soon i am gonna write a book for you guys to read about the FACTS of what you........ - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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soon i am gonna write a book for you guys to read about the FACTS of what you........

should do when it comes to group rides, riding with people you dont know. trying to keep up, trying to learn from someone you got no fucken clue what there skills are and your trying to follow.

i ALWAYS SPEAK this stuff at my Kens free lessons, i think its time you all read it when i get around to typing it out the best i can for YOUR OWN SAFETY!

it pains me to see people get hurt. if people care they will tell one another whats up and when it comes to group rides, or riding with people you dont know there is a set of guidelines if your smart! you will stick to!

if not, ride at your own RISK!

ive never typed it before the way i really feel like saying it. i think its time.


time for a reality slap.

"again once i get to it"



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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 01:34 AM
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The recent crashes are indeed discerning.

I read part of your link about group riding etiquette. Very good points.

The staging of riders by experience is a good idea, but this only works if folks are honest with themselves. As the ride becomes more technical, the natural order becomes more apparent.

Seeing the rider ahead of you at all times is NOT necessary. If they go through a curve faster than you're comfortable, it doesn't mean speed up to catch up. It means go through at whatever pace feels safe to you. The group will wait at the next stop/turn.

Perhaps breaking larger groups into smaller sub groups with leaders will help keep folks from bunching up?
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 01:44 AM
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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we go through this stuff each and every year. "as everyone does in life within a community"

why cause of new riders, or rider with a couple years of riding behind them. it doesn't matter how long you have ridden for, or how new you are or how long, accidents happen and what you can do to avoid them.

there are things to watch out for out there, there is so much to cover i dont where to to start when i do this that i dont want to take for granted assuming anyone knows any thing approach and do a write up as such or stages of skill and education/experience.


some of the issues i know after doing this for so LONG and also seeing and know and riding way before CLSB or even i got a computer or got AOL and started asking questions to learn more myself about different opinions back from the days of cycleworld? or some crap like that when me and vcook bumped into each other 8 years ago maybe 9?\

in short we cant all hold hands, i or you can not teach or even get through to some people untill the lesson hits HARD "its them that just got fucked up" some people dont want to read, which is why i do more hands on then anything "thats how adults learn cause its easyier


and face it most of us are lazy ass;s we just want the answers, and sometimes the cold hard facts, and fuck staging.

so i got alot to think about.

god knows there is all types of GREAT info out there that i plan to link to it for the peace hold your hand lets sit around a fire and jerk each other off in the moon light. then there is the way i get which is straight up no fucken bullshit.

but i havent been able to speak on line like that in a long time!

maybe its time.

you guys want me to take the time to do it?

voice up!



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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPz1100 View Post
The recent crashes are indeed discerning.

I read part of your link about group riding etiquette. Very good points.

The staging of riders by experience is a good idea, but this only works if folks are honest with themselves. As the ride becomes more technical, the natural order becomes more apparent.

Seeing the rider ahead of you at all times is NOT necessary. If they go through a curve faster than you're comfortable, it doesn't mean speed up to catch up. It means go through at whatever pace feels safe to you. The group will wait at the next stop/turn.

Perhaps breaking larger groups into smaller sub groups with leaders will help keep folks from bunching up?

sometimes slowing them down and bunching them up is good cause people dont listen for shit when they think there a AMA rider on the streets and you give them more room to fuck up.

there is more to being a leader then just leading a route. a person like that is called a guide.

leadership is a hard job, and when it comes to group rides? i gave it up long time ago cause i got sick and tired of people telling me all kinda shit from.

ahh do as i say not as i go crap
oh god here comes the speech again
what makes him think he is better then us?


and you name it i have heard it and felt the shit stick of my efforts turn into hate from ignorant people.


while i do not claim to know it all. most of everything i say is common sense


anyway, i need some sleep everyone take care.

here is a tip.

next time you go riding with ANYONE you dont know or know,if you don't like whats going on around you. signal someone your taking off. and go your own way.

don't trust everyone around you, NEVER until they have proven themselfs to you how they ride and when shit gets freaking how they react.




Last edited by Odysseys; 05-26-2008 at 02:25 AM.
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys View Post

next time you go riding with ANYONE you dont know or know,if you don't like whats going on around you. signal someone your taking off. and go your own way.

don't trust everyone around you, NEVER until they have proven themselfs to you how they ride and when shit gets freaking how they react.
that is so true. don't automatically trust that the new person knows their shit, despite how many years they claim to have been riding. there are lots of experienced squids out there (and and just as many awesome, safe riders with only a year or two under their belt).

be observant until you can get a sense for how the new guy or gal rides. i usually know within a few minutes whether someone is an asshole or not, and by the end of the day have a fairly good sense of their riding style in general.

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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 02:51 AM Thread Starter
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yep, also too the main issue is trust is earned. and each time we ride with someone we know or dont know its TRUST!

there for we all have our good days and bad and if they are on there bad, LEAVE by being polite but also know when your riding home. well i gotta remember not to ride next to that dude again.

anyway do me a favor cause you guys also have many good ideas and suggestions too.

if your in favor of me writing a CLSB thread dedicated to such issues as the FACTS of a group ride. let me know. once i get it done ill open it, and then all the good suggestions i see that isnt in it, ill add to it your or whom ever.

so i am thinking before this turns into a 50 page thread with good info all over.

lets try to organize it.

let me know if you want me to make it to. and ill do it when i can "maybe tomorrow" and then we can have a great useful thread if a person gives a shit to listen to and read it might save there life, and or get some insight that ALL PEOPLE are not equal.


my biggest issues since i am jaded and i still want to help is, SHOW ME you want help and ill extend my hand.

i have been tierd of doing it and took a 2 year break from it.

and will continue to do so. ask me is all it takes. you show me you care, i will show you i do.

you show me you dont care? guess what i am evil when i dont care.

also for what its worth, i hope some of the couple hundo people i have put on Kens free classes voice up on how i put it to them, and they will agree i dont bullshit in person.



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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 03:13 AM
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yes, i think it would be a tremendous service to this community to put together a group riding "manifesto". so there's one yay vote for ya!

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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 03:26 AM
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I am proud to say I was one of Kens Students, his experience taught me well especially about when things get hairy in turns. The next week I was on a group ride and for some dam reason an asshole decided to throw sand out in one of the turns, sure enough I felt my backend slip out! and ya know what IF I did not do what Ken taught me to I would of been [email protected]#@! I held my line, steered through it and came out unscathed! if felt great to be able to put what I learned into practice, I'm sure that things will not always turn out so glorious but that time it did. So I would suggest anyone with little to no ridding experience take his class cuz you might just learn something that can save your hide!
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 03:26 AM
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Well if you write a book, I hope you can afford the proof reader. He'll be working overtime alot.
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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 03:49 AM
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definitely would be a benefit to the CLSB community, and even other prospective riders out there that happen to Google questions on riding.
i'm a (fairly) new member and i've seen so much info in previous posts and in responses to my own questions.. a lot of good info comes outta this board, and i know that this new 'manifesto' would answer a lot of ppl's questions..

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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 09:23 AM
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This is a good idea. Especially for those who really want to learn something about group rides.

Some ideas that should be addressed or explained:

-setting the tone for the ride (understanding experience levels, speed, safety, expectations, etc...)
-explaining the difficulty or hazards of the route
-definition of "riding your own ride" (personally I hate this phrase because it gets thrown around so loosely without the explanation that it should be done in anyway to reduce risk to yourself and the people around you)
-passing traffic or another rider (think first and pass when its safe)
- definition of "checking your ego" (if you find yourself starting to make mistakes or leaving very little room for a mistake, slow down! conversely, just because you're faster, doesn't mean that you should ride like someone's chasing you or that you should ride up someone ass in an effort to make them speed up.)
-wheelies/stoppies (generally not acceptable on a group ride, but if your going to play around like that, do it in another lane far enough from the group so that if you bite it, you don't take anyone with you)

Just some thoughts that come to mind that I have experienced while on group rides. I enjoy them but really hate to see people get hurt when we're supposed to be having fun.

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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 09:49 AM
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+1 on a Group Ride Manifesto

I know I usually shy away from riding with newbs or people I don't know for many of the reasons heretofore given. I suspect its the same for others, and a common code of riding etiquette might assuage misgivings that some of us may have.

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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 10:05 AM
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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 10:25 AM
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I'm honest enough with myself to admit that a book like that would be very beneficial for me. I haven't done many group rides.
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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 12:06 PM
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Start writing!!!

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post #17 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 12:31 PM
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i would read it after i copy and past it into a word doc to correct all the spelling and grammar errors

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post #18 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for getting behind me on a stance on this!

also too yes ill try to grammar and spell check it. but i dont promise nothing!

i will try to express such issues so you can read in the comfort of your own chair instead of making the trip to listen to me talk about these things.

maybe soon ill be doing both.

or maybe just fade away when i cant take the crap no more like so many old timers before me.

if you havent noticed a TON of the more experienced riders and leaders have faded away!

why?

cause there sick and tired of talking to the wall, and people wont listen, or do there BEST to help those that are new.

i dont know how much more time i have left in me to still continue my efforts. but i know i will as long as there is a majority SHOWING ME they care!


trust me you dont want to see a Odysseys that is riding in your group and you crash cause you made a dumb ass move and your laying there in a ditch and i walk up and say, your an idiot, and squeeze the part that just got broke and ask? does this hurt and laugh

instead of usually. taking care of you the best i can to ease your pain and suffering and worries, and get your bike token somewhere to save you money later by taking it to a friends house, going with you to the hospital and insure your getting taken care of, and stay there if you need someones hand to hold, and after or during make sure your family knows where you at.
when you get out help you raise your spirts and be there waiting if you want to turn to me for anything.


i think i like the usual Odysseys myself



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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 05:36 PM
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Please include something about throttle control. A lot of times when I go on a group ride I get stuck behind or in front of people who don't know it. When the rider in front of them speeds up, they chop the gas and go flying up. Then they hit the brake and I have to hit the brake. It's like Gas, brake, gas brake... It gets annoying at times. You gotta use the throttle lightly when you are that close to people.
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post #20 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-26-2008, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Please include something about throttle control. A lot of times when I go on a group ride I get stuck behind or in front of people who don't know it. When the rider in front of them speeds up, they chop the gas and go flying up. Then they hit the brake and I have to hit the brake. It's like Gas, brake, gas brake... It gets annoying at times. You gotta use the throttle lightly when you are that close to people.
thats called the accordion affect and it sucks as much as it sounds no matter who is playing



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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:22 AM
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I can't wait, ken! This makes me happy because those of us who cannot make your free lessons will be able to read something and hopefully practice on our own.

I was in the group last time when it rained and I still learned a lot.

I'll help you proof read it!

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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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thanks.



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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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man io have gotten like 7 pm;s from people telling me things they want off the air, and i gotta tell you its disturbing!

fucken disturbing! how some people are around here.

with that info i will keep it confidential like i always do and do my best to turn it into positive enforcement. but i tell yeah, some people need a bitch slap up side the head.



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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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you know i am better at talking then i am typing and if am gonna do shit like this to help people i feel i need to do it in the best format to get my point across who is interested in video taping me and putting me on you tube or our own server?



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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 08:10 AM
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Good idea Ken. Not to sound like an old fart but I think one big problem is that many riders think they are invincible. Not always but this is typically common with young or new riders with less than 1 or 2 years under their belt.
I am no better than them either, when I was 19 and drove my cage I did some stupid shit that I wouldn't even dream of now. Luckily I didn't ride back then or I would not be around.
It is funny how the confidence of riding cuts both ways. Learning to ride can really give you a health amount of confidence and make you a better person. But many new riders after making their first maiden journey around the block think they have mastered riding. Mins. later they are try to cut lanes and learn to stunt. Unfortunately gory pictures and story's of what can happen if you are not 100% tuned in do not help at this stage. Typically it takes a really frightening "oh shit" moment that the rider has to experience to realize their mortality. Sadly since these riders get themselves in way over their heads there is no saving the bike and from these moments.
To be fair there are plenty of new cautious riders too but the meat heads sort of ruin it for many. It sounds funny and contrary but when I first started riding I was afraid of the bike in a way. A healthy fear/respect though. One that made me want to go out and ride everyday and stay out a bit longer and when arriving home being thankful a cager didn't kill me or that I didn't make any mistakes. Practice, practice....that is the fun amazing thing about this sport, you always learn something new about your ride and your abilities every ride out. Even if you have been riding 6 or 10 years.

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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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over 400 views, and maybe 10-11 people would like seeing it.

with that type of response it seems no one gives a shit, so ill do the same.



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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 10:51 AM
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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:01 AM
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I'm not the greatest group rider, I'd like a set of guidelines to help me improve.

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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
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over 400 views, and maybe 10-11 people would like seeing it.

with that type of response it seems no one gives a shit, so ill do the same.
Personally I'd enjoy hearing what you have to say. On a side note, I always enjoy reading your posts dealing with the mechanics of riding, alone or in a group, Ken.

The biggest thing is, its something YOU have to want to write, otherwise it becomes an assignment, which won't be as well thought out. Leading to just another craptastic piece of google archive.

The decision is yours alone. Thanks for all that you do regardless.

Ken.


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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:09 AM
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I for one do care.

I don't have near the level of experience that some people do, but there are a number of things I have seen on group rides that I don't like. You mentioned common sense at one point. Unfortunately, "common sense isn't". This applies to me as well. I've made some bone-headed moves before and was lucky. But in general, what I may construe as common sense, because of lack of experience, may be the exact opposite of what should be done in a situation. Then people may look at someone and think "dumbass". There is so much about riding that is counter intuitive that that many don't even think about asking, they just sit with a blank stare after a fall (if lucky) wondering what happened.

I applaud you for attempting to put together something like this. I'm also looking forward to attending your class this weekend. Any bit of knowledge or insight I pick up will be of benefit.

One more thing. I'm sure there are others who may want to chime in, but may be intimidated because of heckling they may receive. They may not want to "lose face" because of their lack of knowledge. Oh well, I gave up on giving a shit about what others think of me a long time ago. So let me say it, anything you can do to help us out would be greatly appreciated.
Luvin' Twins is offline  
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