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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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E85

I thought I would never use E85. But Ford just sent me $50 in E85 coupons. So I figure I can just mix it in with my regular gas and then switch back. I mean 50 bucks is 50 bucks. But reading the pamphlets it stated Illinois will rebate $340 to $450 a year. That plus it being $.50 cheaper per gallon is starting to sway me. What do you guys think? Who has a flex fuel car? If you do, do you use E85 or regular?

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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 07:11 PM
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Does E85 get the same or similar fuel economy? Do the calculations and see if it is cheaper to use E85 than regular gasoline. If you get much worse fuel economy with E85, then its not worth switching over. If the fuel economy is the same or better, then I would consider switching over. Fuel is fuel to me, and if you get away using fuel that is $0.50 cheaper per gallon I don't see the problem.

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 07:18 PM
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My Avalanche is Flex fuel. I do not show any diferrence in mpg with regular or E85. But I save $0.50 to $0.60 a gallon with E85 just wish there were more stations. The Shell in Crystal lake I only save $0.30 or so but if I get into McHenry there is a mom n pop station I can save $0.60. lol but I burn the savings going up there to get it. So I only fill up when I go thru for opther reasons.

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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 07:24 PM
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"Although proponents of E85 claim significant environmental benefits, research is showing that the growing and harvesting of corn in the US for use in E85 fuel is most likely damaging the environment and contributing to global warming. The use of food crops for fuel is also raising the price of food in the US and worldwide."

The entire article can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85. On average you get 28% less fuel economy vs gasoline. Waste of time

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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 07:39 PM
 
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It's less than gas but it burns faster.

I get 300-350 miles on a tank with gasoline.

Only 225-250 miles on a tank of E85.

After multiple tanks of each and my calculations, it is cheaper for me to just run gas. IMO, I think it costs more to run E85, therefore I do not.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michowski View Post
"Although proponents of E85 claim significant environmental benefits, research is showing that the growing and harvesting of corn in the US for use in E85 fuel is most likely damaging the environment and contributing to global warming. The use of food crops for fuel is also raising the price of food in the US and worldwide."

The entire article can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85. On average you get 28% less fuel economy vs gasoline. Waste of time
CR's report on E85 is about 30% less fuel economy, however, corn harvesting adding to GW?!?!!?!? What research?

There needs to be a larger price difference in order for E85 to be worth it. We'll see as oil pushes past $125 a barrell..
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:10 PM
 
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There needs to be a larger price difference in order for E85 to be worth it. We'll see as oil pushes past $125 a barrell..

+1, put E85 at $1 per gallon, then it's cheaper than gas.
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:32 PM
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Only way E85 is worth it is if the engine is designed to use it, not get by on it, like the flex fuels can. E85 is an alcohol, it cools the intake charge and burns slower, keeping detonation at bay. With a properly designed E85 engine, you can crank up the compression and build the engine smaller, but get similar output to a bigger displacement gasoline engine. Smaller engine = better fuel economy = cheaper then gasoline.

E85, in the economic sense, is like diesel when used in an engine that is made for it. Diesel may cost like 30% more then gas, but if you get over 30% more mileage per gallon, it's the same or cheaper then running gasoline.

Last edited by tetsujin79; 05-08-2008 at 09:35 PM.
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streaker View Post
It's less than gas but it burns faster.

I get 300-350 miles on a tank with gasoline.

Only 225-250 miles on a tank of E85.

After multiple tanks of each and my calculations, it is cheaper for me to just run gas. IMO, I think it costs more to run E85, therefore I do not.
I know you get less gas mileage but if I get a rebate it might still be cheaper.

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michowski View Post
"Although proponents of E85 claim significant environmental benefits, research is showing that the growing and harvesting of corn in the US for use in E85 fuel is most likely damaging the environment and contributing to global warming. The use of food crops for fuel is also raising the price of food in the US and worldwide."

The entire article can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85. On average you get 28% less fuel economy vs gasoline. Waste of time

While that may be true.... I would rather see my fuel money go to support a corn farmer in the US instead of some country in the middle east. E85 is not a perfect solution, but it is at least a step towards producing our own fuel.

Also, I have run E85 in the '07 Tahoe I drive for work. I only see about a 1/2 mpg to 1 mpg difference between E85 and regular gas.

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin79 View Post
Only way E85 is worth it is if the engine is designed to use it, not get by on it, like the flex fuels can. E85 is an alcohol, it cools the intake charge and burns slower, keeping detonation at bay. With a properly designed E85 engine, you can crank up the compression and build the engine smaller, but get similar output to a bigger displacement gasoline engine. Smaller engine = better fuel economy = cheaper then gasoline.
.
My truck is designed for it and it is NOT cheaper than gasoline. I've ran about 5-6 tanks of each checking mileage at each fill. Therefore, E85 costs more not cheaper than gasoline. Don't let the price per gallon fool you either. Less mileage off a tank of E85=worse fuel mileage=more pumping=more money
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streaker View Post
My truck is designed for it and it is NOT cheaper than gasoline. I've ran about 5-6 tanks of each checking mileage at each fill. Therefore, E85 costs more not cheaper than gasoline. Don't let the price per gallon fool you either. Less mileage off a tank of E85=worse fuel mileage=more pumping=more money
Not trying to be an ass, but unless your truck can only run on E85, it is not designed for it, but is designed to use it as a fuel in addition to gasoline.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:59 PM
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I think what you're saying is today's E85 cars are set up to run on both and are not very effecient with E85 yet..

This can change as technology improves.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:01 PM
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I thought the point for alternate fuels were to get cheaper prices at the pump and clean up the enviroment. And yet this fuel does neither so what good is it. It not only makes the price at the pump go up, but also the prices of food at the store rise as well. Whats the point if it does the opposite of what we want?

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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin79 View Post
Not trying to be an ass, but unless your truck can only run on E85, it is not designed for it, but is designed to use it as a fuel in addition to gasoline.
are there any autos on the market that are designed for it?

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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michowski View Post
I thought the point for alternate fuels were to get cheaper prices at the pump and clean up the enviroment. And yet this fuel does neither so what good is it. It not only makes the price at the pump go up, but also the prices of food at the store rise as well. Whats the point if it does the opposite of what we want?
It is a start. Your opinion on it being worse for the environment is way off. Food at the store going up... you mean corn? Who cares? Corn is not the only product that we can produce ethonal from. The technology is new, it can get better if it is here long term.
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michowski View Post
I thought the point for alternate fuels were to get cheaper prices at the pump and clean up the enviroment. And yet this fuel does neither so what good is it. It not only makes the price at the pump go up, but also the prices of food at the store rise as well. Whats the point if it does the opposite of what we want?
For a minute it was cheaper then gas (which made it worthwhile).

Supply and demand took over and it became profitable to the suppliers and the demanders lose.

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
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are there any autos on the market that are designed for it?
Vehicles are made to run on E85 and regular gasoline, the problem is they are not as fuel effecient running on E85 yet.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:06 PM
 
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I think what you're saying is today's E85 cars are set up to run on both and are not very effecient with E85 yet..

This can change as technology improves.


Oh, got it now, his point was misunderstood. E85 only.....but how would you compare if you can only run E85??? Is there even a car that only runs on E85?
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
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For a minute it was cheaper then gas (which made it worthwhile), then when the suppliers of E85 saw the demand coming on and/or couldn't keep up with demand, profit was to be made.
Even the tequilla crop in Mexico switched over to E85 crop. Most of our gasoline already has 15% ethonal..
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:08 PM
 
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Most of our gasoline already has 15% ethonal..
Yep, they've added at least 10% for while now.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:09 PM
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Oh, got it now, his point was misunderstood. E85 only.....but how would you compare if you can only run E85??? Is there even a car that only runs on E85?
I doubt it is mass produced that way because E85 stations are not that abundant yet. A vehicle specifically designed for E85 only would probably do much better with MPG.

Last edited by CHI1000RR; 05-08-2008 at 10:15 PM.
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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I doubt it is mass produced that way because of E85 stations are not that abundant yet. A vehicle specifically designed for E85 only would probably do much better with MPG.


+1 You'd be screwed if it didn't get good mpg then. I don't see very many places with it either.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:15 PM
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The fed is really backing fuel cell technology so who knows. From what I understand, they have a challenge storing fuel in stations but Honda is set to sell a fuel cell vehicle in the US in less than 18 months.
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:25 PM
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I think what you're saying is today's E85 cars are set up to run on both and are not very effecient with E85 yet..
That's it! I just should have said that.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:28 PM
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The fed is really backing fuel cell technology so who knows. From what I understand, they have a challenge storing fuel in stations but Honda is set to sell a fuel cell vehicle in the US in less than 18 months.
Wasn't Honda running their FCX in California this year? Internet saysssss... Summer of 2008 in SoCal!

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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:30 PM
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I wish they made more cars that are diesel... why re-invent the wheel? Can't wait for new Diesel Jetta to hit USA markets in the fall. 40mpg city/50mpg highway. Screw Hybrids.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:32 PM
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I wish they made more cars that are diesel... why re-invent the wheel? Can't wait for new Diesel Jetta to hit USA markets in the fall. 40mpg city/50mpg highway. Screw Hybrids.
and what is Diesel made with? What the hell is a gallon of Diesel going for now.. $4.50?
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:36 PM
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin79 View Post
Only way E85 is worth it is if the engine is designed to use it, not get by on it, like the flex fuels can. E85 is an alcohol, it cools the intake charge and burns slower, keeping detonation at bay. With a properly designed E85 engine, you can crank up the compression and build the engine smaller, but get similar output to a bigger displacement gasoline engine. Smaller engine = better fuel economy = cheaper then gasoline.

E85, in the economic sense, is like diesel when used in an engine that is made for it. Diesel may cost like 30% more then gas, but if you get over 30% more mileage per gallon, it's the same or cheaper then running gasoline.
Energy is energy, Diesel has more BTU's then gasoline, E85 has less then gas, probably about as much as propane.

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