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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Christian vs. Mormans (No Pay-Per-View)

http://www.break.com/index/christian...s-mormons.html

Ok, this isn't to start a huge theological war. I don't post this for blasphemy of anyone's belief or even disbelief in God. I just thought it interesting and a little humorous.

Some of the things said I would like to look up but for the most part you have to know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. Religion is no exception.

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 05:03 PM
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nice

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 05:08 PM
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My dad did not teach me much but he always stuck by to hard and fast rules.

Never ever buy a used car from a Dealer on Western Ave.

and

Never follow a religion started by a guy named John Smith

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 05:13 PM
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all hail xenu!

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest - Denis Diderot
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 05:53 PM
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So if there are so many religions out there, which one is the right one?

NONE!

So what start wars?
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 06:08 PM
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John Smith believes that Mormons cant take off on a treadmill

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 12:19 AM
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My thoughts on religion. . . . Try and be a good person, whatever your definition of that is, and hope for the best. Who the fuck knows. . . . .
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 01:52 AM
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So if there are so many religions out there, which one is the right one?

NONE!

So what start wars?
People like Bush
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 08:43 AM
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So what start wars?
Straight from the Bible, here's the answer to that question,

James 4:1 - 3:

1. What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?
2. You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God.
3. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

Seems to me that "Religion" gets blamed for lots of things, people are the problem.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 08:51 AM
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Then it should have been written in simpler language, because people have been fighting for it for a long time.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
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People like Bush
Oh, ya, thas right....

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Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
Straight from the Bible, here's the answer to that question,

James 4:1 - 3:

1. What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?
2. You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God.
3. When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

Seems to me that "Religion" gets blamed for lots of things, people are the problem.
Hey Ron, I'm not much of a religion buff, but have studied my fair share of History. I'm not going to debate or argue about this, but if you look at a certain chain of events, History will prove with facts that religion is the primary reason for wars.

There are sometimes no direct relations between the two, so you look a little deeper, why are there governments? Why are there tax collectors? What was the first form of a business? "You want something, but don't get it." Want and need are two different things... I think if I wanted to run a 1:11 at blackhawk that I could, but I would NEED to have a bike that is faster than Mopar's...

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 11:03 AM
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Damn, that was good!
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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I give thee these 15 commandments! (CRASH) These 10, 10 commandments!

Look guys the way I see it is like this. There was always multiple beliefs. Way before Christ even. The thing is though there will never be just one. And also I don't believe only ONE is the right religion.
I believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost and think that the events in the Bible are for the most part true and people have to remember it's also a history book.

Humans will always be the problem - ALWAYS. Free will baby. To me the Bible is pretty simple to understand AS A WHOLE and the arguments of your interpretation or mine is just personal outlooks that distort what was laid out to be followed to the best of our ability. Wars come from that. Wars come from what one group wants and what another despises. Wars come from greed and selfish intent.

Some religions were created just so a person could have a divorce (a King from England but I won't mention his name lol)! Those that get fed up with the different religions leave God all together and just try to be a "nice person".

Free will is a mother! Personally I'll try to follow the scriptures as best I can. I do not believe that the Bible was tampered with and even if it was, what in it is so outrageous that I shouldn't follow what in it? Aye lads?

Here it is I type I don't want a debate and I type all that stuff! I believe hypocrite is in the Bible too. My picture might even be in there!

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 01:28 PM
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Hey Ron, I'm not much of a religion buff, but have studied my fair share of History. I'm not going to debate or argue about this, but if you look at a certain chain of events, History will prove with facts that religion is the primary reason for wars.
+1, no debate or argument needed or wanted. However, intelligent and respectful conversation very much sought.

Let me be clear , I do not want to defend "religion". In fact I can't stand "religion". However, I do love God and am all about "relationship", BIG difference in my opinion.

Whether we are talking about a fight between a Mother / daughter, Father / son, boyfriend / girlfriend, husband / wife, two friends, siblings, families, two villages, two cities, two countries or a full blown world war, the only difference is the size and scope.

We don't get what we want and/or things are not going our way so we get frustrated / irritated / angry and then try to forcefully change things through words and actions.

You are certainly right that history reveals many cases where people have fought wars in the name of a various religions, however that simply proves my point doesn't it?

My view is that "religion" is not really to blame because "religion" is simply a construct of man, much like the various forms of governments and many other things. People are the ones that take up arms and kill other people. People are to blame. The root cause is people, more specifically the fallen condition of people.

Your thoughts?

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 01:28 PM
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it shouldnt take the bible to teach the simple lesson of treating others the way you want to be treated. that takes common sense. if you need to refer to the bible for how to live your life these days then you might have some issues and probably shouldnt be interacting with other people. go find a padded cornerless room and youll be ok. the closure you need CAN be found!

i dont see why people cant just say "i believe in god, i dont believe in god" and call it a day. but nope, there has to be this giant belief system and canon to follow, when none of it applies to 2008. especially when nobody knows. is it so hard to say "i dont know if there is a god".

ah well, keep arguing with each other over whose a profit, err prophet, and keep arguing over the petty differences, and who gives a bad name to your cult.

hix is right though, religion is a construct of man. i also believe god is a construct of man but nevertheless people need to take responsibility for themselves.

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest - Denis Diderot

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 01:41 PM
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it shouldnt take the bible to teach the simple lesson of treating others the way you want to be treated. that takes common sense. if you need to refer to the bible for how to live your life these days then you might have some issues and probably shouldnt be interacting with other people. go find a padded cornerless room and youll be ok.
Uh oh, I am worse off than I thought!

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i dont see why people cant just say "i believe in god, i dont believe in god" and call it a day. but nope, there has to be this giant belief system and canon to follow, when none of it applies to 2008.
Lots of things have changed over time, but people are not one of them...we are still the same now as we have always been and our struggles are still the same. Killing, lying, cheating, courage, bravery, loneliness, love, hate, anger, etc., etc...it is all the same. Circumstances are different, people are the same. The Bible applies to 2008 for this reason.

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hix is right though...
+1,

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 01:51 PM
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Uh oh, I am worse off than I thought!



Lots of things have changed over time, but people are not one of them...we are still the same now as we have always been and our struggles are still the same. Killing, lying, cheating, courage, bravery, loneliness, love, hate, anger, etc., etc...it is all the same. Circumstances are different, people are the same. The Bible applies to 2008 for this reason.



+1,
neener ftw!

if you truly believe that you need the bible to live and teach you how to treat other people humanely, then yes you might be in trouble

theres a reason people have not changed over time. especially those of particular faiths. which is another issue i have personally with the whole ordeal. children being raised and not even given a fighting chance to think for themselves. i think i was brought into a church in preschool, put in front of this strange looking dead man on a cross and told he was going to come back to life one day and take us all away, which of course sent me into hysterics.

but seriously, if say a kid was brought up with knowledge of the world, if you tried to tell some 18yo or 21yo these stories about miracles and an invisible man in the sky, they would probably look at you like

but children are brought up these days to believe that they will go to hell. like you said religion is a construct of man, i think a real world matrix that is built around control. if it wasnt around, it wouldnt to be misunderstood, like the bible or any book of faith usually is. just look at any extremist.

there needs to be a severe revamping in the way the idea of god is introduced to this and future generations, or as you said history, people.. are doomed to repeat themselves over and over again.

im all about the teachings of jesus christ. do i think he was the son of god? no. but i think he represents the way humanity should be, as i said earlier "do unto others". but i also said and believe you dont need the bible for that teaching, or even jesus nonetheless. its something that is so simple, yet radical and cannot be misinterpreted. you dont want to be killed, so dont kill someone, you dont want your things stolen, dont take from others. you want honor and respect? give honor and respect. and so forth.

but extremists, evangelicals, all bring up their children with this belief structure that as most normal "religious" humans would say is giving the rest of them a bad name. well there shouldnt be a way they are associated with you in the first place. believe in god or dont, keep it at that and live yourself a good life. what else is there to it? i just cant seem to find the confusion that most people of faith seem to have.

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest - Denis Diderot

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
My view is that "religion" is not really to blame because "religion" is simply a construct of man, much like the various forms of governments and many other things. People are the ones that take up arms and kill other people. People are to blame. The root cause is people, more specifically the fallen condition of people.

Your thoughts?
+10000

Faith is not the same as religion. I have faith in god. I see religions as a tool created by man to sell his/her own motives. What better way to get people to join your own bandwagon then to claim the driver of your bandwagon is God himself. People by nature crave power, territory, respect, etc.. they will go to great lengths and horrific evils to aquire these "things". We are not much different from animals in that respect. It's just how we were created ...by god. Imperfect.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 02:11 PM
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+10000

Faith is not the same as religion. I have faith in god. I see religions as a tool created by man to sell his/her own motives. What better way to get people to join your own bandwagon then to claim the driver of your bandwagon is God himself. People by nature crave power, territory, respect, etc.. they will go to great lengths and horrific evils to aquire these "things". We are not much different from animals in that respect. It's just how we were created ...by god. Imperfect.
this is true. this 18yo girl i worked with, goes to church at some placed called Family Harvest along i80. the church itself is a mansion. the pastor there is an ex-con (drugs) who "found jesus" in jail. this girls family gives 15% of their income to the church AFTER TAXES. and cant afford to send their child to college so she herself has to work just to afford to send herself to community college. the priest drives around i think in a bentley, and lives in a 6 million dollar house.

she thinks gay people will go to hell and that she has no choice in life over her baby and that its the mans decision what to do with it. (which is pretty good to some guys, im sure theyd love to decide for her )

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 02:22 PM
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Agreed, many people are messed up, and many hide behind religion to excuse or rationalize their own nasty deplorable acts. Those nut-cases in the middle east are no different than Hitler, they are just using a tweaked excuse for doing the same crap. Like BA said, you don't need the bible to realize you want others to treat you well, and that you should do the same so others will not want to hurt you. The problem with many religions today is that they start to brain wash people and get them away from their basic common sense knowledge, and when this happens, they are capable of doing anything in the name of their warped beliefs .

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 03:46 PM
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+1, no debate or argument needed or wanted. However, intelligent and respectful conversation very much sought.

Let me be clear , I do not want to defend "religion". In fact I can't stand "religion". However, I do love God and am all about "relationship", BIG difference in my opinion.

Whether we are talking about a fight between a Mother / daughter, Father / son, boyfriend / girlfriend, husband / wife, two friends, siblings, families, two villages, two cities, two countries or a full blown world war, the only difference is the size and scope.

We don't get what we want and/or things are not going our way so we get frustrated / irritated / angry and then try to forcefully change things through words and actions.

You are certainly right that history reveals many cases where people have fought wars in the name of a various religions, however that simply proves my point doesn't it?

My view is that "religion" is not really to blame because "religion" is simply a construct of man, much like the various forms of governments and many other things. People are the ones that take up arms and kill other people. People are to blame. The root cause is people, more specifically the fallen condition of people.

Your thoughts?
Nope I can't argue or provide much feedback there, I agree.

Especially that las paragraph, "religion is simply a construct of man..." It shapes our cultures and our viewpoints. With that said, this is where I get my narrow minded idea of religion being the root cause of "wars".

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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-04-2008, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Sunday School

Hey Burntash it's not so much if you need the Bible to tell you howl to behave but more so a history and examples. Nothing wrong with that. There are many chapters in the Bible that are inspiring as well as insightful. It's not just a book of "rules".

The example of the girl you know is just that - an example. The church I used to go to there in Chicago wasn't like that at all. The pastor actually lived off of the donations. No fancy car or clothes as a reward. Mind you there were accountants and such but you could go talk to him and even just hang out with him. And this at the time had about 2000 members. For every bad scenario there is a good one. So I personally don't go off of one or two things to get an overall outlook.

Addressing some other points made by other peeps - I think everyone getting off on a tangent about howl people are is a dark hole of uselessness. We all know people can be whatever. That's why I mentioned free will.

Still control is a huge factor over all and as you look at history I don't see "religion" as the fault. I see people trying to bend it to their way is.

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-04-2008, 12:31 PM
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The guy in the vid acted way too righteous for me. He could have just said, "No thank you, boys.". They would have proceeded to their next possible convert. It's not like the skinny white boys in suits with shorts were out lookin' for someone to "cap". He was just itchin' for a confrontation so he could look cool in the presence of his homies. People start wars, not the bible. The bible didn't pull the trigger on that TOW missle.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-04-2008, 12:39 PM
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Still control is a huge factor over all and as you look at history I don't see "religion" as the fault. I see people trying to bend it to their way is.
And that is where the problem lies. It's when people think their God is better than your God. Worship whomever you want just don't thrust your beliefs onto others. He's your God not mine.

"The man who makes me your enemy, it is he who be the guilty one....Here I abandoned peace and desecrated law; fortune it is you I follow. Farewell to treaties. From now on war is our judge!"
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-06-2008, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SloRoll View Post
The guy in the vid acted way too righteous for me. He could have just said, "No thank you, boys.". They would have proceeded to their next possible convert. It's not like the skinny white boys in suits with shorts were out lookin' for someone to "cap". He was just itchin' for a confrontation so he could look cool in the presence of his homies. People start wars, not the bible. The bible didn't pull the trigger on that TOW missle.
True, he could've said no thanks but instead chose to give them a chance to speak as well as say his viewpoints. What's wrong with that? What makes that so confrontational? And the camera was there before these boys came up to him. We don't know why or what was up.
The boys were confrontational IMO and couldn't handle someone not wanting their particular "knowledge". So guess they were trying to "cap" and got "capped" back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maoisn View Post
And that is where the problem lies. It's when people think their God is better than your God. Worship whomever you want just don't thrust your beliefs onto others. He's your God not mine.
If nothing was forced we wouldn't have Christmas!

Loki is commentator for other sites as well as the publications: Who's Booty Is That On My Face Magazine, Fart Life and written the self-help book, What To Say To Comments About Your Crack Whore Mom.

Last edited by Loki_D_Wolf; 02-06-2008 at 09:11 AM.
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