm surprised if she notices I'm dressed, so any comment from her means something).

CE is a Euro cert. I'm sure many products surpass that, and the GP does sound better, certs or not.

Did you go down wearing the GP armor? Isn't that a one shot and replace armor??

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post

Did you go down wearing the GP armor? Isn't that a one shot and replace armor??
yes & probablly

Eric
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Its not a matter of them being great leathers or not. Vansons primary customer barely wears gear, and is probably even less concerned with armor, so it is sold as an add on.
That's EXACTLY why I was looking into better quality armor. I figure if their primary customer doesn't care, then I wonder how much R&D Vanson really put into these armor pieces...if any at all.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
That's EXACTLY why I was looking into better quality armor. I figure if their primary customer doesn't care, then I wonder how much R&D Vanson really put into these armor pieces...if any at all.
There are no huge differences in garment armor technology. Its all the same. No matter what brand.

When you get into body armor, then thats where the differences in technology come into play.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
Yeah, I really like mine. I've gotten several compliments on it and even Peanut said it looks good (sometimes I'm surprised if she notices I'm dressed, so any comment from her means something).

CE is a Euro cert. I'm sure many products surpass that, and the GP does sound better, certs or not.

Did you go down wearing the GP armor? Isn't that a one shot and replace armor??
Europe is really weird with certifications on everything. I bet the only reasons they got the CE cert is to say they have it and maybe some requirement to be able to sell products in Europe. I have to jump through all sorts of hoops with customers in order to allow them to sell products in Europe, which can be a pain.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:53 AM
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Yeah, but Vanson does a lot in racing and development of their racing line affects how they make their street stuff. Armor, seam exposure, threads per inch, thread material, and so on.

I had this discussion about CE ratings with some people at Vanson once before, because they don't have CE rated armor. Anyway, the CE rating is does not always apply to a specific application, and it has a cost. As an exmaple, the current Snell vs BSE helmet certifications and how they apply to actual motorcycle crashes can be used as an example, and how they sell their stickers. Snell is a heavier, less flexible shell, and it is more related to cars, etc., etc...probably for another thread.

Anyway, Vanson has made changes to their armor, having worn their stuff for quite a while. Their back protectors do work too. I know that myself and both Wood brothers use the Vanson back protectors in our leathers. They do just work well. It's simple, but it is effective. I've hit walls with my back, and I've had my back ran over. Still ticking.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:56 AM
 
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???

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that info, Dave.

Doing a little Googling, I ran into this (my brain will be mush after I process all of this)

There are many construction types for imact protectors including Knox's plastic honeycomb(single-use) pieces, T-Pro's rubber-based foam pieces, viscoelastic/temperfoam(memory foam) pads, dual-density plastic foams, various hard plastic pieces and sandwiched-plastics, and Rukka's air-filled protectors.

Soft and hard doesn't differentiate performance levels. If you look at the construction of most CE approved armor you will find that the highest performing products are soft foams(Asterne/Astrosorb 8mm). At less than a centimeter thick, they may even seem flimsy. However, these pieces fall in to the "extreme performance" category for CE impact energy absorption. There are only a few "hard-shell" impact protectors that are rated to the basic level and most are not CE approved. Alpinestars, Dainese, and Erbo all sell hard(harder)-shelled protectors that claim meet the CE basic levels.

Some hard armor may protect against penetration or provide slightly better abrasion resistance than other forms, but penetration injuries are rare. A hard object underneath an outer layer may also damage that outer layer in an impact or slide by reducing the surface area and increasing the pressure at contact points. Flexibility of softer components should also equate to greater comfort and better fit.

You may also see the term "GP" armor used t describe a hard-plastic over foam design, but keep in mind that the "GP" label is a marketing term, and does not imply any real value or meaning, or any exact specification that provides a level of performance. If a European company is selling non-CE approved GP-style pieces alongside its CE approved options, then that should be a clue to the real crash-worthiness of those particular pieces, as they would be using that construction to pass the tests if it was superior.

Similar to Snell and DOT standards for helmets, CE standards for motorcyclist's protective clothing establish a unified testing procedure for products sold in Europe as motorcylcist PPE(Personal Protective Equipment). Under the CE directives, all products have to be tested and approved by an independent, government approved test house.

There are CE standards that cover each part of the body and each category of protective qualities associated with motorcyclist clothing. These include abrasion resistance, tear strength, impact protection, and seam strength. There are standards covering motorcyclist's suits, jackets, pants, and impact protectors("armor"), as well as gloves and footwear.

CE testing in Europe is mandatory for impact protectors, however, it is also required for any motorcyclist clothing claiming or marketing protective qualities. In other words, if a company claims their product is built for protective purposes, it must be backed-up with the independent testing proof of the CE standards. For example, manufacturers can market armor as "impact protectors" only if the pieces meet the requirements or simply "padding" if it is not intended to provide a safety advantage.

The CE standards for impact protectors do not specify any type of construction, strictly performance and coverage area.
There are 2 standards that cover motorcylcist impact protectors. One for limb/joint pieces and the another for back protectors. Each provides various levels of performance based on energy absorption/force transmission.

The CE LIMB/JOINT PROTECTOR standard is labeled EN1621-1.

It allows joint/limb armor to transmit no more than 35kN of force.

Ratings are based on performance at an impact energy of 50, 75, or 100 joules creating three levels of performance within this standard.

LEVEL 1, BASIC--50 joules

LEVEL 2, HIGH PERFORMANCE--75 joules

LEVEL 3, EXTREME PERFROMANCE--100 joules


The CE BACK PROTECTOR standard is labeled EN1621-2. The test is performed with a 5kg "kerbstone" dropped from one meter to create the test impact energy of 50 Joules. The standard contains two levels of force transmission performance, using the same impact energy.

[email protected] passes LEVEL 1 compliance.

[email protected] passes LEVEL 2 or "high performance" compliance.

The fact that CE approved armor is tested and proven is the most important point. No other forms of so-called "armor" make claims of protection and/or provide credible evidence of performance. If a company is not willing to show performance results, we shouldn't be buying their products when other, actual certified products exist.

Here's some additional sources of info on proper impact protectors and CE testing:

http://www.bmf.co.uk/briefing/brief24.html

http://www.tprobodyarmour.co.uk or www.johnsonleather.com/armor

http://www.bksleather.co.uk/techno.htm

http://www.erbo.de/en/etouring/index.html

http://www.planet-knox.com/Knox/index.asp

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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More good reading from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_armor

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 10:35 PM
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Good source for Forcefield

http://www.johnsonleather.com/type-b_limbs.htm


By the way, that is a really cool Vanson that you have!

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4Cammer View Post
Good source for Forcefield

http://www.johnsonleather.com/type-b_limbs.htm

By the way, that is a really cool Vanson that you have!
Thanks for that link! That's what I was lookn' for!

Oh, and I hear your Vanson is kinda ghey!

Thanks again my friend.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-20-2007, 11:34 PM
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bubblewrap - you can layer on as much protection as you want and it's easy to find replacement parts

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-21-2007, 08:51 PM
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As long as we're talking about Vanson's armor, let me put this in here.

I have their hard armor in the track suit--naturally enough since it comes with. It feels sturdy enough. I've crashed once in it, a relatively slow lowside that sent me rolling, and got no injuries out of it. That's made out of closed cell foam with a hard plastic shell, which is generally fine for multiple hits.

I've got Vanson's soft armor in my street jacket and pants. It's much lighter than the hard armor and not as restrictive, and really much better for street use where you might be going in for a burger or something. It also lets you fold or roll the jacket more easily. I've crashed at low speed two or three times in it, and again, no significant injuries. I suspect that it won't protect as well in a hard hit, though, or a good hit against a narrow edge since it can't distribute the force as widely.

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