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post #1 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Where the hell am I?

What world do I live in, what happened in this past decade?

Why is our society crumbling in every manner possible?

WHY ARE OUR TAXES ON TARGET TO GO TO PRIVATE MORTGAGE LENDERS??? ....while our schools can't even support the number of children in Chicago? While the Chicago infrastructure is such hell that we have nearly the worst conjestion in the nation? while our gas prices are over $4 a gallon, and our groceries are 30-40% more then they were last year? and while our grandparents are choosing between dinner and diabetic pharmaceuticals?

I am so frustrated.

I guess Im just angry because I can't afford that new Lexus I want, but I work two jobs - I deserve what I work for.... the greedy lenders who took unworthy risks in lending money to people who can't afford it - do not deserve a hand out.... especially from the US Tax payers.

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post #2 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:18 AM
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A young teenage girl was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat but her father was a rather staunch Republican.
One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to taxes and welfare programs. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school.
She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying.
He asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, but was very popular on campus, went to all the parties all the time. Why she often didn't show up for classes because she was hung over.
Dad then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and ask why she couldn't take 1.0 off her 4.0 and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.
The daughter angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and Mary has done nothing".
The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party".
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post #3 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:19 AM
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I agree, it is really f*cked up. But if we (the US and its citizens) let the banks fail and the economy fall then things will be a lot worse.

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post #4 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:20 AM
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post #5 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:20 AM
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I am there with you too.
Fortunately, there is some hope w/ the upcoming elections to make a difference in some of these areas, even as gradual as it will be.
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post #6 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort82 View Post
The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party".
oh yeah, republicans will save us!!! Oh wait how recent many years did they control congress and hold the presidential position? oh yeah...

Chris
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post #7 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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How so, Chris? I need someone to explain to me how there aren't other financial start ups just lined up to acquire these companies.

Think of it this way. Its a rubber band effect (everything is, even in solar science)......

The lenders stretched out their abilities and lent to people who couldnt afford. The people who couldnt afford stretched out their abilities and took out a loan.

The people who can't afford, snapped back to where they were because they couldn't pay.....

the lenders snapped back because they couldn't receive.

and bam.... everything is back where it was or should have been in the first place.

Jobs may be lost, yes.... but they were never supposed to be there in the first place.

Giving MORE money to these lenders will only stretch that rubberband further - ... they will continue to strive for profit over previous years just as every single company does because that is the purpose of business..... and the problem will continue to exist.

So what if you can't get a 5th credit card this year - you never were supposed to get two of them in the first place!

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post #8 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by catwlights View Post
How so, Chris?
Oh I'm just replying to that stupid joke, I'm not weighing in on the disasterous economy. I have no bright ideas on how to fix it, but then I'm not running for office either.

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post #9 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort82 View Post
A young teenage girl was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat but her father was a rather staunch Republican.
One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to taxes and welfare programs. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school.
She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying.
He asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, but was very popular on campus, went to all the parties all the time. Why she often didn't show up for classes because she was hung over.
Dad then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and ask why she couldn't take 1.0 off her 4.0 and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.
The daughter angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and Mary has done nothing".
The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party".
F'in awesome.

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post #10 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:35 AM
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post #11 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:35 AM
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post #12 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:39 AM
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I Want Muh Cake And I Want To Eat It Too!
i gave you rep for your joke damnit.

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post #13 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:40 AM
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post #14 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
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oh yeah, republicans will save us!!! Oh wait how recent many years did they control congress and hold the presidential position? oh yeah...


Maybe not.



But Neither will tax and spend communism.


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post #15 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Well we might as well all go work for financial lenders - that way I can use my tax money to get that Lexus I want.

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post #16 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:53 AM
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And not to spear catwlights..... but...

You want a Lexus.... and I sure you have worked hard toward that goal...

But do you really need one ?


Really, so many of us ( me too ) are guilty of spending our wealth on
baubles and niceties instead of insuring our financial security.

"I've gotta have a Lexus, a flat screen, a big house, fast bikes, cool toys"

all these things we "gotta have" have lead many of us.... with the help of
willing lenders.... to a place where we are going bankrupt and collapsing
the economy.


Part of this is a government issue..... true.

Creating an environment where it is beneficial and competitive for a
business to retain jobs in the US rather than hiring overseas.

Part of this is us..... being competitive workers from a training and pay
perspective in a world job market.


Part of this is changing our ideas about what we "need".


We need a stabilized economic future...


Each one of us needs to achieve that on our own terms without
overspending ourselves buying things we *don't* need.




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post #17 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 09:57 AM
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ya know I can see where some of you peope come from but maybe u need to see my stance in all of this...

My parents have thier own small buisness and times are tight. They employ about 12 people. My parents are keeping the company running week by week. Because of these big corporations fuckin everything up for everyone they put others in jepordy. I don't give a rats ass about dems Or republicans. I vote for who is best for the job and who can turn shit around . Since 2000 the republicans have been causing prices to rise effecting everyything and when millionares are getting into office and not changing anything for the little guys, then it's time for a change. Sorry but Obama is my better choice right now

...plus my gf was with me saying "omg slow down, slow down" and I was thinking "Lose annoying squalk box in passenger seat, afford more mods and have less weight in the car and on the back of the bike"...so i dumped her and I'm single again as usual...HERE KITTY KITTY!!!
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post #18 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 10:21 AM
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post #19 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 10:28 AM
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Cash is king.
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post #20 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 10:39 AM
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It's simple.

Rant ON:

To the Republicans, if you are an average guy or worse, poor and/or uneducated, you are an worthless welfare drain on society and should be on your own. If you are a businessman or rich, we'll help you out, because regardless of your mistakes, you rock.

In their philosophy, they do this because they believe that rich people (those worth multi-millions) and big businesses are important to the country, and the workers (and small businesses) are merely a resource to be exploited for profit (like oil, minerals, or any other resource). We are exploited for our work, and then taxed like crazy to pay for the short-sighted greedy habits and mistakes of those government and business leaders.

Off Rant

This is not conservatism, it's not Capitalism, it's Republican economic policy, first devised and put in place under Reagan. [See The Wrecking Crew by Thomas Frank http://tcfrank.com/books/the-wrecking-crew/]

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post #21 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 10:46 AM
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If my employer didn't take it out of my check, I'd quit paying social security. I'll never get any of it back.
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post #22 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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I agree with you on that. I and I am also guilty of overspending at times.... but in general, I am pretty smart with $$. But I do agree - MANY MANY people spend WAY outside of their means.

But here is "Thought for Food" (I like it reversed).... School loans. How about putting yourself into educational debt?

and rationalize it in this economy - - no degree no debt, hopefully keep your job and not have to search for a new one; or degree and debt in order to stand above the unemployment line.

---------
But as far as wants and needs - this is the USA - consumerism is the way of our culture... and unfortunately it is a way of security in your professional life....it can be argued, but I've seen it. The more toys a boy has the more friends he has.

Ill get my Lexus when my retirement money is up to its goal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
And not to spear catwlights..... but...

You want a Lexus.... and I sure you have worked hard toward that goal...

But do you really need one ?


Really, so many of us ( me too ) are guilty of spending our wealth on
baubles and niceties instead of insuring our financial security.

"I've gotta have a Lexus, a flat screen, a big house, fast bikes, cool toys"

all these things we "gotta have" have lead many of us.... with the help of
willing lenders.... to a place where we are going bankrupt and collapsing
the economy.


Part of this is a government issue..... true.

Creating an environment where it is beneficial and competitive for a
business to retain jobs in the US rather than hiring overseas.

Part of this is us..... being competitive workers from a training and pay
perspective in a world job market.


Part of this is changing our ideas about what we "need".


We need a stabilized economic future...


Each one of us needs to achieve that on our own terms without
overspending ourselves buying things we *don't* need.




Tom

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post #23 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:09 AM
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The straightest news we get now is based on satire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Colbert

I believe in the free market, except when it might hurt a corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Colbert
I believe that these guys should be able to speculate and do anything they want to make as much money as they want in any way that they want, in the good times. And then when things go bad, we should help them out, so they can do it again later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Colbert
This is from the giving and buying of bad loans. We are about to give an 85 billion dollar loan to somebody who couldn't run a business. Isn't that a risky loan for the United States?

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post #24 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:16 AM
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The straightest news we get now is based on satire.
Holy crap those are funny.

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post #25 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:21 AM
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Holy crap those are funny.
That show is hilarious. And Frustrating.

John Stewart had tony Blair on last night and was talking about the iraq war. That was pretty good too.

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post #26 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catwlights View Post

But here is "Thought for Food" (I like it reversed).... School loans. How about putting yourself into educational debt?


I would argue that spending for school is an investment for your future.

Sure, It's short-term debt but ( theoretically ) you make a bunch more
money once you graduate, pay for the education and wind up way ahead
in the long run.


I think I recently heard someone say it was 1.3 - 2.5 M difference over your lifetime.


Article - http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa072602a.htm



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post #27 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:28 AM
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If my employer didn't take it out of my check, I'd quit paying social security. I'll never get any of it back.
I'm old enough (53) that I'll see something from all the $ I've paid in. But with my "personal" retirement funds shrinking each day (IRA, 401K, savings), I sometimes wonder why I'm working so hard and doing without today to fully fund these plans. In over 35 years of work, there have been only two companies that I worked for that offered a real pension, RCA and Sony. The RCA plan went away when GE bought RCA and took the "overcapitalization" of the plan as cash out, and then decimated the plan for current employees (1987-88). The Sony plan is still there, but nowhere near as good as the old RCA plan. I've got 20 years of service between the two, made decent pay for the time I worked for each, and won't get much from the two combined - not even enough to fund the medical premiums (GE killed off the medical benefit of the RCA pension as well, and Sony didn't include medical in their plan).

And I realize that I am in a better off position than the majority of those my age, because I at least have some savings and a small pension lined up. Most have nothing lined up.

[cynically]
Maybe I'll blow it all on track days and then live under the Damen Av bridge when I get old. When I get sick, I'll let the Cook County taxpayers take care of me at Stroger.



Actually, everyone should try to figure out how to put more away for your personal future. Fund your 401K or IRA to the max you can. Start with at least enough to get the full match if your company offers one. Increase it 1-2% (or more if possible) each year until you get to the max contribution. Don't cash out unless there is no other way to pay critical bills (medical, food) as the penalty is 10% + regular taxes on what you take out. If I had put more into the 401K in my 20's, I'd be able to afford to retire at 55. Since I didn't, I'll probably have to work an extra 10 years.

There's going to be a real mess as all of us boomers get to the age where we won't be able to work, and have no savings to support ourselves with because we spent everything for current needs/wants. Around 2018-2040 or thereabouts.

Craig
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post #28 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:32 AM
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This is a good read if you are *really* interested in the impact of
education, race and sex to lifetime earnings potential.


http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynami.../p23%2D210.pdf


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post #29 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
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For $1000 I'll teach you to live comfortably on you current salary, as long as you make more than 30k a year.
does that involve recruiting people to pay you $1000.00 to consult?

<--------Sticky Nicky
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post #30 of 105 (permalink) Old 09-19-2008, 11:43 AM
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Ebb and flow...this is the way economies work. This particular period specifically related to home sales and lending is much worse than it would have been because of what was allowed to go on for far too long...giving the "American Dream" to people that couldn't afford it. It made politicians (on both sides of the aisle) look good and made many, many people very rich. As for the rest of the economy, I really think it's blown waay out of proportion by a headline savy and shock value happy media. When millions are spent on movies every week I'd say that extra cash is still around and being spent.

I'd say the single biggest contributor to a shaky market is credit debt...faaaar too much of it in today's society. Look what ultimately caused the collapse in 1929. That being said, the DOW is up over 400 today and if it stays there, we are right back at even before any of this happened this week. I'd say we are far from a kaput economy

Tom

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Originally Posted by Tacitus
In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.
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