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post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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need more global warming. LOOK INSIDE

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm


Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.


Al Gore is such a choad.
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post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 08:22 PM
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Al Gore would say the warmer temps at the poles are forcing the cooler air further away from them which is why the temps are going DOWN for us. I personally don't know enough about it, but I do know that this earth has had cycles whether man caused them or not. This planet is due to have another extinction at some point in its' history with or without us. It's the circle of life.

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post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcohenchicago View Post
Al Gore would say the warmer temps at the poles are forcing the cooler air further away from them which is why the temps are going DOWN for us. I personally don't know enough about it, but I do know that this earth has had cycles whether man caused them or not. This planet is due to have another extinction at some point in its' history with or without us. It's the circle of life.
I agree and Al Gore is an idiot

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hahahaha, nice try. Everyone knows men age like wine and women age like milk. It's a scientific fact!!
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post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 09:09 PM
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post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2G View Post
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm


Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.


Al Gore is such a choad.

Al Gore is an idiot, but this article is way of base and using distorted data. Right from the Hadley Center, the Global temp is still up .8 degrees C. The info this article refers to is that 2007 was the coolest year since 2000, but global temps are still way up. Al Gore is a very bad front man for Climate Change. He turns this into a political issue, and it shouldn't be. Climate change is real. There is not a single peer review article which disputes it.

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Man that dude has a nice rack though....
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post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pcohenchicago View Post
Al Gore would say the warmer temps at the poles are forcing the cooler air further away from them which is why the temps are going DOWN for us. I personally don't know enough about it, but I do know that this earth has had cycles whether man caused them or not. This planet is due to have another extinction at some point in its' history with or without us. It's the circle of life.

There are cycles to the climate. They are call Milankovitch cycles. While the earth does go through warming and cooling periods with these. The problem is we should be in a long term stable period right now, but we're not. What data and climate models show is that the cause is massive levels of green house gases as compared to historical levels.

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Man that dude has a nice rack though....
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post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-27-2008, 10:32 PM
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Good show to watch on that is Penn & Teller's Bullshit, Season 1, Episode 13
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post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 12:04 AM
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i'm super serial.
WTF is that? Gore may be an idiot but didn't "the day after tomorrow" depict global warming actualy creating an ice age. That movie taught me I could run away from freezing weather though..

Seriously though, the article seems to base a theory on a relative short period of time. Abudence of CO2 tends to lend itself to drastic climate change and weather, not always warmer temps in all climates.
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post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 12:07 AM
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post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 12:09 AM
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"While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it."

reading comprehension.
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post #11 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 12:25 AM
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"While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it."

reading comprehension.
So what are you saying? We don't have to worry about CO2 because the planet will override it? 1 year or half a year does not make a trend.

The pig thing scares me.
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post #12 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 12:49 AM
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So what are you saying? We don't have to worry about CO2 because the planet will override it? 1 year or half a year does not make a trend.

The pig thing scares me.
No, the opposite. Global warming is accepted by nearly everyone in science. Seems like the only people that try to disprove it are in politics, or on message boards.
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post #13 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 02:06 AM
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No, the opposite. Global warming is accepted by nearly everyone in science. Seems like the only people that try to disprove it are in politics, or on message boards.
Nearly everyone in science? Like Al Gore?
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post #14 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 02:53 AM
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post #15 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 03:21 AM
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Nearly everyone in science? Like Al Gore?
No scientist even wants to be associated with that guy. Well...at least no normal one.
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post #16 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 09:37 AM
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No scientist even wants to be associated with that guy. Well...at least no normal one.
The info Gore spews out in his documentary is factual for the most part and nothing new. There are several good shows out right now on global warming. 6 degrees is one of them on NatGeo or Discovery.
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post #17 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 09:40 AM
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The info Gore spews out in his documentary is factual for the most part and nothing new. There are several good shows out right now on global warming. 6 degrees is one of them on NatGeo or Discovery.
No, his doom and gloom scenarios are batshit crazy.
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post #18 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 09:42 AM
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No, his doom and gloom scenarios are batshit crazy.
Which part? There was nothing new in there that I had not seen before? What I am saying is Gore is just a messenger, he's no scientist. NatGeo and below is the link tested the validity of his info from the doc. His info was solid for the most part but everyone had different theories of how long.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...warming_2.html

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post #19 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:16 AM
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There are cycles to the climate. They are call Milankovitch cycles. While the earth does go through warming and cooling periods with these. The problem is we should be in a long term stable period right now, but we're not. What data and climate models show is that the cause is massive levels of green house gases as compared to historical levels.
Right and you know this how? Tell me, how long do our data periods go back? How many ice ages ago? Oh that's what I thought.

Listen their is one constant. We live in an ever evolving, ever changing, organism. You may as well call the earth an organism with all that goes on in and on it. If you pickup any scientific journals they all contradict each other nobody knows for sure what's going on. Ice levels in areas of the world are growing, then in others they are shrinking, the ocean levels are actually slightly declining, parts of the world are seeing colder seasons while others see warmer. It's just a big cycle. We don't have a big enough set of data to make ANY conclusions. Ask Chills about predicting the weather two months out. Then ask him about predicting it two years out.

Even our most advanced algorithms and computer studies only spew out educated guesses which really aren't too educated and really are more of just a guess.

I pay no heed to anything any of these people say. They are producing a "state of fear" by using extremist words and generally making big bank off of the "green" idea. Not that going green is wrong because why not cut back on certain things but the fact is it's all $$

I highly recommend everyone reads the "state of fear". It's a fictional novel and all and I don't take anything in it with fact except for it pointed me in the right direction. Scientific journals, exact excepts that I later went in and read through library sources. All of the data everywhere gets broken and skewed... don't even get me started how some of the scientific findings aren't done double-blind. I mean who do you think bankrolls these people?

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Last edited by hellion29; 02-28-2008 at 10:20 AM.
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post #20 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:19 AM
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Right and you know this how? Tell me, how long do our data periods go back? How many ice ages ago? Oh that's what I thought.

Listen their is one constant. We live in an ever evolving, ever changing, organism. You may as well call the earth an organism with all that goes on in and on it. If you pickup any scientific journals they all contradict each other nobody knows for sure what's going on. Ice levels in areas of the world are growing, then in others they are shrinking, the ocean levels are actually slightly declining, parts of the world are seeing colder seasons while others see warmer. It's just a big cycle. We don't have a big enough set of data to make ANY conclusions. Ask Chills about predicting the weather two months out. Then ask him about predicting it two years out.

Even our most advanced algorithms and computer studies only spew out educated guesses which really aren't too educated and really are more of just a guess.

I pay no heed to anything any of these people say. They are producing a "state of fear" by using extremist words and generally making big bank off of the "green" idea. Not that going green is wrong because why not cut back on certain things but the fact is it's all $$
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post #21 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:21 AM
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Right and you know this how? Tell me, how long do our data periods go back? How many ice ages ago? Oh that's what I thought.

Listen their is one constant. We live in an ever evolving, ever changing, organism. You may as well call the earth an organism with all that goes on in and on it. If you pickup any scientific journals they all contradict each other nobody knows for sure what's going on. Ice levels in areas of the world are growing, then in others they are shrinking, the ocean levels are actually slightly declining, parts of the world are seeing colder seasons while others see warmer. It's just a big cycle. We don't have a big enough set of data to make ANY conclusions. Ask Chills about predicting the weather two months out. Then ask him about predicting it two years out.

Even our most advanced algorithms and computer studies only spew out educated guesses which really aren't too educated and really are more of just a guess.

I pay no heed to anything any of these people say. They are producing a "state of fear" by using extremist words and generally making big bank off of the "green" idea. Not that going green is wrong because why not cut back on certain things but the fact is it's all $$
You're absolutely wrong in almost eveything you said here. Fact is arctic ice is shrinking, no credible scientist will deny that. I want you to show me a credible publication that disputes this. This ignorance is bliss and I don't believe what I don't see policy is typical..
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post #22 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:22 AM
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You're absolutely wrong in almost eveything you said here. Fact is arctic ice is shrinking, no credible scientist will deny that. I want you to show me a credible publication that disputes this. This ignorance is bliss and I don't believe what I don't see policy is typical..
Antarctic ice is growing.
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post #23 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:24 AM
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Antarctic ice is growing.
Proof? You mean during the Winter months? Since satellite data was available, we have lost roughly 20% of ice coverage.

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post #24 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:27 AM
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All I know is Al Gore invented the internet. We wouldn't be having this discussion on here if it wasn't for him.
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post #26 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:33 AM
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Mort, these are junk links..... I mean Icecap.us... Anyone can find a link on-line to support a theory. I hope you can see the difference between the links you listed and major publications and recent magazines,

National Geo
Popular Science
Business Week

They all tell the same story. I think we are talking about two different things. I am talking about the total concentration of ice on earth, you were referring to antartica being impacted slower. Your "treehugger" link states Antartica is fairing better but still being impacted.

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post #27 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CHI1000RR View Post
You're absolutely wrong in almost eveything you said here. Fact is arctic ice is shrinking, no credible scientist will deny that. I want you to show me a credible publication that disputes this. This ignorance is bliss and I don't believe what I don't see policy is typical..
Well we could go look at GISS data sets that go back to 1880 and see that hey the temp has been somewhat steadily rising by fractions of a fraction of a degree. Then we could go look at CO2 levels and see... oh wait what's this. The CO2 levels are rising but seem to not have a very direct tie with the temperature. You see from 1940-1970 the CO2 was rapidly climbing and yet the global average temperature dropped two tenths of a degree. Interesting, but it's a small sample set. So we'll just go on with the sources.


Doran, P. T., Priscu, J.C., Lyons, W.B., Walsh, J.E., Fountain, A.G., McKnight D.M., Moorhead, D.L., Virginia, R.A., Wall, D.H., Clow, G.D., Fristen, C.H., McKay, C.P., and Parsons, A.N., 2002, "Antarctic climate cooling and terrestrial ecosystem response," Nature 415: 515-20.
-"From 1986 to 2000 central Antarctic valleys cooled .7 degrees Celsius per decade and with serious ecosystem damage from cold."-

Comiso, J.C., 2000, "Variability and trends in Antarctic surface temperatures from in situ and satellite infrared measurements," Journal of Climate 13: 1674-96
-"Both satellite data and ground stations show slight cooling over the last 20 years."-

Joughin, I., and Tulaczyk, S., 2002, "Possitive mass balance of the Ross Ice Streams, West Antarctica," Science 295:476-80.
-"Side-looking radar measurements show West Antarctic ice is increasing at 26.8 gigatons/yr. Reversing the melting trend of the last 6,000 years."-

Anderson, J. B. and J. T. Andrews. "Radiocarbon Constraints on the Ice Sheet Advance and Retreat in the Weddell Sea, Antarctica." Geology 27(1999): 179-82.


I could go on and on but I'll stop for now unless you want more. Oh and just so you know citing National Geo and Business week is a bit of a joke.

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post #28 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:40 AM
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All I know is Al Gore invented the internet. We wouldn't be having this discussion on here if it wasn't for him.

. That is all.

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post #29 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:41 AM
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National Geo/Business Week is a joke... how so? You don't think they cite and confirm multiple sources before they publish something. I prefer to see something confirmed from multiple sources rather then one whack job scientist tyring to prove an agenda..
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post #30 of 60 (permalink) Old 02-28-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellion29 View Post
Well we could go look at GISS data sets that go back to 1880 and see that hey the temp has been somewhat steadily rising by fractions of a fraction of a degree. Then we could go look at CO2 levels and see... oh wait what's this. The CO2 levels are rising but seem to not have a very direct tie with the temperature. You see from 1940-1970 the CO2 was rapidly climbing and yet the global average temperature dropped two tenths of a degree. Interesting, but it's a small sample set. So we'll just go on with the sources.


Doran, P. T., Priscu, J.C., Lyons, W.B., Walsh, J.E., Fountain, A.G., McKnight D.M., Moorhead, D.L., Virginia, R.A., Wall, D.H., Clow, G.D., Fristen, C.H., McKay, C.P., and Parsons, A.N., 2002, "Antarctic climate cooling and terrestrial ecosystem response," Nature 415: 515-20.
-"From 1986 to 2000 central Antarctic valleys cooled .7 degrees Celsius per decade and with serious ecosystem damage from cold."-

Comiso, J.C., 2000, "Variability and trends in Antarctic surface temperatures from in situ and satellite infrared measurements," Journal of Climate 13: 1674-96
-"Both satellite data and ground stations show slight cooling over the last 20 years."-

Joughin, I., and Tulaczyk, S., 2002, "Possitive mass balance of the Ross Ice Streams, West Antarctica," Science 295:476-80.
-"Side-looking radar measurements show West Antarctic ice is increasing at 26.8 gigatons/yr. Reversing the melting trend of the last 6,000 years."-

Anderson, J. B. and J. T. Andrews. "Radiocarbon Constraints on the Ice Sheet Advance and Retreat in the Weddell Sea, Antarctica." Geology 27(1999): 179-82.


I could go on and on but I'll stop for now unless you want more. Oh and just so you know citing National Geo and Business week is a bit of a joke.

Your examples are quotes with no data to support them. In fact, they are probably taken out of context. So you are saying the Earth is actually cooling over the past 20 years? This is what you believe?
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