Giving advice to new riders... - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Giving advice to new riders...

I was talking with a good friend who has been riding for 22 years. He and I are the same age, but he has far more riding experience than I. He has almost 250000 miles under his belt.

Anyways, he was talking about how some of the folks in the community where is a part give such bad advice to young riders. He lives in Virginia and takes time to spend with new riders when he can.

My question or comment to folks is, how confident are you in the advice you give new riders? Are you speaking from loads of experience? I remember last year, on one of our rides, someone mentioned following the person in front of them and watching to see what they did. I think it was Ken who said somethign along the lines of, "be careful - they might not know what they are doing." I agree.

I am wondering, with the size of our community, if we shouldn't have some "official" people who have a lot of skill and can be vouched for by the leadership to be the ones known to have the "right" advice. It may be asking too much, but I get concerned with some of the advice given from people who have been riding only a few years or have been doing track days for a year or less. I am not pointing fingers, and I know who knows their stuff. I doubt the new people do, however.

We all want to help, but I wonder if we should have a titel for them in their avatar so we know that they have been "acredited" to give advice? May be too much. It's what my buddy is starting in his community and I thought it may do well. If it has no place, then so be it. Just thinking outloud...

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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:31 PM
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I usually dont give tons of advice seeing as im always learning more myself but if i do its advice that somebody has given me and proved it work. Like for instance ken's free class last year taught me tons about riding slow in parking lots.

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:33 PM
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i was trying to work on this a few years ago. something about ride leaders and those that follow and learn from.

we do need leaders in the sense of this, people that people can turn to.

as i have stated from day 1, me and tony are here to help.

i can say i got over 250k under my belt but that makes no difference if your not a good rider.

i will take this task up and it can only go as far as people willing to help me.

i can not and will not be able to be everywhere.

and those that want to help CLSB must be CLSB loyal and true to my cause not there own.


good thread paul!!



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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:40 PM
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Ha ha ha. I'll give anyone advice, if they're dumb enough to want it from me.

Here's some: Decide to go racing. Go out the first weekend and try like hell to win every class you enter. Crash. Take a 3 week, unpaid vacation. Recuperate, and repeat.

Feel free to ask me anything you like...

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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:44 PM
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:46 PM
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Best advice ive gotten was ride your own ride. You wont be left behind and do what you can handle. Eventually with time you will progress and keep up with some of us assholes and you can then be stupid like a lot of us are.

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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:57 PM
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My fav is guys who just started riding a month or 2 ago that try to tell new riders "they'll be fine on a GSYZCBZX1500RR".
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:01 PM
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:04 PM
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which side is the clutch and which is the brake...i can't get my bike to start rolling for some reason? i always jerks violently when i let go of the levers but i don't know why...please help

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:04 PM
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My fav is guys who just started riding a month or 2 ago that try to tell new riders "they'll be fine on a GSYZCBZX1500RR".
But they will be...
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:04 PM
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and as you can see, certain people believe there are so right. when they are so wrong.

peoples feelings get hurt, people feel not wanted or left out.

control and order needs to be had to certain things. but when there is order there are those that feel the need to run away cause they dont share the same thoughts or what not.

the biggest problem i saw then and i still see it now is, me and tony should be the ones to decide whom we feel are good enough that me and tony can say with full honesty and pledge this person (whom ever it my be or how many it might be is a good source "CLSB backed" then you have others i told no to.

there feelings get hurt, and so on and so on.

there for without me looking like the bad guy or tony, or whom ever.....its another touchy subject.

open forums...gotta love it.



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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YZFRob View Post
My fav is guys who just started riding a month or 2 ago that try to tell new riders "they'll be fine on a GSYZCBZX1500RR".
But starting on a slower bike is pure common sense for us Aussies. With twelve month seasons, quality roads, helmet laws and graduated licenses, we accept the skill progression much easier than a country which allows riders to dictate their own progression based on the size of their wallet or their credit score.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:08 PM
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Good thread, I normally shy away from giving advice unless I know for sure it is good advice, as I am still learning all the time. I mainly stick to ride slow like Mort82 said, take baby steps to get better, wear full gear all the time (even pants). There is the quick, costly, and painful way to learn how to ride, or the slow, smooth, more efficient way to learn how to ride .

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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:10 PM
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:11 PM
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
i was trying to work on this a few years ago. something about ride leaders and those that follow and learn from.

we do need leaders in the sense of this, people that people can turn to.

as i have stated from day 1, me and tony are here to help.

i can say i got over 250k under my belt but that makes no difference if your not a good rider.

i will take this task up and it can only go as far as people willing to help me.

i can not and will not be able to be everywhere.

and those that want to help CLSB must be CLSB loyal and true to my cause not there own.


good thread paul!!
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Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post
and as you can see, certain people believe there are so right. when they are so wrong.

peoples feelings get hurt, people feel not wanted or left out.

control and order needs to be had to certain things. but when there is order there are those that feel the need to run away cause they dont share the same thoughts or what not.

the biggest problem i saw then and i still see it now is, me and tony should be the ones to decide whom we feel are good enough that me and tony can say with full honesty and pledge this person (whom ever it my be or how many it might be is a good source "CLSB backed" then you have others i told no to.

there feelings get hurt, and so on and so on.

there for without me looking like the bad guy or tony, or whom ever.....its another touchy subject.

open forums...gotta love it.
Thanks Ken. I remember seeing some threads from way back about "official" ride leaders and what not. This would be a big undertaking if it were to come to pass. There are obvious "liability" issues to when you put "CLSB Backed" on their title and they give advice and someone gets into an accident citing they followed such advise. Even if somethign like that isn't doable, perehaps making sure that the people who are giving the advice are qualified to do so. You can't be watching every thread, obviously.

I guess that if someone is spoputing BS, however, someone will speak up and call them on it. The nice thing about having such a large community is that there are plenty of good people watching what is said.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:14 PM
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Here's some: Decide to go racing. Go out the first weekend and try like hell to win every class you enter. Crash. Take a 3 week, unpaid vacation. Recuperate, and repeat.
Didn't you learn anything from what Marshall wrote?

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:16 PM
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I always give the same advice...take a good learn to ride course, always wear a helmet, gloves and boots and at least jeans and a jacket that can stand up to a little abrasion, more gear if you got it, and to ride defensively, as if you're invisible!
That's good basic advice...beyond that I refer them to #1...a good learn to ride course.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:17 PM
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I think if someone wants to be sure that they are getting good advice they should go do trackday and work with a CR or attend some sort of school like ride chicago. There is always going to be people giving out bogus advice and its impossible to hold them accountable for it. There also always going to be disagreements between experienced riders on riding advice....the decreasing radius thread is a prime example. Besides if someone is giving bogus advice on the forums he is bound to get called out by someone on it anyways.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcohenchicago View Post
Thanks Ken. I remember seeing some threads from way back about "official" ride leaders and what not. This would be a big undertaking if it were to come to pass. There are obvious "liability" issues to when you put "CLSB Backed" on their title and they give advice and someone gets into an accident citing they followed such advise. Even if somethign like that isn't doable, perehaps making sure that the people who are giving the advice are qualified to do so. You can't be watching every thread, obviously.

I guess that if someone is spoputing BS, however, someone will speak up and call them on it. The nice thing about having such a large community is that there are plenty of good people watching what is said.
YEP and those ARE BIG issues when its my ass on the line getting sued.

which is why i dropped it back then and why i just let it be.

there is only so much that can be done on a open forum, none private member club like this.

everyone has an opinion and everyones differs in it.

REALITY SUCKS ASS! but its reality we live in. some of the things people say and do on here on a daily basis can wind them up in court sued big time that there loose are there shit and ill the shit they will ever own.

IE: example (chicagoo bike cycle motorsports sucks ass!! dont ever go to them) paul you know what i am talking about with me saying that you know what could happen.

now turn that over to saying (example: paul C.) is CLSB certified to be a group ride leader, and also a instructor. what happens if someone wants to sue YOU for something you did, and most of all CLSB owners.

the liability is out of the roof.

which is why sometimes its hard for me to speak my mind to what i FEEL! or keep it shut in fear of being sued.

all i ever wanted to do is help and its been a gigantic challenge sometimes cause of the way things are now a days.


today is not a good day for me to problem solve i tell ya, i got alot of stuff going with work..lol



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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
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I think if someone wants to be sure that they are getting good advice they should go do trackday and work with a CR or attend some sort of school like ride chicago. There is always going to be people giving out bogus advice and its impossible to hold them accountable for it. There also always going to be disagreements between experienced riders on riding advice....the decreasing radius thread is a prime example. Besides if someone is giving bogus advice on the forums he is bound to get called out by someone on it anyways.
you see and thats the thing. i cant live with people giving out bogus crap!

but if i call em on it. what happens...people get there feelings hurt/drama.

it seems i cant win (for you all to win in getting the right).....



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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:45 PM
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YEP and those ARE BIG issues when its my ass on the line getting sued.

which is why i dropped it back then and why i just let it be.

there is only so much that can be done on a open forum, none private member club like this.

everyone has an opinion and everyones differs in it.

REALITY SUCKS ASS! but its reality we live in. some of the things people say and do on here on a daily basis can wind them up in court sued big time that there loose are there shit and ill the shit they will ever own.

IE: example (chicagoo bike cycle motorsports sucks ass!! dont ever go to them) paul you know what i am talking about with me saying that you know what could happen.

now turn that over to saying (example: paul C.) is CLSB certified to be a group ride leader, and also a instructor. what happens if someone wants to sue YOU for something you did, and most of all CLSB owners.

the liability is out of the roof.

which is why sometimes its hard for me to speak my mind to what i FEEL! or keep it shut in fear of being sued.
Dude- there is no way to sue you- they have to prove that they were following your advice, besides that, listening to advice and actually doing it are two different things. We can preach "ride your own ride", but the reality is that some people have too big of egos and dont even realize it. MSF trainees dont try to sue the state when a truck pulls out in front of them..........riding a motorcycle is and always will be a manged risk, how much any individual actually "manages" it is their own will. If you told me to jump a curb, and I did it and balled my shit, am I gonna go to a lawyer and tell him I want to sue because "he told me to do it?"

Just put a poll/post up to nominate peeps, then a disclaimer at the end that "CLSB does not endorse the results" private poll, no-one knows who voted how - just a reference thread for newbies.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Insomniac View Post
But starting on a slower bike is pure common sense for us Aussies. With twelve month seasons, quality roads, helmet laws and graduated licenses, we accept the skill progression much easier than a country which allows riders to dictate their own progression based on the size of their wallet or their credit score.
You are contradicting yourself. If starting out on a small bike is common sense they why does there need to be a law for graduated licenses? Logically if Aussies know they should start on a small bike they would do it without the law, ergo making the law superfulous. Yet the law exists.

BTW, I've seen some stuff Aussies do and they lack just as much common sense as everyone else.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Dude- there is no way to sue you-
People sue everyone these days. It doesn't mean they will win. I'd hate to see Tony and Ken asking for donations for their legal bills Tony already has my 848 so I better keep quiet before he keeps that from me

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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
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Dude- there is no way to sue you- they have to prove that they were following your advice, besides that, listening to advice and actually doing it are two different things. We can preach "ride your own ride", but the reality is that some people have too big of egos and dont even realize it. MSF trainees dont try to sue the state when a truck pulls out in front of them..........riding a motorcycle is and always will be a manged risk, how much any individual actually "manages" it is their own will. If you told me to jump a curb, and I did it and balled my shit, am I gonna go to a lawyer and tell him I want to sue because "he told me to do it?"

I would never do it, but there are some people who would try, it is pretty messed up, these would be the same folks who attempt to sue McDonalds for hot coffee that they spilled on themselves and got burned .

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"Ride it like you have 30 monthly remaining payments" should keep most people out of trouble.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:58 PM
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Dude- there is no way to sue you- they have to prove that they were following your advice, besides that, listening to advice and actually doing it are two different things. We can preach "ride your own ride", but the reality is that some people have too big of egos and dont even realize it. MSF trainees dont try to sue the state when a truck pulls out in front of them..........riding a motorcycle is and always will be a manged risk, how much any individual actually "manages" it is their own will. If you told me to jump a curb, and I did it and balled my shit, am I gonna go to a lawyer and tell him I want to sue because "he told me to do it?"

Just put a poll/post up to nominate peeps, then a disclaimer at the end that "CLSB does not endorse the results" private poll, no-one knows who voted how - just a reference thread for newbies.
well i dont like talking about personal shit so ill just touch on it a bit.
ive been sued from something on here. "but i wont give details to aid or hinder the next asshole in line"
i won! now read my reply to paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcohenchicago View Post
People sue everyone these days. It doesn't mean they will win. I'd hate to see Tony and Ken asking for donations for their legal bills Tony already has my 848 so I better keep quiet before he keeps that from me

dam right anyone can sue. its not wither you are right or wrong!
its about how much it will cost to defend yourself!

there is so much i know and so much i can only speak about.
kegger ask me about law suits works, i have detailed knowledge



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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 03:02 PM
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How you found us: u found me
           
I guess when you have morals, you dont realize what a prick the other guy can be until its aimed at you.....its too bad too because all anyone here does is try to help peeps, albiet a bit abrasive at times..............

"When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve your situation, but it will end the suspense."
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 03:09 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Plainfield IL
Posts: 45,956
Location: Plainfield IL
Sportbike: A couple of pasta rockets
Years Riding: Since 1989
How you found us: In the beginning there was CLSB and Tony saw that it was good.
           
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcohenchicago View Post
Tony already has my 848 so I better keep quiet before he keeps that from me
I am waiting for you to forget I have it, did i mention that i have fallen in love with it?

and your right, this is a letigious world we live in, Ken and i have to watch every word we say.




HDTony.... Damn glad to meet you!

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

- Ronald Reagan

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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ill.
Posts: 17,550
Location: Ill.
Sportbike: 'nana.
Years Riding: Look at my join date, ruh-tard.
How you found us: SBN?
           
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Here's my advice:

Use common sense. Take what you want from a post and use it if you feel it's something worth learning. Listen to those that you have ridden with and TRUST. I for one only listen to a few, such as Rick, Jrock, and a few others. Although i do no post in the track forum, i read through it, and take pointers, and if it's something that i can use on the street (nothing like trail braking or backing it in, and such), i will use it. If it's a post i can gain something from, why not? After all, this is an OPEN forum, so again, i strongly urge that you take what you want from a post and go from there. If the OP sounds like a douche that doesn't know wth he's talking about, OBVIOUSLY skip through his post.

I personally post advice if it is something that i have experienced myself. Otherwise, i open my brain bucket and start saving stuff, ya heard.

So, with that said, chances are you guys will be skipping this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G2G
No one says you have to get drunk everytime you drink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoodles
Isn't that like having sex and not finishing though?
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 03:22 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alaska, WI
Posts: 15,711
Location: Alaska, WI
Sportbike: 2016 Honda Africa Twin & 1979 Honda CB750F
Years Riding: long enough to have fallen off a few times - glad I wear a helmet!
How you found us: Loose Lips Sink Ships, Loose Wires Cause Fires
           
I have some advice. If your forks are leaking, get them fixed.

That is all.


If you ain't with us, then it's just bad news.

Last edited by jrock; 05-08-2008 at 03:24 PM. Reason: I caught another typo
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