I have a rant: Taxes / Tickets / Etc. - Chicagoland Sportbikes
Chicagoland Sportbikes
 
Open Forum This forum is for all off-topic discussion.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 03:39 PM Thread Starter

 
PolishPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suburbs, IL
Posts: 2,471
Location: Suburbs, IL
Sportbike: 600rr
Years Riding: 7 years
How you found us: From friends
           
I have a rant: Taxes / Tickets / Etc.

The city sticker thread prompted me to type this.

I have a rant.

Someone explain to me what taxes are for?

It's all BS. A friend and I had a long discussion about this the other day.

You take a ride in an ambulance...you have to pay. (not right)

You want to play soccer when the sun goes down, you have to pay ($100 an hr or something ridiculous like that to have them turn the lights on for you).

Crappy roads, you pay by having to drive over them. (look at Oak Brook, 22nd Street and portions of 83 are some of the worst roads in the area, and the town has the highest per capita income in the area).

Police hardly protect and serve nowadays (for the most part…I’d like Dean’s or another officers opinion here, just because I’m uneducated on an officers’ actual day to day duties, so this is only an uneducated assumption based on what I’ve seen), its more of a punish type duty. And I'm a good citizen, its not like I'm in trouble with the Police ever and feel they’re not doing THE job. I just don't see the serve portion. Its all business. More tickets = more money. Not there fault, but if you give a salesperson a quota, they will focus much more energy on selling than on customer service (ticketing vs. serving). When I was younger and worked at Yorktown Mall, I had an officer that worked for Lombard that gave me the low down on how crappy it was there because it was all about writing tickets. Also, when I was in highschool, I locked my keys in the car. Cop saw a few of us standing there trying to break in with a screwdriver, pulled up, checked our ID's and ran us, then said good luck with a smirk. I asked if he had that tool to open doors, he said he did, I asked if he could help, he said no…then proceeded to continue cruising the area. Maybe it’s the fact that Police have to deal with crappy people all the time, which could make you believe most/all people are bad, but a little more HELP would be good. (**note, not saying police are bad people, just that their job role has changed. Dean, and a few officers that are my clients are GREAT people, but in general I see that the police officer position is not what one would expect, again not ragging on the Police, I’m ragging on the administration and or governments that make for this**)

I could go on and on about what’s not covered by taxes that should be. And I know the response is…we need more money for that, so we need to raise taxes, and no one wants that. And that’s a garbage excuse…especially when it comes to government agencies. How about instead of raising income at the sake of the public, they cut costs. How much excess money is spent? With my business background, I guarantee you I could go into any business and cut costs significantly. But people don’t want that. It’s a fact. If you don’t use your whole budget, then next year your budget will be less, and your portion will go to someone else. Therefore, if you are budgeted $, it is in your best interest to meet and exceed that amount year in and year out in order to continue to have that budget.

Don’t get me wrong though, btw, I do appreciate many things that taxes are used for and the efforts of the Police and government officials to keep us safe. I just feel the businesses are improperly operated.
PolishPete is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Super Moderator

 
Vcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Winfield
Posts: 43,229
Location: Winfield
Sportbike: bikeless
Years Riding: 10
How you found us: Shit, you know I'm a clsb OG!
           
Send a message via AIM to Vcook
you're right, everything should be free! Capitalism is for fools, China has it figure out!

Chris
Vcook is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 03:45 PM
Former Chicagoian
 
DefyInertia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 864
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sportbike: 950 Super Enduro / FZ6 / 640 ADV
Years Riding: Never enough!
How you found us: SBN
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishPete View Post
Someone explain to me what taxes are for?


I could go on and on about what’s not covered by taxes that should be.
check out page 86 for starters (fed taxes)

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040.pdf

What have you done to change this?

A superior rider uses superior judgment to avoid situations that require superior skill.
DefyInertia is offline  
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 03:54 PM
urban outdoorsmen
 
nureyedr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Loop Chicago
Posts: 125
Location: West Loop Chicago
Sportbike: 2006 GsxR 600 2006 Husky 610sm
Years Riding: 4-5
How you found us: Google
           
Send a message via AIM to nureyedr
This reminds me of a weird stat I heard in one of my Econ classes a while back: If the government continues to grow at the pace that is has been we'll need a 100% tax rate in 2070 (or something) to keep up.

(doesn't seem to work as well if I don't remember the exact numbers)

-Wally
nureyedr is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 04:20 PM
.
 
jimzx9r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: .
Posts: 8,299
Location: .
Sportbike: .
Years Riding: .
How you found us: .
           
this thread has useful written all over it.
jimzx9r is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 05:52 PM
Retired but still working
 
Dean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,089
Location: Plainfield, IL
Sportbike: 1994 H/D Softail Custom
Years Riding: Long Enough
How you found us: search
           
Send a message via Yahoo to Dean
I will be very honest with you Pete... to offer you a true answer to your thoughts here would take all the bandwidth CLSB has and more. I have never been one to pull any punches with clear statements regarding law enforcement, but at the same time, I refuse to comment on some of the writings placed in the forum - because of that issue.

This is an open forum which means it is open for the general public to see. Months ago someone photochopped a CLSB member's face onto a photo used in a local newspaper where we were attempting to identify a suspect of a crime in our town. Guess who got a phone call three weeks later when someone from the general public saw the photo "off a basic search" and forwarded it through our citizen survey site? Yours truly.

I can offer you answers on what taxes are "normally" used for - I can offer you answers to which taxes are "normally" used for what - and I can try to answer general questions about policing.

But I have no choice but to avoid specifics as they relate to job readiness, people's so-called 'quotas' (I went through that discussion anyway), opertional concerns, community policing, etc.

Last year my taxes went up 37% and I started a thread about it. I learned that Will County passed the largest school tax referendum in the State's history. Do I not want to fund our teachers and educators with a paying job and a future for retirement - sure I do; they have just as tough and sometimes terrible job as I do. But here is the kicker... I pay the same tax rate as someone who has 4 children in school where I have none. To add to it, I will never have a child in school. And then, people who have children get a refund at the end of the year. This is not a stab at teaching or children by any means; just basic taxing fundamentals, so I will stop this here and consider it a point made.

Now, I will offer this much on budgeting, funding and policing in a suburb. Here is what I want you to do. Get a map and find your borders. Now, go to your towns website and take the total amount of your sworn officers and divide it by 3. Now subtract 10-15% of that number for administrative personnel and another 15% for days off, holidays, birthdays, graduations, anniverarys, etc... Now, spread each paying taxing body within your community these officer's salaries for one year.

For instance, you have 15,000 tax paying parties in your community. Your town covers an area of 10 square miles. Lets say each of the estimated 3.5 officers per 15,000 residents working their eight hour shift is making $60,000 per year attempting to keep every person's home, child and property safe from harm 24 hours a day - 7 days a week. Do the math and please tell me you and your family's personal property and well being is worth less than that figure.

Now some of the mathemeticians and financial wizards are going to say it is inconceivable to come up with a fair number because it depends on how much income the property owner is bringing in - residential v. commericial, and so on. Please take into account a $60,000 salary is what is on paper. Do you honestly think an officer takes 100% of that home to his growing family to maintain his or her property? I can tell you - since it is public information - I lose 31.9% of my paycheck to outside concerns before the final check hits my bank account. So now, that $60K is down to somewhere near $40K take home. Please tell me your personal, family, household and visitors safety is worth than a $40K officer's take home salary spread amongst the community while you are enjoying your Thanksgiving dinner or your trackday while I am driving down the streets of the town you pay your taxes in to ensure you come home to everything you left or no one steals your turkey.

Yes, this topic hit a nerve - not you Pete, this is never personal. The "general" public - and I use that term loosely, will most likely never understand budgeting on a public level. If this post presents more direct questions, I or some of the other LEO's will try to answer them.

Dean

What do the internet and Channel 11 have in common? They are both a window to the world; put it out there and do not be surprised who will see it.
Dean is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 05:56 PM
Joe Momma...
 
JoJo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oak Park
Posts: 3,822
Location: Oak Park
Sportbike: None
Years Riding: 1,2,4,5 count d'z rocks biatch!
How you found us: member
           
Send a message via AIM to JoJo
Hey Pete, who'd you vote for in the last election?

My name is JB, people call me JB

Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy
"I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy catch a pass with his ass cheeks"
JoJo is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 06:38 PM
It's a strange world.
 
tetsujin79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lansing, IL
Posts: 210
Location: Lansing, IL
Sportbike: Red '06 SV650S
Years Riding: Since '01
How you found us: http://www.1000rr.net
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefyInertia View Post
check out page 86 for starters (fed taxes
I checked out page 86, very informative.

It'd be nice if you could get a tax credit for taking care of your older realtives instead of having them get SS checks and Medicare.

Or how about police, soldiers, and veterans getting some tax credit too? Whatever taxes they are paying are being paid to them as salary, so why not skip the middleman?


This is the part where local and national elected officials matter to further my concerns and wants, right?
tetsujin79 is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 06:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago Illinois
Posts: 3,453
Location: Chicago Illinois
Sportbike: Triumph Bonneville...the original sportbike!
Years Riding: Since about 11 years after my adult teeth came in
How you found us: I tripped over ya on my way to the can!
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook View Post
you're right, everything should be free! Capitalism is for fools, China has it figure out!
Yeah...China has it down...when the subjects..er citizens go out in public to ask why there isn't enough food to go around or why old & disabled people are left to die because the government doesn't want to pay for their care etc. they turn tanks on their unarmed a$$es and that settles 'em right down and makes 'em as content as can be!
OldTimeBiker is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 06:58 PM
Registered User
 
iamnotgreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 12,529
Location: Chicago
Sportbike: 2003 Aprilia Mille R Colin Edwards / 01-02 Ninj ZX6r Tracktoy / 2003 SV650
Years Riding: 12
How you found us: some guy at the IBM credit union told me about it
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeBiker View Post
Yeah...China has it down...when the subjects..er citizens go out in public to ask why there isn't enough food to go around or why old & disabled people are left to die because the government doesn't want to pay for their care etc. they turn tanks on their unarmed a$$es and that settles 'em right down and makes 'em as content as can be!
Who told you China isn't capitalistic?
China practices a more pure form of capitalism than we do.
Profits are king, anything for a buck. No morals, but face is important...

I argue that China is the most capitalistic society on the planet right now.

How exactly are they communist anyway? (I know that's what's on the flyer.. but I think it's a lie)

and to the person that asked "who did you vote for?"
what's the difference? All politicians are out there for the same reasons.. To transfer money from your pocket into theirs or their friends... Or to gain power.. Or to do both.. Democrats and Republicans.. 2 sides of the same coin.
btw... I live in Chicago.. So perhaps Daily and his friends and family paint a clearer picture of how politics really work than the govts out in the burbs (with the exception of that bitch in cicero ) - He is long past knowing he will never get in trouble for ANYTHING that happens.. I dont even think he tries to make it look legit anymore

Do as I say, not as I do.
iamnotgreg is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 07:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Burbs
Posts: 946
Location: Burbs
Sportbike: ??<-COMING SOON
Years Riding: 1
How you found us: Some dude
           
I hear ya Pete that whats pretty great about this country is that you are able to voice your opinion. Like Bob Marley sang "you can't please all the people all the time" I guess that's the way it is at least we have a choice to live here or not.
Crazy Train is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 07:27 PM
Joe Momma...
 
JoJo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oak Park
Posts: 3,822
Location: Oak Park
Sportbike: None
Years Riding: 1,2,4,5 count d'z rocks biatch!
How you found us: member
           
Send a message via AIM to JoJo
Quote:
Originally Posted by gconsier View Post
what's the difference? All politicians are out there for the same reasons.. To transfer money from your pocket into theirs or their friends... Or to gain power.. Or to do both.. Democrats and Republicans.. 2 sides of the same coin.
If enough people felt the same way as you and Pete and actually voted with that in mind we wouldn't have a turd sandwich and a giant douche in every election. Then again those people are more interested in feeling sorry for themselves and complaining than actually working to change something they think needs to be changed.

My name is JB, people call me JB

Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy
"I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy catch a pass with his ass cheeks"
JoJo is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 07:36 PM
Super Moderator

 
Vcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Winfield
Posts: 43,229
Location: Winfield
Sportbike: bikeless
Years Riding: 10
How you found us: Shit, you know I'm a clsb OG!
           
Send a message via AIM to Vcook
1. i was being sarcastic
2. i know all about china's special economic zones, i chose them for my sarcasm since they're the most readily accesible communist state.
3. carry on!

Chris
Vcook is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 07:43 PM
Bop your way home...
 
Dr. D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: on the move in Texas
Posts: 5,622
Location: on the move in Texas
Sportbike: Hypermotard
Years Riding: since 99'
How you found us: Googled "bullshit artists"
           
I like taxes, they allow me to take a lot of things for granted.

-Alan-
Balancing the Paradox
of Art and Profit
Dr. D is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 08:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago Illinois
Posts: 3,453
Location: Chicago Illinois
Sportbike: Triumph Bonneville...the original sportbike!
Years Riding: Since about 11 years after my adult teeth came in
How you found us: I tripped over ya on my way to the can!
           
Did I say China wasn't capitalistic? I didn't say China wasn't capitalistic! I agree that that they are. But, their brand of capitalism is by far more exploitive of the worker than our brand, and they lack the freedom of speech and right to bear arms and right to address grievances that we have. It's actually a sad irony...All that propaganda how the western system needed to be toppled because it exploited the workers so badly...and just look what they've become. It's also a sad reality that we've become so dependant on their ability to manufacture for us...and they have zero respect for human rights! They also have 0 respect for the enviroment and it's us who take all the blame and all the heat from most of the rest of the world!

I know you were being sarcastic Vcook...I was too.

On Topic: It's not the taxes that are the problem, they are necessary. The problem is the waste and indifference that permeates those who levy and collect the taxes. Throw the bums out, and if the new bums don't do the job...throw them out!
OldTimeBiker is offline  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 08:58 PM
Registered User
 
VTEC_EATER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Posts: 404
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Sportbike: 2004 GSXR750 (street/track), 2003 ZX6R 636 (track)
Years Riding: I think Im on my 3rd now
How you found us: From other web forums (SBN, NESBA)
           
Why cant it be like "Brewster's Millions"

"VOTE NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!"

Seriously, cant that be an option? Why are we stuck electing the lesser of two evils all the time? Since I turned 18 Ive always had to choose the lesser of two evils. Those who are older than me, or who have a different political view/agenda than me, may have a different experience.

But whats so wrong with saying none of the candidates are worthy of this job they are campaigning for. I think it should be on every ballot form. If these people are no good, we get different ones and have them duke it out for the job. As the employers of our public officials, shouldn't we have the right to not hire them?

As for the police, Im very happy with the police work going on here on Chicago's north shore. Nice and safe. Keep up the good work I say. As for the parking checkers, well...



They can kiss my ass.

Tom DeCoste aka "Tommy Tarmac"
Nesba #611 Advanced
VTEC_EATER is offline  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 09:04 PM
Fear is the mind killer
 
ChiefBD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waukegan,IL
Posts: 8,772
Location: Waukegan,IL
Sportbike: 05 GSXR 600, 03 RM 250
Years Riding: Thousands of miles, multiple engines
How you found us: www.gsxr.com
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTimeBiker View Post
Did I say China wasn't capitalistic? I didn't say China wasn't capitalistic! I agree that that they are. But, their brand of capitalism is by far more exploitive of the worker than our brand, and they lack the freedom of speech and right to bear arms and right to address grievances that we have. It's actually a sad irony...All that propaganda how the western system needed to be toppled because it exploited the workers so badly...and just look what they've become. It's also a sad reality that we've become so dependant on their ability to manufacture for us...and they have zero respect for human rights! They also have 0 respect for the enviroment and it's us who take all the blame and all the heat from most of the rest of the world!


You may not see it yet, but I see us looking more and more like China daily. Some of the things they do to their people are being done to illegal aliens and citizens here.

Xbox Live GOW Killer
Handle : ChiefBDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
"Ride it like you have 30 monthly remaining payments" should keep most people out of trouble.
ChiefBD is offline  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 12:22 AM Thread Starter

 
PolishPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suburbs, IL
Posts: 2,471
Location: Suburbs, IL
Sportbike: 600rr
Years Riding: 7 years
How you found us: From friends
           
Regarding the taxes, I think there's only been one post that's understood my point. It's not that I don't like paying taxes or don't agree with them. I disagree with what seems like a waste of tax dollars, or a mishandling of them. I think things could be leaner, and instead of charging taxes and city stickers, they could just charge your taxes and do whats right with it. I work for a Mutual Insurance company. It is the biggest insurance company in the U.S. After reviewing how we operate and how Allstate, the second largest operates (public company), I can confidently argue that no company other than one in a field that needs large capital to invest in technology (cell phones/medicine/etc) because money will be inappropriately handled. That's my main concern...we pay SOOO much, but our soccer fields can't have lights on at night and an ambulance ride costs hundreds...and I live in a town of 60,000 people, so there's no shortage of $ paid in taxes.

Regarding the police, I'm getting a lot of responses here about how you guys are happy with their job or what not, and my point here wasn't to rip on police and say they're not doing their job...it was to say there is a conflict of interest in setting a quota for tickets and "serving and protecting". You can't do both. Thats a fact. A sales person who fears for their job and must hit their numbers will not help you at the end of the month if you need good customer service, because their livelihood depends on them getting a sale. All the sudden you're not so important as a consumer (that's what I meant). Now I know for fact it is NOT every department that does this, and if they do, its not the officers fault but the administrations. I gave an example of Lombard which was given to me by an officer that worked there (this was 3 years ago, could be different now). They were pressured for #'s, and it was a joke. They couldn't wait to get out of there. So rather than focus on the people, they were forced to focus on the #'s. That's my rant. Someones who's job description is to serve and protect people, should not have to focus on the punishing factor (this should be a result of protecting). I don't have any peeves at officers in general, rather administration. And again, this is only because of what I heard through the grape vine, I do not know for solid fact but am assuming it to be rather true. Maybe a LEO could expand?

I'm not sure where the comparisons to China play into this. Apples and oranges? May Canada if anything, but this is more a US thing.

I don't think "the man" is doing a good job of handling our tax money...causing them to do things like make quotas for police, MAKE everyone buy city stickers (this really makes me mad...glad my town doesn't do it), and so on. That's my rant.
PolishPete is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chicagoland Sportbikes forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome