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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Who Killed the Electric Car

Has anyone seen this movie?
I just moved it up to the top of my netflix queue...
Looks like it might be interesting

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Kil...4?trkid=214017

I am not sure if you can see that without being logged in or not...
It has a preview...

If not..

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

has anyone on here seen this?

THis was pre-tesla .. too.. That thing is bad ass!
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 09:50 PM
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I wasn't too impressed by it. It's basically the story of Cali being assholes and forcing manufacturers to produce zero emission cars, and a few hippies who had them who got all wet over losing them.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 10:00 PM
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Interesting documentary of why the electric car never caught on. GM wouldn't even sell them to people. They had to be leased. And in the end they all got put into the crusher instead of being sold to people who really wanted them. Big oil buying battery technology and such.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 10:01 PM
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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So I have a vote of it being interesting...
and a vote of it being shite.
I need one more vote to tip the scales
....
someone who has seen the movie please
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 10:45 PM
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I think we just had this thread a little while ago.

And it's decent. You'd love it since you seem like you're into the conspiracy stuff.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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nobody seems to get it...
im not into conspiracy theories specifically
i am just an information freak...
I used to read all of my text books the first week of school (not math.. but soc, lit, history etc...)
i don't trust the government... but i am not sure if that makes you crazy or observant...

but your probably right.. I probably will like it.. I am leaving it in the queue...

I also had a boring mostly automated job ... which I suppose I am mostly to blame for... and that led to a LAWT of time to sit on the internet reading..
heh which tends to make you a bit nuts
which is also why I pretty much cut out reading news this week.. I think I was getting a bit wierd

Now all that said.. I think people come off a bit different online than they are in real life... Little people act big.. big people act (little?) different... people act a way.. coupled with the fact that you lose that whole sense of context and expression you have in human to human interactions... emoticons and lol don't do such a great job of filling that void.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 11:30 PM
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It was ok. A movie to make a few enthusiasts feel good and once again make a "big bad company" look like baby killers.

I am willing to entertain evil motives may have led to purposely poor marketing or only leasing. Or that electric vehicles are a superior alternative to cars with IC engines.

But does the film present much of the other side, as any good unbiased documentary should? Not much from what I remember. How much time did they cover on how much GM had invested to design that car? How much GM possibly lost on every one they leased? How much it would cost GM to continue to stock and keep parts available for these people who wanted to buy them? The liability GM may incur when accidents or other unknown incidents occured with this new technology? Maybe the fact that GM researched and found that they hit a dead end in the technology and felt investment in other technologies would be more beneficial? Maybe GM knew the design had flaws that would come out in higher mileage and wanted to take them back for more research to keep an even worse backlash from "poor quality" complaints. What happens when someone wrecks one real bad and claims it is because of it being an electric car, something inherent to its design? The drain on the electrical grid (don't they already have rolling brown outs in CA) if everyone drives an all electric car? They do not even give much credit to GM for putting it out in the first place. None of the other companies seemed to spend as much on developing an ev car like GM, give them credit for at least trying to make the technology work. Very few of those experts that claim all the benefits of an ev car seemed to be real engineers who have to design automobiles for consumers. They are average Joe's that assume technology is tantamount to magic and expect that every technical problem has an easy solution. And of course the EV1 was perfection that should be rammed down everyones throats, whether we all like it or not.

Again, interesting information, but I did not think it was very balanced. Worth a look if you are bored. It was cool to see how passionate some of the owners were about the cars though. They were more fanatical about that product than Ferrari or Ducati owners.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2008, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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good points...
in all the talk of electric cars being green... nobody ever mentions that the majority of electricity is created by burning coal.... Which last I heard tends to release a bit of co2 into the atmosphere...
I suppose there is the difference in it not coming out of *your* cars tailpipe.. but.. unless they are burning the coal on the moon.. isn't it still going into *our* air?

I know they have those new systems that divert the co2 into the ground, and one into algae growth pods (well like 10% of it anyway)... I imagine they are in use in... maybe a couple coal fired generation plants...
(i think china derives 85% and US about 60-70% from coal... china figure on wikipedia.. not going to keep searching for us figure.. look how much coal we burn)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal

maybe if we burn coal, use the co2 and sunlight to make algae.. power half the cars on electricity, and the other half on algae diesel... then we'll have something.. right?

Coal figures

Quote:
Coal as fuel
See also Clean coal technology and Fossil fuel power plant
Coal is primarily used as a solid fuel to produce electricity and heat through combustion. World coal consumption is about 6.2 billion tons annually, of which about 75% is used for the production of electricity. China produced 2.38 billion tonnes in 2006 and India produced about 447.3 million tonnes in 2006. 83.2% of China's electricity comes from coal. The USA consumes about 1.053 billion tonnes of coal each year, using 90% of it for generation of electricity. The world in total produced 6.19 billion tonnes of coal in 2006.

When coal is used for electricity generation, it is usually pulverized and then burned in a furnace with a boiler. The furnace heat converts boiler water to steam, which is then used to spin turbines which turn generators and create electricity. The thermodynamic efficiency of this process has been improved over time. "Standard" steam turbines have topped out with some of the most advanced reaching about 35% thermodynamic efficiency for the entire process, which means 65% of the coal energy is rejected as waste heat into the surrounding environment. Old coal power plants, especially "grandfathered" plants, are significantly less efficient and reject higher levels of waste heat.

The emergence of the supercritical turbine concept envisions running a boiler at extremely high temperatures and pressures with projected efficiencies of 46%, with further theorized increases in temperature and pressure perhaps resulting in even higher efficiencies.[8]

Other efficient ways to use coal are combined cycle power plants, combined heat and power cogeneration, and an MHD topping cycle.

Approximately 40% of the world electricity production uses coal. The total known deposits recoverable by current technologies, including highly polluting, low energy content types of coal (i.e., lignite, bituminous), might be sufficient for 300 years' use at current consumption levels, although maximal production could be reached within decades (see World Coal Reserves, below).

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 08:46 AM
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78montecarlo View Post
It was ok. A movie to make a few enthusiasts feel good and once again make a "big bad company" look like baby killers.

I am willing to entertain evil motives may have led to purposely poor marketing or only leasing. Or that electric vehicles are a superior alternative to cars with IC engines.

But does the film present much of the other side, as any good unbiased documentary should? Not much from what I remember. How much time did they cover on how much GM had invested to design that car? How much GM possibly lost on every one they leased? How much it would cost GM to continue to stock and keep parts available for these people who wanted to buy them? The liability GM may incur when accidents or other unknown incidents occured with this new technology? Maybe the fact that GM researched and found that they hit a dead end in the technology and felt investment in other technologies would be more beneficial? Maybe GM knew the design had flaws that would come out in higher mileage and wanted to take them back for more research to keep an even worse backlash from "poor quality" complaints. What happens when someone wrecks one real bad and claims it is because of it being an electric car, something inherent to its design? The drain on the electrical grid (don't they already have rolling brown outs in CA) if everyone drives an all electric car? They do not even give much credit to GM for putting it out in the first place. None of the other companies seemed to spend as much on developing an ev car like GM, give them credit for at least trying to make the technology work. Very few of those experts that claim all the benefits of an ev car seemed to be real engineers who have to design automobiles for consumers. They are average Joe's that assume technology is tantamount to magic and expect that every technical problem has an easy solution. And of course the EV1 was perfection that should be rammed down everyones throats, whether we all like it or not.

Again, interesting information, but I did not think it was very balanced. Worth a look if you are bored. It was cool to see how passionate some of the owners were about the cars though. They were more fanatical about that product than Ferrari or Ducati owners.
There's no doubt GM lost money on the cars. The R&D and set up for a lease was not a money maker but a test subject. GM would of gone a long way if they would of just let the people buy the cars back instead of destroying them. The Volt which looks fairly close to production may close the gap. GM is really good at promoting all their alterny fuel cars, are they going to build one or wait for the Japs to take the lead?
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 08:53 AM
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The documentary took the angle not only againts big oil but GM & the automakers againts CA's tough emission standards. They have been battling in court for years.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 08:14 PM
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Do they talk about the National City Lines conspiracy too? That one's always fun.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 08:24 PM
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Do they talk about the National City Lines conspiracy too? That one's always fun.
huh? Not familar with this one. I don't see this documentary as a conspiracy theory. Big oil not wanting a competing technology to impact future sales, CA fighting with the big three automakers. This is nothing new and not really a conspiracy theory... it is more like fact.

Either way.. do you have opinion on this topic or are you just being an asshole?

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 08:42 PM
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huh? Not familar with this one.
Sure you are, it's only the framing story to Who Framed Roger Rabbit after all.

Basically it's that, in the 1940s, General Motors wanted to sell more buses, so they set up a subsidiary, National City Lines, to buy up all the existing city streetcar systems and dismantle them. Thus, why there are next to no streetcars or interurbans left from a vast system that stretched from New York to Iowa at its peak.

As usual, it's a mix of about one part fact to five parts hyperbole and paranoia.

(edit)
Quote:
Either way.. do you have opinion on this topic or are you just being an asshole?
Oh, see, now you're just getting cranky, is all. That's my opinion.

Also that we really haven't gotten to the point in battery technology that we can make a battery efficient enough to compete with the internal combustion engine for range and power output all on its own. That's going to mess up the mass-marketability of any vehicle, conspiracy or no.

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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2008, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrand View Post
Sure you are, it's only the framing story to Who Framed Roger Rabbit after all.

Basically it's that, in the 1940s, General Motors wanted to sell more buses, so they set up a subsidiary, National City Lines, to buy up all the existing city streetcar systems and dismantle them. Thus, why there are next to no streetcars or interurbans left from a vast system that stretched from New York to Iowa at its peak.

As usual, it's a mix of about one part fact to five parts hyperbole and paranoia.

(edit)


Oh, see, now you're just getting cranky, is all. That's my opinion.

Also that we really haven't gotten to the point in battery technology that we can make a battery efficient enough to compete with the internal combustion engine for range and power output all on its own. That's going to mess up the mass-marketability of any vehicle, conspiracy or no.
I misinterpreted your streetcar reference for something else entirely, my bad... Battery technology or not, it appears GM had a solution some people really wanted. It is not feasible for the mass public yet but enough to create awareness. It turned out to be a bad PR move..

Nothing at this point competes with the internal combustion engine for performace at a cost point combined with distance requirements. All new technology is going to have a ramp up period. GM needs help as it loses share to Toyota, Honda and so on..

It is naive to assume there is not a concerted effort to keep oil #1. It's where the money's at and old technology.. I believe they do reference the bus/street car question? It has been a while since I watched it.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrand View Post
\


Oh, see, now you're just getting cranky, is all. That's my opinion.

Also that we really haven't gotten to the point in battery technology that we can make a battery efficient enough to compete with the internal combustion engine for range and power output all on its own. That's going to mess up the mass-marketability of any vehicle, conspiracy or no.
I understand toshiba (think them) has a battery that is about to go into production.. I believe this year, not sure which quarter that charged 90-95% in 5 minutes... It will be used in automobiles...
Pretty incredible from a tech standpoint.. Not just limited to cars.. Imagine the possibilities for everything from RC Cars, to laptops to cameras.. to whatever.. It would change the way we view and use a # of technologies.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Nothing at this point competes with the internal combustion engine for performace at a cost point combined with distance requirements. All new technology is going to have a ramp up period. GM needs help as it loses share to Toyota, Honda and so on..
Performancewise electricity is actually quite good... When you add in distance and cost.. It gets a bit worse... Cost, well that would partially be helped by economy of scale...

There are the fancy racey electric cars, Tesla comes to mind..
There are also people out there who drag race custom electrics, do they compare with a top fuel or a funny car? No... Would they blow the doors off of most muscle cars.. Almost certainly.. Ever see that electric drag racing motorcycle? Damn.

I remember reading a few years back about these wierd little cars.. 2 seaters (1 front 1 back) they looked like dorky little rectangles... They did 0-60 in under 4 seconds... They were like 80+k though...
Can't recall the name.. THink they were made in the USA and small batches, you could buy assembled or put together yourself as a kit...

1 karma point for whoever remembers (or googles.. i'm tired.. going to bed) what they are/were if they even still exist and posts it here.

check this out.. Electric Drag Racing Motorcycle
http://www.killacycle.com/
7.824 @168 MPH !!!!!! at Pomona AHDRA Nov 10th
The KillaCycle made drag racing history at Pomona this weekend when we became the FIRST electric-powered vehicle to make a SEVEN-SECOND PASS in the 1/4 mile.

To quote HST
"Do you have the balls to ride this BOTTOMLESS PIT OF TORQUE?"
I know he was referring to something else.. It was a long time ago.. Don't tell Mao, he'll get all torqued....
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Holy Poo!
This guy made one out of an Ariel Atom!!!!!!!
Dude
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Well I found the car... Now to figure out how to rep myself

http://www.commutercars.com/
Acceleration:

0 to 60 MPH, about 4 seconds. 1/4 mile time about 12 seconds at a speed of approximately 120 MPH. These figures are based on comparisons with other cars that hold official records with NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing Association). Calculations have taken weight, motor torque, controller, voltage, gear ratio, and traction into consideration. They assume that racing slicks are fitted and driven on a drag strip with good traction conditions. For example, the world record held for a dragster used the same controller as the Tango in the Current Eliminator IV, with a quarter mile time of 8.801 seconds at 137.65 MPH. The Tango has the same motors that the Maniac Mazda used to achieve an 11.039 second quarter mile at 111.80 MPH.

Top Speed:

150 MPH. This is a limitation based on a practical red-line for the motors of about 8,000 RPM with the standard 3.25:1 gear ratio. Top speed vs. acceleration can be traded off by choosing any of 10 different ratios from 2.92:1 giving a top speed of 172 MPH to 5:1 which would give a top speed of 100 MPH. The 5:1 would give phenomenal acceleration if you could get enough traction.

Now look at the dorky little thing..


I would love to take this thing to Doty road and race for pinks.. hahah


autocrossing


WHile your at it.. Check these out.. Different production models
http://www.evworld.com/guide_bev.cfm?evtype=production
some of them are pretty sweet

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 02:44 AM
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Control (not Janet Jackson's version)

Just remember GConsier, if you're not thinking what everyone else is it's always propaganda/conspiracy. It is now the norm to never question authority.

Didn't you see the movie Body Snatchers?! You better ask somebody!

To me the big 3 have always controlled what we have. Those same people that think movies like this are b.s. rarely come up with why. I'll give you simple proof - isn't it something that when people finally realize that we are killing the ozone that all of a sudden hybrid cars are produced almost instantly? Hmmmm

SUCKAS!

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 05:52 AM
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It was a very interesting doc. Putting all the anti-tree hugger bias aside and giving it a clean look and you may wonder why the hell the gov. or oil companies worked so hard to destroy these cars. You wonder how much GM was paid to kill this program after all the billions they spent making it (if they did at all ). Really wonder why it is such a big deal to make a vehicle that runs off something other than gas. I could are less if someone made a car that runs off piss, what do I care. Different fueled vehicles can share the road.....

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 08:19 AM
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It was a very interesting doc. Putting all the anti-tree hugger bias aside and giving it a clean look and you may wonder why the hell the gov. or oil companies worked so hard to destroy these cars. You wonder how much GM was paid to kill this program after all the billions they spent making it (if they did at all ). Really wonder why it is such a big deal to make a vehicle that runs off something other than gas. I could are less if someone made a car that runs off piss, what do I care. Different fueled vehicles can share the road.....

Under200
There are several reasons to move away from oil. It does cause pollution and I don't think anyone can argue that. If you believe in global warming due to elevated CO2 in the atmosphere, there is another. Others will argue coal to produce electricity will also pollute and release CO2. This is true but not to the same extent and there is technology to limit it. There are other means of producing electricity which need to be looked at

#2. Oil is not an unlimited resource. Sooner or later it will become scarce leaving us no choice. What will prices of oil be in the years leading up to a huge switch over.. $5.00 per gallon, $6.00...$10.00


#3 The middle east. Do you think our military or government would be half as interested if 80%+ of the World's oil did not come from there? The U.S. economy is dependent on it... IF they want to blow each other up, let them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki_D_Wolf View Post
Just remember GConsier, if you're not thinking what everyone else is it's always propaganda/conspiracy. It is now the norm to never question authority.

Didn't you see the movie Body Snatchers?! You better ask somebody!

To me the big 3 have always controlled what we have. Those same people that think movies like this are b.s. rarely come up with why. I'll give you simple proof - isn't it something that when people finally realize that we are killing the ozone that all of a sudden hybrid cars are produced almost instantly? Hmmmm

SUCKAS!
All my life I realized I thought differently than everyone else...
I think I think a lot more "normally" now than I ever have in my life...
Kinda sucks....
Which is not to say that I am brilliant or a moron.. Probably somewhere in between...
I just always saw things from a different angle from most...
I guess it's not that uncommon... Think about it, they say there are two things about comedians...
1: timing
2: they see the world differently than the rest of us do...
Not that I am very funny
In any case.. I guess that's why a conspiracy theorist.. or at least considered one...
I always doubt everything.. I doubt the news (have had enough personal experience with it to know how truthful it is) I doubt the conspiracy theories.. I doubt it all... and keep reading... Sometimes I find something that I think people here will find interesting, or I am curious of an outside of that world opinion (ever read the comments on those threads? they are better than the articles..) so I post it here.. You get comments from both sides here... Providing insight into whatever the issue is.. I may be wrong, but aside from planning rides.. I kinda assumed that's what this place was all about (the conversation and opinions.. not conspiracy theories.. dont go there )


I think seeing things different over the years has made me better not worse at my job... I am familiar with Occams razor... That said.. In general if I was being called to look into something.. and say I was the 3rd person to look at it.. I wouldnt start back over with all of the obvious, I would assume my people knew what they were doing.. and I would think more "what haven't they tried" than ... "reboot" (sorry. windows joke)

Made a lot of stupid mistakes, but did my best to remember them.. Aside from crashing motorcycles.. I'd say I have been pretty good at not repeating.. and hell on that front I have never crashed the same way twice.. So I figure I have only 1001 more crashes to go or so before I eliminate all of the common ways you can crash a bike

In any case.. A buddy of mine whom I respect a lot told me I had to read the 4 hour work week... I normally am not a big fan of fad diets or self help type books... It's sitting in my bag.. a little more than halfway through... but.. reading it I realized.. That guy thinks just like I do. I dont think I could have wrote the book nearly as well (I also think he could have maybe wrote it a bit better.. but hell I think the Pats could have played a bit better of a game last week... not that I could have personally.. but.. whatever)

now all of that was leading to this.
I am going to quote someone who did speak a lot better than me... The first quote was from the 4 hour work week book... The others I just looked up to post here (wouldnt want to misquote no?)

Everything popular is wrong.
Oscar Wilde


A man who does not think for himself does not think at all.
Oscar Wilde

An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all.
Oscar Wilde


and finally..
This one sums up this post pretty well

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
Oscar Wilde
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2008, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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How you found us: some guy at the IBM credit union told me about it
           
Just came in.
Just hit play...
OK.. it starts with a funeral.. hmmm.
I would have to say that was starting on a negative note...
hey .. is that Martin Sheen?

I'll give em half a point for that..
Subtracting the point for the cheese dick funeral in the beginning we are at negative half a point
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 01:55 PM
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"I am what I am and that's all what I am" - Popeye

Quote:
Originally Posted by gconsier View Post
All my life I realized I thought differently than everyone else...
I think I think a lot more "normally" now than I ever have in my life...
Kinda sucks....
Which is not to say that I am brilliant or a moron.. Probably somewhere in between...
I just always saw things from a different angle from most...
I guess it's not that uncommon... Think about it, they say there are two things about comedians...
1: timing
2: they see the world differently than the rest of us do...
Not that I am very funny
In any case.. I guess that's why a conspiracy theorist.. or at least considered one...
I always doubt everything.. I doubt the news (have had enough personal experience with it to know how truthful it is) I doubt the conspiracy theories.. I doubt it all... and keep reading... Sometimes I find something that I think people here will find interesting, or I am curious of an outside of that world opinion (ever read the comments on those threads? they are better than the articles..) so I post it here.. You get comments from both sides here... Providing insight into whatever the issue is.. I may be wrong, but aside from planning rides.. I kinda assumed that's what this place was all about (the conversation and opinions.. not conspiracy theories.. dont go there )


I think seeing things different over the years has made me better not worse at my job... I am familiar with Occams razor... That said.. In general if I was being called to look into something.. and say I was the 3rd person to look at it.. I wouldnt start back over with all of the obvious, I would assume my people knew what they were doing.. and I would think more "what haven't they tried" than ... "reboot" (sorry. windows joke)

Made a lot of stupid mistakes, but did my best to remember them.. Aside from crashing motorcycles.. I'd say I have been pretty good at not repeating.. and hell on that front I have never crashed the same way twice.. So I figure I have only 1001 more crashes to go or so before I eliminate all of the common ways you can crash a bike

In any case.. A buddy of mine whom I respect a lot told me I had to read the 4 hour work week... I normally am not a big fan of fad diets or self help type books... It's sitting in my bag.. a little more than halfway through... but.. reading it I realized.. That guy thinks just like I do. I dont think I could have wrote the book nearly as well (I also think he could have maybe wrote it a bit better.. but hell I think the Pats could have played a bit better of a game last week... not that I could have personally.. but.. whatever)

now all of that was leading to this.
I am going to quote someone who did speak a lot better than me... The first quote was from the 4 hour work week book... The others I just looked up to post here (wouldnt want to misquote no?)

Everything popular is wrong.
Oscar Wilde


A man who does not think for himself does not think at all.
Oscar Wilde

An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all.
Oscar Wilde


and finally..
This one sums up this post pretty well

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
Oscar Wilde
Pretty kool read. I think we'll get along nicely. Just know most of the time I try to make my point then top it with a nice batch of sarcasm sprinkled with mischief. So definitely not calling YOU a conspiracy theorists. But in a sense I am. It's like me. If you don't go with the popular belief nowadays it's the first thing that comes out of peoples mouth. That and propaganda. I remember when it was ok to question the governments actions. Now it seems if you question ANYTHING you're not even patriotic!

I feel if someone is taking themselves too seriously or just makes it obvious that one point of view is the only one then they deserve to be poked at.

I believe common sense is more valuable than books in a school and with it you can basically realize what's fact and what isn't. If flexibility is involved even better.

The electric car - I believe it's been here. Do I have proof? No. But I do have common sense. And I realize that for the big 3 to almost instantly have a car ready for the public when the heat is on shows me that we are being hoodwinked! The technology is more intricate and more involved. They got those things out faster than a new graphic card for my pc!

People are people so why should it be..... oops. That song just came out of no where!

I think Mr. Wilde's quote, the first one you posted, is my favorite. And I see that all the time (a nice amount here) so when it happens - it's time to be Loki.

See ya in the next thread.

Loki is commentator for other sites as well as the publications: Who's Booty Is That On My Face Magazine, Fart Life and written the self-help book, What To Say To Comments About Your Crack Whore Mom.

Last edited by Loki_D_Wolf; 02-11-2008 at 01:58 PM.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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How you found us: some guy at the IBM credit union told me about it
           
I actually rather overall enjoyed the movie..
Say 3 to 3.5 stars (out of 5) and I am a tough reviewer...
Got my wife to watch it (or rather listen to it.. she watched it as she was on the net...) She actually started looking up electric cars... I showed her the Tesla .. and.. Damn. she actually asked "how much is this?" I said "100k" she said "only 5k to get on the list......" and i think she is thinking about it.. That car would FRIGGIN rock.
I cant imagine my first 6 figure car being electric.. but.. who knows... It definately would be more unique than another porsche.. or maybe a ferrari (much as I love Porsche they are the Grand Am's of chicago.. aren't they?)

I think a car like that is perfect for people like us in the city.. That said, we don't drive a lot of miles.. So really the gas prices aren't hitting us as hard as some of the people out in the country or worse in the country with huge v8 or v10 cars and trucks,.... but.. it'd be nice..

Personally I think an electric car would be a great second/commuter car..
but I would want a standard car for the areas where the electric is weak.. that said, many if not most families have multiple cars.. right?

The 5 minute rechargeable batteries could change that. IF it is a question of technology and not politics...
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/batteries...ars-332312.php

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_12/pr1101.htm

Let's be honest here.. They did demonize the oil industry and the government.. and as long as we are being honest.. That perhaps needs to be done. The oil industry is out to protect their profits, that is their job... That is really their only job (they are accountable to their shareholders) -- The govt.. Well everyone knows that the govt consists of people.. people are as a race almost always up for sale for the right price.. and the oil companies have a LOT of money.. Bush's and Cheneys admin have been very deep in bed with big oil... Since before they were an "administration" ... So.. COuld there be something to that? Of course.
Sorry all of you conspiracy theory haters.. Just remember what the word "conspire" means.. If you think these people are to stupid to plan ahead, you deserve to be a serf.

Last edited by iamnotgreg; 02-11-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 04:39 PM
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Chavez threatens to cut off oil to U.S. again today... This is what I'm sick of up, our cost basis on fuel dictated by dictators..

Overview Top News News Briefs Oil Prices Jump on Chavez Threat
By JOHN WILEN, AP Business Writer
5 HOURS AGO
NEW YORK - Oil futures shot higher for the third straight day Monday as concerns about potential overseas supply disruptions overshadowed worries about the cooling economy.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened Sunday to cut off oil sales to the U.S. as retaliation for court orders freezing assets belonging to Venezuela's state oil company. Exxon Mobil Corp. has gone after Petroleos de Venezuela SA in U.S., British and Dutch courts, challenging the nationalization by Chavez's government of a multibillion dollar oil project. A British court last week issued an injunction freezing as much as $12 billion in Petroleos' assets.

"If you end up freezing (Venezuelan assets) and it harms us, we're going to harm you," Chavez said. "Do you know how? We aren't going to send oil to the United States."

"How much credence you want to give him is always a question mark," said Mike Fitzpatrick, vice president of energy and risk management at MF Global LLC.

But traders were clearly worried about the potential cutoff of Venezuelan oil. Light, sweet crude for March delivery jumped $1.64 to $93.41 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange after spiking to $94.72 earlier, a one-month high.

Traders were also unnerved by new violence in Nigeria, Africa's largest oil producer and a major supplier to the U.S. On Monday, unidentified gunmen attacked a naval vessel that was escorting petroleum industry boats, killing one sailor and injuring another. Militant attacks have cut Nigeria's oil output by nearly one quarter in the past two years, helping send oil prices to all-time highs.

Concerns about supply disruptions overseas have temporarily drawn investors' focus away from the weakening U.S. economy, which had been the market's dominant theme. Worries that the economy is slowing, and demand for oil and its products is falling, have pushed prices down from a record above $100 a barrel in early January to nearly $86 in recent weeks.

Still, some analysts believe tight global supplies and efforts by Congress and the Federal Reserve to stimulate the economy will keep oil prices high for the foreseeable future. In a note to clients, analysts at Goldman Sachs said the impact of a recession on oil demand growth "is likely to be meaningful," but maintained its forecast that Nymex crude will be trading at $105 a barrel a year from now, Dow Jones Newswires reported.

At the pump, gas prices slipped 0.4 cent overnight to a national average of $2.953 a gallon, according to AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. Prices have mostly fallen lately, following oil's decline from its January record. But the Energy Department and many analysts expect prices to rebound in the spring and rise to new records near $3.50 a gallon.

Other energy futures also rose Monday. March heating oil futures rose 5.87cents to $2.6128 a gallon on the Nymex, and March gasoline futures rose 4.79 cents to $2.4051 a gallon. March natural gas futures rose 27.4 cents to $8.575 per 1,000 cubic feet.

Analysts said the current cold snap in the Northeast and Midwest was supporting heating oil and natural gas prices.

In London, Brent crude rose $1.49 to $93.34 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.

___

Associated Press writers Pablo Gorondi in Budapest and Gillian Wong in Singapore contributed to this report.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-11-2008, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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How you found us: some guy at the IBM credit union told me about it
           
I read that earlier as well...
While there is no perfect solution now.. To stifle new technology and keep us doing things an old inefficient way.. Purely to increase the profits of those who are already wealthy beyond measure.. Is just foolish.

WHy not work on the electric car... ?
I am sure it is not a popular topic.. but solar, water, wind, and nuke (the unpopular one) powering automobiles... Seems to me like a good idea.

Battery technology is improving.. Something like this would REALLY drive innovation forward.. That would be a good thing for everyone.

I still do not think we are *there* yet... but.. Why not allow the scientist to work *towards getting us there* ?
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-15-2008, 02:04 AM
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Baby Oil

I've been wanting that Telsa since I saw it some years back. It just makes sense. It's comparable to a sport car, looks great, nice safety features and even a kool security system. Most people are traditionalist and/or plain conservative on the future.

To break the mold means change. To change means lose comfort zone. Losing comfort zone means chance. And then what comes after that is uncertainty. Still, if a plan is laid out to help with a plan that has become weak it's time to consider breaking that mold!

To simply state, if I had the loot I would have a Telsa. I would deal with all the other bridges when I cross them. Like making sure my battery stayed charged! lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by gconsier View Post
Sorry all of you conspiracy theory haters.. Just remember what the word "conspire" means.. If you think these people are to stupid to plan ahead, you deserve to be a serf.
On point!

Loki is commentator for other sites as well as the publications: Who's Booty Is That On My Face Magazine, Fart Life and written the self-help book, What To Say To Comments About Your Crack Whore Mom.
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