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post #1 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Corporal punishment in schools

(CNN) -- More than 200,000 children were spanked or paddled in U.S. schools during the past school year, human rights groups reported Wednesday.


"Every public school needs effective methods of discipline, but beating kids teaches violence, and it doesn't stop bad behavior," wrote Alice Farmer, the author of a joint report from Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union. "Corporal punishment discourages learning, fails to deter future misbehavior and at times even provokes it."

Corporal punishment in schools remains legal in 21 U.S. states and is used frequently in 13: Missouri, Kentucky, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Florida, according to data received from the Office for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education and cited in the report.

The highest percentage of students receiving corporal punishment was in Mississippi, with 7.5 percent of students. The highest number was in Texas, with 48,197 students.

"When you talk to local school officials, they point to the fact that it's quick and it's effective -- and that's true," Farmer said. "It doesn't take much time to administer corporal punishment, and you don't have to hire someone to run a detention or an after-school program."

But she said, "We need forms of discipline that makes children understand why what they did was wrong."

In addition, corporal punishment can be linked to poverty and lack of resources. For instance, the report said, "Teachers may have overcrowded classrooms and lack resources such as counselors to assist with particularly disruptive students or classroom dynamics."

The punishment is disproportionately applied to black students, according to the organizations. During the 2006-07 school year, for instance, black students made up 17.1 percent of the nationwide student population but 35.6 percent of those paddled at schools.

Black girls were paddled at twice the rate of their white counterparts in the 13 states using corporal punishment most frequently. And although boys are punished more often than girls, the report found that African-American students in general are 1.4 times more likely to receive corporal punishment.

In addition, special education students with mental or physical disabilities were more likely to receive corporal punishment, according to the ACLU and Human Rights Watch.

Evangelical leader James Dobson's influential Focus on the Family group is among those stopping short of calling for a full ban on paddling in schools.

"Corporal punishment is not effective at the junior and senior high school levels, and I do not recommend its application," Dobson said on the organization's Web site.

"It can be useful for elementary students, especially with amateur clowns (as opposed to hard-core troublemakers). For this reason, I am opposed to abolishing spanking in elementary schools because we have systematically eliminated the tools with which teachers have traditionally backed up their word. We're now down to a precious few. Let's not go any further in that direction."

Andrea Cancellare said her then-13-year-old son was paddled -- or "swatted" -- three years ago for flicking rubber bands in class, despite the fact she had written a letter directing school officials in Alpine, Texas, not to use corporal punishment against him. School officials told her they could not find the letter when she complained.

When she approached the principal and superintendent, Cancellare said, they told her that "most parents like this because it takes care of the punishment. It gets the kids back in class. It doesn't disrupt instruction. It's like the quick and dirty way of dealing with discipline problems."

Alpine Independent School District Superintendent Jose Cervantes said that both the principal and superintendent have taken other jobs, but for the past several years, the district has had a clear policy allowing parents to sign a waiver form and opt out of corporal punishment.

"It works on some, and it doesn't work on others," Cervantes said. "If you're one of the individuals that it does work on, yes, it will become a deterrent."


Cancellare disagrees. "I don't think it's the school's place to make decisions like that," she said. "I'm not necessarily in favor of that kind of punishment in the house either, but I feel like if somebody makes that decision, it should be the parent."

Most states typically leave it up to individual districts whether to use corporal punishment, and some of the nation's largest school districts -- among them Houston and Dallas, Texas; Memphis, Tennessee; Atlanta, Georgia; and Mobile County, Alabama -- have banned the practice, according to the report.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/20/cor...iref=hpmostpop



I had no idea this was ok anywhere. Parents aren't supposed to spank their kids, but teachers can?
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post #2 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:29 AM
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haha, mississippi. I did 1st-4th grade there and the paddle was a common site, either hanging from a nail or more commonly resting in the chalk tray. I met the business end several times.

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post #3 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:34 AM
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haha, mississippi. I did 1st-4th grade there and the paddle was a common site, either hanging from a nail or more commonly resting in the chalk tray. I met the business end several times.
But now look what a well-behaved young man you have become.

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post #4 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:35 AM
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post #5 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:37 AM
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post #7 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:51 AM
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But now look what a well-behaved young man you have become.
You dont hear me complaining.

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post #8 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 10:55 AM
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interesting that all of the states where its legal are in the south
mean something?

Someone hits or paddles or spanks one of my kids? My foot meets THEIR ass 20 seconds longer than it takes me to drive to their school



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post #9 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:02 AM
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Funny how parents now days are like..."if anyone lays a hand on my kids, I'm going to lay my boots into them (the school teacher/administrator, etc)".
When I was in grade school (and I did get the business end of a wooden paddle on more than one occasion), my parents were like...."if you were behaving so badly that they felt the need to paddle you at school......YOUR ASS IS GRASS WHEN YOU GET HOME!"
It's a complete reversal in approach. Maybe if parents now days did the proper discplining at home, they wouldn't need to at school...

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post #10 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:03 AM
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Maybe if parents now days did the proper discplining at home, they wouldn't need to at school...
don't you mean wouldn't need to at school? and if that's indeed what you meant then +1M!!!!!


edit: you were editing it when i was quoting you. ha.

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post #11 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:06 AM
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post #12 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:07 AM
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They need to adopt that in more states. Growing up in the Soviet Union you got hit by a long ruler if you fucked up. Then the teacher would write a note to your parents saying what you did and then you receive the belt treatment from the parents.
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post #13 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:10 AM
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Just remove the kid from the school and make the parents/guardian deal with it. After a certain point, permanently remove the kid from the school... again, make the parents do their job.

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post #14 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:11 AM
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Funny how parents now days are like..."if anyone lays a hand on my kids, I'm going to lay my boots into them (the school teacher/administrator, etc)".
When I was in grade school (and I did get the business end of a wooden paddle on more than one occasion), my parents were like...."if you were behaving so badly that they felt the need to paddle you at school......YOUR ASS IS GRASS WHEN YOU GET HOME!"
It's a complete reversal in approach. Maybe if parents now days did the proper discplining at home, they wouldn't need to at school...
I completely agree, parents these days are over protective and don't understand the need for a good beating.
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post #15 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:16 AM
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I completely agree, parents these days are over protective and don't understand the need for a good beating.
I'll tweak this a bit w/ my own opinion...

Many are delusional with their parenting responsibility and believe that if they don't acknowledge a problem then it must not exist. "My little angel would NEVER do anything bad....how dare you suggest otherwise?!?!?!" blahblahblah

Now, as for the corrective measures... there are PLENTY of ways to obtain compliance and cooperation without physical contact. Most require pre-emptive intervention before it ever reaches that point to head it off.. And that means: More work... Many adults take the easy/lazy way out (See above about not acknowledging a problem in the first place) and only deal with things after they've ignored all the warning signs and the problem grew to a point where it smacked them in the face.


typo fix: angle-->angel

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Last edited by Arch; 08-20-2008 at 11:27 AM.
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post #16 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:24 AM
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I'll tweak this a bit w/ my own opinion...

Many are delusional with their parenting responsibility and believe that if they don't acknowledge a problem then it must not exist. "My little angle would NEVER do anything bad....how dare you suggest otherwise?!?!?!" blahblahblah

Now, as for the corrective measures... there are PLENTY of ways to obtain compliance and cooperation without physical contact. Most require pre-emptive intervention before it ever reaches that point to head it off.. And that means: More work... Many adults take the easy/lazy way out (See above about not acknowledging a problem in the first place) and only deal with things after they've ignored all the warning signs and the problem grew to a point where it smacked them in the face.

my little angle? bwahhahahaha...sorry.

they always gotta single out the black kids. imo it doesn't matter what color you are.

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post #17 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:26 AM
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HAHA, Dyslexic typing

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post #18 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:27 AM
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there is a line between corp. punishment and flat out abuse. and as far as the racial percentage, did they take into account that possably that those kids could have possably i know its hard to imagine been a trouble maker? doubtful

i like the way the army does it and i think it should be used in schools. hell back in the day when you get to the 82nd although hazeing has been "banned" your peers would hang out outside your barracks window tied in your sleeping bag.

the Air Force PJ's still do the finning hazeing. (beat your ass with a swimming fin, i watched it one day and F* that. that shit looked like it hurt. lol)

im down with humiliation and tough love. it teaches the weak to buck up and make something of themselvs.

note: i have never had to issue corporal punishment to my daughter as she has never given me a reason to. it is no doubt the parents sole responsability to accept the short commings of the adolecent child as they have failed the child not the other way around.

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post #19 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:31 AM
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I'll tweak this a bit w/ my own opinion...

Many are delusional with their parenting responsibility and believe that if they don't acknowledge a problem then it must not exist. "My little angle would NEVER do anything bad....how dare you suggest otherwise?!?!?!" blahblahblah

Now, as for the corrective measures... there are PLENTY of ways to obtain compliance and cooperation without physical contact. Most require pre-emptive intervention before it ever reaches that point to head it off.. And that means: More work... Many adults take the easy/lazy way out (See above about not acknowledging a problem in the first place) and only deal with things after they've ignored all the warning signs and the problem grew to a point where it smacked them in the face.
Very well stated. It is very common to see how parents are aghast at the thought that their little angel might have done something other than be perfect, but in reality, their behavior outside the home is a clear reflection of what the child is taught at home.

My first two years of elementary education were done in Mexico, where a smack on the hand with a ruler was not only allowed, but highly encouraged. Like BMONEY stated, if a child gave reason for the ruler to be used, it was not the ruler that scared them, but the consequences at home from having behaved in such a manner that made the teacher resort to such an action.

Also, it is NOT the school's job to raise children, it is their job to educate them. Manners, courtesy, and proper behavior should be taught at home and from very early on in a child's life.

I do NOT encourage corporal punishment, and have never had to use it, but I do believe parents need to take responsibility for raising their children and leave the laziness behind once they decide to procreate. It is hard work raising a child, much more so if you want to try and do it right.

My mother believes that if she sees a parent trying to be all tough in public with their child, she asserts that it should have be done at home, so that in public the child knows how to handle him/herself.

I give teachers credit for biting their lip when they hear the sassy tones, curse words and all around bad behavior and have to grin and bear it. Lord knows it is not easy!

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post #20 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:32 AM
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They need to adopt that in more states. Growing up in the Soviet Union you got hit by a long ruler if you fucked up. Then the teacher would write a note to your parents saying what you did and then you receive the belt treatment from the parents.
its 11:30 8-20-08
are you REALLY comparing us to the Soviet Union??????????????

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post #21 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:34 AM
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im down with humiliation and tough love. it teaches the weak to buck up and make something of themselvs.
For many kids, this will never work... and has the opposite effect of teaching they are worth less than spit on the floor; which then takes one further away from the goal of building them up to move forward in a positive direction.

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post #22 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:36 AM
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I'll go far as to say that 50% of you folks that say"go ahead and hit my kid at school" are the same ones that would be filing a law suit against the school or teacher or district for hitting your kid.

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post #23 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esme View Post
Also, it is NOT the school's job to raise children, it is their job to educate them. Manners, courtesy, and proper behavior should be taught at home and from very early on in a child's life.

My mother believes that if she sees a parent trying to be all tough in public with their child, she asserts that it should have be done at home, so that in public the child knows how to handle him/herself.

I give teachers credit for biting their lip when they hear the sassy tones, curse words and all around bad behavior and have to grin and bear it. Lord knows it is not easy!
+1
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post #24 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:41 AM
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its 11:30 8-20-08
are you REALLY comparing us to the Soviet Union??????????????
How's my post comparing U.S. to Soviet Union? I was saying that I don't blame those states for using the paddle. Some kids definitely need it.
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post #25 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:42 AM
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were spanked or paddled
Haha, kelly posted about spanking and paddling Noice




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post #26 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:43 AM
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For many kids, this will never work... and has the opposite effect of teaching they are worth less than spit on the floor; which then takes one further away from the goal of building them up to move forward in a positive direction.
the ones that cant find a way to cope are usually the ones that dont want to join the team. the point is it brings everyone together with a common goal (usually to stop getting hazed, or singled out) and they try harder and usually produce greater results.

i was punished (some more severe and most deffinetly not needed) as a kid and i turned ok to be a pretty decent productive citizen.

punishments i mean (only the physical are listed):
belts
open hand
closed hand
paddles w/ holes in em
kneeling on kitchen floor holding a water glass to the wall with your nose.
kneeling on the kitchen floor in the upright position for hours
handfuls of hair pulled out of my head
held at knife point
beat in my sleep till my pillow was covered in blood.

i think that rounds it out pretty well.

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post #27 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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post #28 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:50 AM
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I was paddled a lot in my younger elementary years. The pain was next to nothing, I've always had a high pain threshold but the embarrasment while getting paddled in front of the class was what makes you think twice about doing it again. Corporal punishment does not mean you're getting beat. When I was young I did not understand the things that I did now and if getting the paddle is what kept me from misbehaving then so be it. I will spank my children and I will allow whatever school they attend to do the same.
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post #29 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:53 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Naperville, Il
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Originally Posted by kblack View Post



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post #30 of 119 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 11:53 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N'ville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus_P View Post
the ones that cant find a way to cope are usually the ones that dont want to join the team. the point is it brings everyone together with a common goal (usually to stop getting hazed, or singled out) and they try harder and usually produce greater results.
Is this opinion/assumption or based on actually working w/ school kids and if the latter, what ages and what school?

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