Men, we must act fast!!! - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Men, we must act fast!!!

My roomate sent me an interesting article about the gender gap or rather the lack of.

http://netscape.businessweek.com/mag...4001_mz001.htm
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 01:18 AM
 
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aaahhh yes, more sugar mama's!! The article did clear up a few things for me though, I now have a better understanding of why I'm such a fuck up.

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 08:05 AM
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I guess it kind of alludes to women accepting instruction. Men have an inate need to assert themselves in order to establish ranking. Such assertion started on a physical level, historically, and now has reverted to such with the world wide culture of professional athletics. Intellectual assertion has long been perceived as second rate, what the losers do when they can't be the top athlete. Now we are seeing the results of such futile thinking.

Women tend accept instruction better and learn faster because they don't depend on phyisical attributes or believe that they already know how things are successfully performed. In other words they don't typically have a false sense of machismo.

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"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 09:48 AM
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lets not forget the Ncca law stating there has to be an equal # of Female athletes to Male athletes on scholarships, this drastically reducing the number of men who attend college. These male sports that are eliminated reduce the # of male athletes that go on to graduate by a large amount.

I am shocked at the amount of children who are on ridiln now???? wtf is up with that?? its not a chemical problem in a child, its the parents. granted some actually may need it, but 20% im calling bullshit on that one. Just go to a restaraunt, parents have no control over there kids anymore, there running around, screaming, sent off to play video games. why?? if we where to act like this when we where kids we would have had are ass woooped and woooped good. I see my neighborhood kids telling there parents no and getting there way all the time, why because the parents dont own the control the kids do. Its time for parents to own up to the responsibility of rasing kids correctly and teaching the dam punks some manners and that they will get rewarded by doing well in school and not at the soccer field.

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 09:54 AM
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Jim has a point, lots of children are now....drugged. Why? Because little Jimmy or Kimmy don't fit in some kind of social norm, so we'll drug the little bastards until they are too doped up to think for themselves. I can guarentee that if we (as a group) were children now, we'd be drugged by some so called social worker.

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickC1957
Jim has a point, lots of children are now....drugged. Why? Because little Jimmy or Kimmy don't fit in some kind of social norm, so we'll drug the little bastards until they are too doped up to think for themselves. I can guarentee that if we (as a group) were children now, we'd be drugged by some so called social worker.
Time to have a GOOD listen to The Wall.

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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Taborn


Women tend accept instruction better and learn faster because they don't depend on phyisical attributes or believe that they already know how things are successfully performed. In other words they don't typically have a false sense of machismo.

Taborn
For that same reason, women still are behind in engineering, and high tech fields that require physical problems solving and mor analytical thinking skills. Discussing why Dave's Turbo is loosing bost, doesn't help us solve the problem.... you need ot tear it apart and ascertain what's causing the problem.


My roomate was also telling about the way the brain is wired. Womne have fast pure reflexes but not with complex dymanic movement and are good at multitasking but struggle at applying their full brain power on one specific activity. While men can be come completely absorbed in one activity and excell at using physical movement whie thinking. I still think that why your very top scientists and researchers ar still men, all the top billionares are men. Female inventors are far and few between. Wone are also less risk takers or willing to challenge athority....You don;t get to the top wihtout taking risks.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BusaDave
Time to have a GOOD listen to The Wall.
But then we're back to being drugged up.

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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
For that same reason, women still are behind in engineering, and high tech fields that require physical problem solving and more analytical thinking skills.
I know, based on the male and female operating principles, that men are much more visual in their approach to problem solving. Women fail to have as much ability in the area of spatial dynamics or physical size and distance relationships.

I do understand that, by their very nature, women are not risk takers. But, because women are not risk takers, and while they have a difficult time with intense, single activity focus, I would think that they could be better problem solvers for a couple of reasons.
1. Since women don't like risk they tend to think in worst case scenarios which should make them consider a wider range of possible solutions to a problem.
2. Since women don't have the abilities men have with spatial dynamics I would expect them to calculate spatial relationships more carefully to avoid failure. This would make them more likely to adhere to the adage of measuring twice but cutting once.

All in all this gets to the very heart of what makes men and women different. While both sexes are able to do many of the same things their approches are usually quite different. More over it shows why men and women were meant to compliment each other rather than to compete with each other.

And without a doubt, Jim, is hugely right in the area of parental responsibility. Look at our culture of abandonment by fathers. That absence of responsiblity has born a culture of irresponsible males. The males of early adulthood and younger have not had strong male role models who could teach them the value of hard work in all facets of life. Then the poor mothers, who are left to pick up the slack of both parents or an absentee, father stick the kid on Ridilin to control a male child who exhibits the typical, unharnessed, attributes of a man.

Taborn

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Taborn
And without a doubt, Jim, is hugely right in the area of parental responsibility. Look at our culture of abandonment by fathers. That absence of responsiblity has born a culture of irresponsible males. The males of early adulthood and younger have not had strong male role models who could teach them the value of hard work in all facets of life. Then the poor mothers, who are left to pick up the slack of both parents or an absentee, father stick the kid on Ridilin to control a male child who exhibits the typical, unharnessed, attributes of a man.

Taborn
Allthough abandonment is a big issue, My gripe is more centered around the lack of dicipline the parents give out to children now a days. See with most families now adays both parents are required to work, so leaves little time for R&R for the adults, so the parents usually do what ever they can to get away from there kids. an example look how many mini vans,vans,cars even come with frigin tv's in them now! why? to shut the kids up. See when we where kids we would ask are we there yet 10 times, then dad would take both hands off the wheel reach back and smack us. that shut us up. Now?? parents turn on the tv, usually attached to a video game. Same thing with restaraunts, give them money send them to video games. My point is parents are now giving the kids what ever they want just to get away from them, instead of teaching them manners and patience.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 10:25 PM
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All valid points in my mind.

The public schools are the biggest reflection of the lack of parental discipline. The parents, rather than question what their kid tells them when the kid gets into trouble, go to the school and yell at the teachers and the administrators for trying to discipline the kid. But, this still seems to show up most in the homes of the single parent child.

Having both parents work is a huge issue. My wife, a newly licensed teacher, did not have a contract to teach this year. She worked as a substitute in the Toledo Public Schools for two weeks before she had enough of the lack of discipline among the children and the fear of the school staff when it came to disciplining the children.

The unexpected benefit of my wife backing out of subbing was that she was able to volunteer at our son's school. She was able to be with Max immediately after school and spend a little more time in a social capacity with him. It was pretty amazing to see how excited he was about having Mom at school every day. He was also excited about being able to come straight home. He was able to go to Karate right after school, play with the neighbor a little longer, and get done with his homework earlier.

The little things parents can give in the way of attention can do wonders to head off the need for more drastic discipline at least in some cases. But there's absolutely a lack of willingness to discipline.

Taborn

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Taborn
But there's absolutely a lack of willingness to discipline.
And of course, if you do discpiline, some nosy busybody is going to be calling DCFS to take your kids away......

And what about the young grade school boys who were suspended for holding their fingers like guns while playing an innocent game of cops and robbers? Some of this is just going too far.....

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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Taborn
All valid points in my mind.

The unexpected benefit of my wife backing out of subbing was that she was able to volunteer at our son's school. She was able to be with Max immediately after school and spend a little more time in a social capacity with him. It was pretty amazing to see how excited he was about having Mom at school every day. He was also excited about being able to come straight home. He was able to go to Karate right after school, play with the neighbor a little longer, and get done with his homework earlier.

The little things parents can give in the way of attention can do wonders to head off the need for more drastic discipline at least in some cases. But there's absolutely a lack of willingness to discipline.

Taborn
bingo, but the ball is a little different out here in suburbia chicago, the parents out here seem to want the school to discipline/raise there children for them while they work, hell have the kids out here get bussed from school to a daycare service until 6-6:30 pm, my mother in law watches these kids and most of them are fucked up,on ridilin, no manners, broken families.
This is an issue that really gets to me for I have no patience for ignorance, and this is all it is. The first thing children need to be taught is respect for there elders. 95% of the kids to day have none? why? we all do, what happend? With Respect for elders comes better behaved,educated children in school. After respect comes responsibility. hold them accountable, they fuck up punish them, and not this sissy shit sitting in the corner, something that will make them fear doing it again. But also reward them for doing good. 3rd and just as important as the first two, is guidance. Be there for them, tell them why its wrong/right. sit with them while they do there homework, be there for them when they fail/succeed, but be a parent!!!!
Rant over

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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Norseman82
And of course, if you do discpiline, some nosy busybody is going to be calling DCFS to take your kids away......

And what about the young grade school boys who were suspended for holding their fingers like guns while playing an innocent game of cops and robbers? Some of this is just going too far.....
boy you guys no how to get to me. Media created this problem, and I know the answer to it. Your child ever says they will call, take them to a childrens home. let them know if they call this is where they will end up. Last time you will here them say that!

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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-17-2003, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast
boy you guys no how to get to me. Media created this problem, and I know the answer to it. Your child ever says they will call, take them to a childrens home. let them know if they call this is where they will end up. Last time you will here them say that!
I overheard one lady on the train say that if her kid ever threatened to call DCFS to be taken away, she would say "Go ahead, I'd welcome it!".

Another tactic would be to make sure they know how messed up DCFS is so they would be afraid of being lost in the system or killed or kidnapped. Maybe a parent threatening to call DCFS on the kid to take him/her away is today's equivalent of threatening to send the kid to military school!

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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 08:33 AM
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Like Keanu Reeves character in the move Parenthood said, 'you need a license to do anything but, they'll let anybody be a parent".

Scary stuff.

Taborn

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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 08:58 AM
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First hilary now this!!!!

Head they can lead as long as their cute and in a bikini!!!!!

All kidding aside I say if they can do it then more power to them. If we are to lazy to take charge then someone has too. I believe in equality. Not 50% boy and 50% girls. I mean if you are going to a job interview you get the job because your more qualified. Not because the the company needs to hire more minorities or because your white the the company is racist.

To the girls out there doing good for them, keep it up, aand maybe I will vote for you for president.

I think this is the part where I get thrown out of the male population and I have to turn in my penis, right?

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 10:46 AM
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Jim - man I am 100% in agreement with you here. I can't believe what half the little brats get away with these days. And it's no wonder... with discipline and consequences like "timeouts"... sheesh. Hell I saw the very edge of this with my generation. Most of my friends families were much better off than me - 10 years old and they had their own TV in their rooms, video games, etc. So when they were sent to their room - it was more of a GOOD thing than a punishment. I didn't have SHIT in my room. When I was sent to my room, I was required to sit on my bed, and not leave from it until dad came home. I can't imagine what I'd have done as a kid if the worst punishment I could receive was "quiet time."

When I got in trouble when I was a kid, "Just wait until your father gets home!!" MEANT something - instilled pure fear even, as the clock neared 5:00. The same will be true for my kids. And unfortunately, I'll probably wind up in jail for it. Which really makes me think twice about even wanting kids in the first place.

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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 05:07 PM
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Winger,

I don't think you have to be emasculated. I think capable people should always be given the opportunity to perform. Performance is the one true indicator of ability.

Guys and gals who are professional athletes, no matter what the sport, must perform or lose their spot on the team. I don't see why that should be different with anything else in life. I know for a fact that there were girls that were better at basketball than I was, when we were in elementary school. None were better at football. A lot of the girls were better at some aspects of math but I was better at physics. I wouldn't make a better Accountant than any of the women I work with but none of the women I work with were able to become technicians. The list goes on and on. If the job needs to be done I certainly don't want to have a person in place, who does not have the capability to complete the work at hand, just because the person is a male.

Taborn

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by OmniGLH
When I got in trouble when I was a kid, "Just wait until your father gets home!!" MEANT something - instilled pure fear even, as the clock neared 5:00. The same will be true for my kids. And unfortunately, I'll probably wind up in jail for it. Which really makes me think twice about even wanting kids in the first place.
Well, I actually think you have to take personality into consideration. For some kids "quiet time" is one of the most dreaded things you can do. The lack of stimulation dirves them batty. Other kids won't even flinch. By the way, quiet time does not mean being confined and watching your favorite TV show!

Some kids will take a good licking that will sting for a few minutes and not even bat an eye.

I think you have to be as good at figuring out what motivates each kid in a particular circumstance as they are at figuring out what makes you crazy.

A good beating is not only not always effective, but it tends to teach that violence is a perfectly valid way to achieve results.

I agree completely with the sentiments concerning discipline, but discipline may mean removing from the sports team, pulling the basketball season ticket, taking away driving priviledges, extra chores, god forbid, taking away the cell phone...

By the way, don't forget to reward and recognize proper behavior. Plenty of parents offer no positive response or totally ignore their children when they behave as expected.

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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BusaDave
A good beating is not only not always effective, but it tends to teach that violence is a perfectly valid way to achieve results.



yep im a violent person now because i got spanked/hand slapped,threatend with a belt, dam you mommy and daddy!

How many of you are violent now because you got spanked as a child or your hand slapped or cracked with the belt in the ass??

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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-18-2003, 10:56 PM
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and so you dont think im a spank first and talk later type of person. I want it to be known that I dont think its the only form of punishment out nor should it be first used, but if the case calls then by all means the parents should have the right to discipline there child properly within reason.

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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:13 AM
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i got a comment more like a story but i cant figure a way to word it right now.

but a child that has had his ass beat to even things that the father could have put in jail for and we arnt talking a spanking with a belt.

not everyone turns out a nut case, or violant person.
if anything you know what NOT to do with a child that is your blood and in there eyes....your everything to them at a young age.



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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:17 AM
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I learned pretty quick how my parents felt about certain issues when I got punished for them with soap in the mouth or a smacked ass. I'm all for physical punishment when I have kids and frankly the trend with kids today and the lack of respect for people older then them is disgusting, no doubt due to the fact that they get away with so much at home.
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast

yep im a violent person now because i got spanked/hand slapped,threatend with a belt, dam you mommy and daddy!
It wasn't an attack Jim.

Many children are more than hand slapped or threatened with a belt and it is the first resort, not the last. I think you missed my point pretty much completely.

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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
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It wasn't an attack Jim.

Many children are more than hand slapped or threatened with a belt and it is the first resort, not the last. I think you missed my point pretty much completely.

No I know you where not attacking me personally, my reply has a bit of sarcasm to it.
Quote:
A good beating is not only not always effective, but it tends to teach that violence is a perfectly valid way to achieve results.
what I read here is the same thing i see all over place. Parents are affraid to discipline there children now for fear of being sent to jail for spanking them??? this country is messed up. send me to the corner for a time out?? phhhbbbt

And Ken/Dave im talking about spanking, not phyiscally abusing a child, but spanking this is not abuse,there is a difference. And no it should not be used everytime, can it be used first, depends on what the child is doing.

My point is as a whole this country has gone soft, Parents have to watch how they raise there kids now for fear of some do gooder calling the cops on them. But parents are not free of wrong here either, as i stated before from what ive seen as of late parents dont care what there kids are doing so long as the parents get some time away from the kids.

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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:12 AM
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It seems to me, with the voices represented here, that there may be hope for another generation.

Taborn

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BusaDave
By the way, don't forget to reward and recognize proper behavior. Plenty of parents offer no positive response or totally ignore their children when they behave as expected.
So noone responds to this one? I guess it's just obvious. Funny how so many parents forget it.

And how about my suggestion that you know the personality of your child and use the punishment that will be the most effective for the circumstance?

Or how about the kids that will take a spanking and laugh in your face?

I thought this thread was about discipline but it seems focused on physical punishment and FEAR to me.

If you think that HITTING to get what YOU want doesn't teach them that HITTING is a valid way to get what they want, then words aren't going to convince you.

Punishment should suit the crime. It should be done with a full understanding of why it is being done along with how to correct the behavior in the future.

Parenting should not wait until it's time for punishment and be absent the rest of the time. If the only interaction you get from your parent is correction of mistakes or criticism of failure, and emotional absence and no rewards for good behavior, well, I leave the excersize up to your imagination what kind of relationship that creates.

Dave

Last edited by BusaDave; 05-19-2003 at 09:19 AM.
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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:23 AM
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I reward my son daily. Even when he doesn't think his behavior is admirable. I think it's an obvious thing, to reward a child, that becomes more evident when the child misbehaves to get attention.

Taborn

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Taborn
I think it's an obvious thing, to reward a child, that becomes more evident when the child misbehaves to get attention.
Maybe it was just parents of the 50's but based on behavior I wouldn't say it was obvious.

You cited one of the biggest reasons. If they only get attention when they act out, they're going to act out, and no amount of spanking is going to stop it.

Children are learning 100% of the time. You either influence what they are learning or you do not.

Dave
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