More M/C Rights in the shitter - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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More M/C Rights in the shitter

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Webmaster for the Chicago Chapter of ABATE of Illinois


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Sportbikers Silent As Rights Slip Away: SB-802 Passes
Committee
From: Bruce Arnold
Date: Wed, April 02, 2008 2:16 am
To:

FIRST AMENDMENT NOTICE: This is a political communication to Bruce's Rights Riders List exercising our Freedom of Speech as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and exempted from the C.A.N.S.P.A.M. Act of 2003 to convey information regarding motorcyclists' rights and motorcycle awareness issues. To insure that you continue to receive emails like this, please add "[email protected]" to your address book and safe senders list. To no longer receive our emails, please reply to this email with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject line.

***

SB-802 GENERAL BILL by Garcia (Compare HB-137)

"Motorcycles or Mopeds/Reckless Driving [EPCC]; Provides that if a person is operating or is in actual physical control of a motorcycle while driving recklessly, a law enforcement officer shall arrest the person, take him or her into custody, and seize the motorcycle. Requires that a person riding on a motorcyle or moped must ride while sitting astride the seat with one leg on each side and with both wheels on the ground at all times, etc."

http://tinyurl.com/yuzl2r

***

Fellow Freedom Fighters:

Big Brother's right to seize your motorcycle has come one step closer to becoming a reality in Florida and a nightmarish precedent for statehouses nationwide. Yesterday, HB-137's companion bill SB-802 passed unanimously through the Florida State Senate Transportation Committee. Here is a verbatim report from Dara "Sam" McLain, who along with fellow bikers' rights advocate Robert "RC" Conroy attended the meeting and spoke out against the bill:

-----Original Message-----
From: macgs [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:42 AM
To: [email protected];
Subject: SB 802 Hearing - reported by Dara "Sam" McLain

Greetings All,

Below is the summary, as I saw it, at the Hearing for SB 802, companion bill to HB 137. This comes late because I was busy doing work (ya, I have a day job) this afternoon that I should have been doing this morning while I was at the Senate building with RC attending the hearing.

In a room about 3/4 full, there were THREE bikers present to support our position opposing this bill. THREE BIKERS; Florida Abate President, RC and myself. The Abate President arrives with a companion, but it is not known if she is a biker or not. Either way, not one Sport Biker stepped forward to state his or her position. There were none in the room that I could see. From my perspective, it appears Sport Bikers are just not concerned about having their bikes confiscated, and their licenses taken from them for ten years. As a rider of 30+ years, I find that very distasteful. My bike has two wheels, so does yours. How dare you diminish my right to ride free by your apathy.

As most of you know, this bill started out discriminatory against all bikers, outlined a severe penalty for infractions, and is largely redundant, given the laws on the books already for reckless driving.

And as things progressed, amendments were made to HB 137 and text was changed to include all drivers. However, HB 137 still called out motorcycles specifically, and defines somewhat specifically what constitutes non-stunt riding; i.e. two wh eels on the ground at all times, one leg on both sides of the bike, etc.

Legislators are adamant that those who pull wheelies at high speeds, weave in and out of traffic at high speeds, or simply ride their bikes at high speed, will pay the consequences. Even if they didn't add the text to [lamely] exclude those of us who ride motorcycles that won't perform these types of stunts, I'd still know they meant Sport Bike riders. Legislators were VERY specific about who is targeted by this bill. My fear, and that of others, is law enforcement won't bother to distinguish between the two.

At the first hearing, I and others, protested that, among other things, this bill is one-sided. Their aim, they said, is to prevent senseless death of these Sport Bike riders. While we pointed out they were ignoring the senseless death of many more riders that happen daily at the hands of distracted drivers who go unpunished.

So, late last night, an amendment was added to SB 802, to stiffen the penalties of drivers who cause death or injury to another through a traffic violation. For whatever reason - a dangling carrot, an honest concern, whatever - it was added to this bill. However, and far more importantly, SEIZURE is still very much alive in this bill. Fine me $1000, give me jail time, take away my endorsement for a period of time, but the government does not have the right to confiscate my motorcycle. Period. The Forfeiture law was enacted to prevent the continuation of drug manufacture and sale after the dealer was convicted. Confiscating cars and/or motorcycles for driving violations is out of those bounds and unconstitutional.

Sadly, many Senators who are fairly new to this bill, are so focused on the Sport Bike issue that they immediately shot down this amendment that might have done some good. So once again, we are back at square one, and this bill is still very much alive! And again, where the hell was the support?? Where are all the Sport Bike riders who oppose this bill? I can almost understand the biker community who does not ride the sport bikes not having a concern, but this bill seriously targets Sport bikers. Do you not care? Or are you merely waiting for those of us who are willing to fight for our freedom to do it for you?

Once the new amendment was read, the only opposing comment from the Transportation Committee was how much of a fiscal "burden" it might be for the state to fork up room and board (jail time) for a driver who kills in the process of a traffic violation! This was Senator Paula Dockery I believe. (Without a seating chart and "name tags" I can't be sure.) From my point of view, she didn't care one iota whether bikers died on the road at the hands of incompetent drivers. She couldn't get this amendment killed fast enough. In fact, I didn't get the impression that she, or several others, cared one bit about any death of a motorcyclist. (Senator Dockery goes up on the political candidate do-not-vote-for Wall-of-Shame). And this leads me to believe that the motive for this bill and HB 137, from the beginning, is not to stop any deaths, but to catch the culprits and make some money from it. I'll be writing to Senator Dockery to express my distaste over her obvious lack of concern for!
those who die at the hands of distracted and incompetent drivers.

It should be noted that Senator Baker spoke very much in favor of the stiffer penalty amendment, as did Senator Garcia. They both seem to "get it" about ROWV causing so many motorcycle deaths. The Florida Abate President spoke in support of the amendment and expressed disappointment in this action to strike. RC and I declined to speak on behalf of the amendment, stating we would speak on the bill itself.

The bill was brought to the table and Senator Garcia, the sponsor of the bill, declined to speak until all were heard. Again, the Florida Abate president informed the committee that his organization opposed the bill in it's entirety. He testified that confiscation of property costs the state money.

Next was R C, who covered several points; penalties covered in this bill for stunt riding far exceed those of incompetent auto drivers who kill and maim
riders, the redundancy of the bill to existing laws, and discrimination of motorcyclists.

I was last to speak, as no others stepped forward. I expressed extreme disappointment in the attitude of the committee of placing a fiscal value on the death of another and refusing to entertain the amendment put forth by Senator Garcia. I also spoke of the unconstitutionality of property seizure, and that civil seizure does not provide for Due Process; that 80% of forfeitures are seized from those who are never charged with a crime.

Senator Alex Villalobos challenged my comments on forfeiture, and I pointed out that the bill is littered with text that says the officer "shall arrest the perpetrator, throw him in jail, and seize the property", and that a court "official" shall determine the outcome. That sounded to me like the officer can make the decision of guilt on the fly, and your property seized without proof of the crime. Only one line in the bill said that forfeiture would occur "if" convicted.

For those who are unaware of what Civil Forfeiture might mean to you, here's a few highlights. You are NOT entitled to a trial by jury. You are NOT entitled to an Attorney (except if you want to pay a $10k retainer yourself to regain $4000 worth of personal property). You are guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proving your innocence is on YOU, at your expense. Even if you are acquitted or found not guilty of any charges, THEY CAN STILL KEEP YOUR MOTORCYCLE.

It goes without saying that once motorcycles are targeted in any way for confiscation, by law, law enforcement will add that to their list of revenue generation. This happens daily already. Bikers are pulled over and cited for minor infractions, such as handlebar height, and their bikes are confiscated. Even if the citation is invalid and proven so, the owner must still pay very high fees to release his/her property from impoundment. If the process takes too long, the property may be sold, and the owner will never recover the property at all, or the money it was sold for.

John L. Worrall, Department of Criminal Justice, California State University at San Bernardino, said it very aptly, "A conflict of interest between effective crime control and creative fiscal management will persist so long as law enforcement agencies remain dependent on civil asset forfeiture."

Furthermore, 80% of property forfeited to US government agencies in the last decade was seized from owners who were never charged with a crime! Over $7 Billion has been forfeited to the government since 1985. Florida is about to add motorcycles to that equation.

Senator Garcia presented the same video that was shown at the first hearing on HB 137. And again, it elicited gasps and outrage from the committee members, and many in the audience.

Following the video, Senator Larcenia Bullard spoke on the attributes of motorcyclists. She said she used to think we were all bad people. Then she discovered that we are people just like anyone else, and she learned of the charities we contribute to, and the selfless acts of kindness bikers are known for.

But hard on the heels of these very kind words, she stated that those who ride Sport Bikes in the manner depicted on the video deserve this severe punishment and she supported this bill 100%.

The committee vote was unanimous. To those of you who didn't show up to oppose this bill, at any of the three hearings so far, thank you very much for helping to push through one of the most damaging and nebulous bills I've ever seen.

I want to thank all of you who put forth so much effort in sending your views through mail, email and phone calls. I know it has helped to get text changes in this bill. Please continue to write to the committee members and express your extreme opposition to forfeiture.

However, Sport Bike riders be forewarned, if and when th is law goes into effect in October, you WILL be targeted by law enforcement, profiled, and falsely accused even if you ride safe and sane, and never do any of these stunts. I am sure that law enforcement will make it a priority to help you rack up your offences so they can confiscate your bike. And since you have made no effort whatsoever to represent yourselves at these hearings, you will have no one to blame but the man/woman in the mirror. I wish you luck, you'll need it. This bill is well on its way to becoming law in October, in
spite of our best efforts.

Respectfully,
Dara McLain
aka Sam

***

Committee Info:
------------------

Senate Bill 802 Sponsor:
Senator Rudy Garcia (R)
District Office:
7475 West Fourth Ave.
Hialeah, FL
33014-4327
(305) 364-3191
Senate VOIP 44000

Legislative Assistants: Susie Martin, David Marin and Ana Pereira

Tallahassee Office:
Room 416
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5106
Senate VOIP 5106

Email: [email protected]
------------------

Transportation Committee:

------------------

Chair:
Senator Carey Baker (R)
District Offices:
301 West Ward Avenue
Eustis, FL 32726-4024
(352) 742-6490
Senate VOIP 42000
FAX (352)742-6492
Outside Lake County:
1-888-567-5577

Legislative Assistants:
Gale Bass, Renee Strong, Vilma Tucker and Thomas Hammons

Lady Lake, FL
(352) 360-6739
Senate VOIP 42010

DeLand, FL
(386) 736-5048
Senate VOIP 42020

Tallahassee Office:
Room 316
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5014
Senate VOIP 5014

Email: [email protected]
--------------------

Vice Chair:
Senator Larcenia J. Bullard (D)
District Office:
8603 S. Dixie Highway,
Suite 304
Miami, FL 33143
(305) 668-7344
Senate VOIP 43900
FAX: (305) 668-7346
Statewide:
1-866-234-3734

Legislative Assistants:
Merdochey LaFrance, Ryan Hawkins, Jennifer Alexandre and Linda Dallas

Tallahassee Office:
Room 218
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5127
Senate VOIP 5127

Email: [email protected]
-----------------------

Senator Lee Constantine (R)
District Office:
378 Centerpointe Circle,
Suite 1268
Altamonte Springs, FL
32701-3442
(407) 331-9675
Senate VOIP 42200

Legislative Assistants: Abigail Souders, Micelle Emery and Christopher
Hudson

Tallahassee Office:
Room 413
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5050
Senate VOIP 5050

Email: [email protected]
-----------------------

Senator Paula Dockery (R)
District Office:
P.O. Drawer 2395
Lakeland, FL 33806-2395
(863) 413-2900
Senate VOIP 41500
FAX: (863) 413-2902
Statewide:
1-866-248-6487

Legislative Assistants:
April Mucci, Laura Rodriguez, Matthew Hinton and Sarah Hardy

Tallahassee Office:
Room 314
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5040
Senate VOIP 5040

Email: [email protected]
------------------------

Senator Arthenia L. Joyner (D)
District Office:
508 W. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard
Suite C
Tampa, FL 33603-3415
(813) 233-4277
Senate VOIP 41800
FAX (813) 233-4280

Legislative Assistants: Rosalie Smith, Charlie Anderson and Michele Rayner

Tallahassee Office:
Room 224
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5059
Senate VOIP 5059
FAX (888) 263-7871

Email: [email protected]
------------------------

Senator Gwen Margolis (D)
District Office:
1005 Kane Concourse
Suite 205
Bay Harbor Island, FL
33154
(305) 993-3632
Senate VOIP 43500
FAX (305) 993-3635

Legislative Assistants:
Zachary Kobrin, Sharon West James and Cameron Sisser

Tallahassee Office:
Room 214
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5121
Senate VOIP 5121

Email: [email protected]
------------------------

Senator J. Alex Villalobos (R)
District Office:
9766 S.W. 24th Street,
Suite 18
Miami, FL
33165
(305) 222-4160
Senate VOIP 43800

Legislative Assistants: Vicky Romaguera-Garcia, Norma Ledesma, Nanea Marcial
and Sonia Castro

Tallahassee Office:
Room 306
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5130
Senate VOIP 5130

Email: [email protected]
------------------------

Senator Daniel Webster (R)
District Office:
315 Sout h Dillard Street
Winter Garden, FL 34787
(407) 656-0066
Senate VOIP 40900
FAX (407) 297-2064

Legislative Assistants: Ann Drawdy and Cindy Brown

Tallahassee Office:
Room 330
Senate Office Building
404 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, FL
32399-1100
(850) 487-5047
Senate VOIP 5047

Legislative Assistant: Jaryn Emhof

Email: No email listed

***

"The battle for bikers' rights is not about patches, parties or poker runs. We fight to protect the freedom and promote the interests of American motorcyclists ... to defend our right to choose our own modes of transportation, attire and lifestyle ... to deter and defy discrimination against us ... and to vanquish those who violate our rights or right-of-way."--Bruce Arnold

http://ldrlongdistancerider.com/bikers_rights.php

***

Please post your comments and replies here:

http://ldrlongdistancerider.com/forum.php

Last edited by A.B.A.T.E.; 04-02-2008 at 01:22 PM.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:23 PM
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well that should cut down the squid population pretty quick.




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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry it was so long a read.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:26 PM
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
well that should cut down the squid population pretty quick.
I was thinking the same thing. This really protects against stunters in traffic/public. I don't know if it's considered a "right" to endanger lives. If you are off in a warehouse district with a bunch of like-minded folks, have at it. When you are on public roads with other traffic and you are stunting, I believe there should be a penalty.

Now, i don't think it should be any worse of a penalty than those doing similar type things in their cars. All automobiles should be treated the same. I don't like the language specifically mentioning motorcycles. I see a bad trend there, but I DO agree that some of the things mentioned should be considered reckless. just no more so than being reckless in a car.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:30 PM
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Applies to all vehicles in FL now. There was a last minute rewrite.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 01:38 PM
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Don't be a "mad man" while in Florida. I think the whole "worry" thing is out of hand by who wrote that. Cops are not going to be going around taking peoples bikes for minor infractions like being said here. If it does some how start to happen I'm sure legal action will be taken by the parties involved.

The way I read this is the only people that truly need to worry is the asshats doing stupid shit on the streets. If you want to stunt do it on private property where cops can't do shit and then you have no problems.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:04 PM
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If that law passes in IL. I may as well plan on prison. I don't do stunts, but I do ride fast occationaly.



BS!!!!!

!!!!!!!(.)(.)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!). (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:39 PM
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Don't they already confiscate cars they catch street racing?
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:44 PM
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I know they don't confiscate cars if they kill a biker.

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:45 PM
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Can I get a two paragraph or less recap of that monstrosity?

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:46 PM
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ride a wheelie or have oth feet on the same side of the bike and you get rolled.




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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:47 PM
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I know they don't confiscate cars if they kill a biker.
+1000000
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:49 PM
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I know they don't confiscate cars if they kill a biker.
That begs the question. Do they confiscate cars if you kill a pedestrian or other driver/passenger?

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqrly View Post
If that law passes in IL. I may as well plan on prison. I don't do stunts, but I do ride fast occationaly.



BS!!!!!
Yep, motard or 250 time . I will just do things as normal, exercise common sense, respect the cops, and pick and chose my speed zones. If 3 people come on CLSB saying their bikes have been taken by the man, I will sell this bitch, or turn it into a track only bike, and putt around on a 250 on the street .

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"Ride it like you have 30 monthly remaining payments" should keep most people out of trouble.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 02:57 PM
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Can I get a two paragraph or less recap of that monstrosity?
+1 lol.

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Isn't that like having sex and not finishing though?
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 03:24 PM
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Damn that was way too long. Did you have to post the ENTIRE email? Serioulsy, homey!

Thanks Tony for the summarization.

So if you ride a wheelie or don't have a leg on each side of the bike you get it taken away.

Ok, let me see.... nope, no sympathy here for stunters. You brought this on yourselves. There's a time and place for everything and the interstate isn't meant for riding wheelies.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 06:00 PM
Wild slide rule roots
 
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Legislators are adamant that those who pull wheelies at high speeds, weave in and out of traffic at high speeds, or simply ride their bikes at high speed, will pay the consequences. Even if they didn't add the text to [lamely] exclude those of us who ride motorcycles that won't perform these types of stunts, I'd still know they meant Sport Bike riders. Legislators were VERY specific about who is targeted by this bill.
It is not just the stunters! It also specifies speeding. I think 99% of this board could be found guilty.

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Last edited by sqrly; 04-03-2008 at 06:33 AM.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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Bump ^ got to get on the phones this morning.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 08:42 AM
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Wake up people !



Think of this scenario....



You go to Starbucks in Naperville and the dickhead Naperville cop gets
pissed at you because you didn't put your visor down BEFORE you got
on your bike and rode off at a brisk pace.

He pulls you over, says you "did a small wheelie" and they CONFISCATE
your motorcycle, hook it to a chain and drag it to an impound where you
then have to wage a court fight at YOUR expense to get back your
mangled abused and now worthless bike.... whether you are INNOCENT of
the violation or NOT.



This extends immediate power of retribution to the officers on the street.

While I know many many good cops, I have met a few nuclear assholes
how would lick their lips to have this much street-power when they don't
like you.


I am outraged by stunting in public as many of us are.... and agree the
punishment for that kind of reckless endangerment of others needs to
be addressed. This puts the power in the wrong place, in the wrong way
and leaves you without recourse.


Have a nice walk home from jail.


Good luck getting your bike back, hope you have a real good lawyer and a fat wallet !


Tom

T2
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartDrug View Post
Can I get a two paragraph or less recap of that monstrosity?
1) If you are a total dumbass on the road, you can get your bike confiscated.
2) Sportbikers didn't show up to protect their "rights"
3) This is the end of the world and now ALL cops will target ALL bikers and take their property on trumped up charges.

Only thing I disagree with is the CONFISCATE crap.

My take, fine. If you wanna be a dumbass, suffer the consequences. We need to have LEGAL stunting spots, more MX and SUMO locations, and drag strips and race tracks. And we need to keep dumbasses off the road, and having fun, practicing what they are great at in a controlled environment.

Finally, it would be nice if there were sever penalties for killing a motorcycle rider. None exist to my knowledge.

Flame on. I still believe it should be mandated that helmets are worn. So shoot me. Flame away...

===========
Great Quote - One would think that the Secret Service was smart enough to get serviced secretly.

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 09:07 AM
Chief Apex Inspector
 
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I sent the following to all those identified in the abate communication.


Florida is a long way away..... however, this could set a legal precedent
that could sweep across the nation ....even all the way to Naperville.


I encourage everyone that rides to get involved.



Tom






Quote:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I write with regard to SB-802 / HB-137 with regard to operation
of Motorcycles and scooters. I am a resident of Illinois, a motorcycle
enthusiast, a trained riding instructor…. and more importantly a traveler.

While I completely agree that riders who openly “stunt” on public
roadways should be arrested and prosecuted I am outraged that
you would promote the unlawful seizure of private property from
citizens before they have had their day in court.

I would support legislation that provided stiffer penalties for “stunting”
and included forfeiture of equipment *after conviction in a court of law*.


If this bill passes as-is, I will permanently remove Florida from my families
vacation plans and actively encourage other riders to do the same starting
with a boycott of activities in Daytona Beach Florida next Spring.

While I agree with your “destination”, your “route” concerns me.

You could accomplish much more if you focused your time and attention on a
far-more dangerous problem that has a broader impact, distracted driving.


Thanks for your time and attention.


Tom Tracey


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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 08:00 AM
Slow Old Guy.
 
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Tom,

Very well written. I concur with your words and positioning. Sending the same letter off to them.

Rep sent to you,

Brian

===========
Great Quote - One would think that the Secret Service was smart enough to get serviced secretly.

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 09:03 AM
Formerly RwS Films
 
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Location: A-whore-ra, IL (88 & Farnsworth)
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Tom, I agree. Very well written. Rep.

Namaste

To the times I'll never remember, with the friends I'll never forget.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 10:00 AM
Thee original azzhole!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqrly View Post
It is not just the stunters! It also specifies speeding. I think 99% of this board could be found guilty.
dude...come on...it would be the WHOLE board...not 99% of it...

we gotta stop this shit from happening here...they let dipshit from the bears off when he was haulin ass in his lambo and crashed the mofo...est speed was about 120...but all he got was a slap on the wrist...but us bikers doing that speed would get the book thrown at us....

REP for a good write up tom...i think we need to start sendin that out to all our reps here in the state to make sure they keep thier heads int he game also...and this bullshit about not using the cell phones in crosswalks is just as stupid as not drivin and using the phone witho0ut a speaker or headset of smoking indoors now in public...our liberty's are being taken away and if we dotn start bitchin up a storm...we might as well call ourselfs russa

...plus my gf was with me saying "omg slow down, slow down" and I was thinking "Lose annoying squalk box in passenger seat, afford more mods and have less weight in the car and on the back of the bike"...so i dumped her and I'm single again as usual...HERE KITTY KITTY!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
pussy is the root of all evil...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunny View Post
mmmm pussy
You dont like me....i dont give a fuck...cause i'll still put ya in the hospital...me tollerating you is all that matters...

Last edited by Thunderstruck; 04-04-2008 at 10:05 AM.
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