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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Steering a bike

Okay so I know this is probably going to start a whole flame thread about different philosophies, but here goes...
I'm taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation: Basic Rider course this weekend, even though I am already endorsed, taking this class reduces my insurance, plus I'm being there for a few friends who need their endorsements.

Anyways the course book reads as follows;

Quote:
Press: To initiate motorcycle lean, press forward on the handgrip in the direction of the turn. This is referred to as countersteering (the front wheel briefly points in the opposite direction of the turn). Press left handgrip, lean left, go left. Press right handgrip, lean right, go right.
The instructor had us make the following "correction";

Quote:
Press: To initiate motorcycle lean, press forward down on the handgrip in the direction of the turn. This is referred to as countersteering (the front wheel briefly points in the opposite direction of the turn). Press left handgrip, lean left, go left. Press right handgrip, lean right, go right
Does anyone agree with this correction? On my ride home I thought about it and consciously tried to steer in the manner described in the correction, but I was met with a complete inability to put the bike into a lean by applying downward pressure to either handgrip, however, when I apply forward pressure (as I have been doing and the book originally states) everything works as expected, the bike leans, and turns...

Yes, I will be bringing this up tomorrow with the instructor, to the side of course, but I wanted to see what thoughts are here too.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:21 AM
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzB5oriblk

This video explains countersteering very well. I think the instructors either don't fully understand the physics behind the concept, or don't wish to overload some students with the info.

BTW, where are you taking the class?
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:29 AM
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MSF instructors are bound by the curriculum we are given. Take your own research and use what works for you, but we MUST portray the information as the MSF says we should.

Ride smart... stupid hurts.

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't...

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhill2073 View Post
don't wish to overload some students with the info.
BINGO!!! MSF is for beginners. Take what you know and APPLY what you learn.

Ride smart... stupid hurts.

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't...

Godspeed 788!!! We miss you!
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Right I understand you are bound by the curriculum, sooooo why alter it with something that doesn't make sense? =\ The book clearly defines countersteering, and it's beeing altered =(
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin72875 View Post
Right I understand you are bound by the curriculum, sooooo why alter it with something that doesn't make sense? =\ The book clearly defines countersteering, and it's beeing altered =(
If you ARE THINKING about it (noob), down makes sense.... If you KNOW how to ride, it doesn't. It results in the same control input. That's the best explination I can give.

Ride smart... stupid hurts.

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't. Some can't...

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 01:36 AM
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We teach push in the direction you want to go, down doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It rocks that we aren't "bound" to the msf curriculum. Theres a lot of things they teach that need an update.


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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 02:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin72875 View Post
I'm taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation: Basic Rider course this weekend, even though I am already endorsed, taking this class reduces my insurance, plus I'm being there for a few friends who need their endorsements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhill2073 View Post
BTW, where are you taking the class?
reading - try it sometime






j/k: not really trying to be a dick, but it was in his post already
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja 13 View Post
reading - try it sometime






j/k: not really trying to be a dick, but it was in his post already
that doesn't answer 'where'.

Quote:
Oh he can drive. He can drive beyond the limits of the tires, the engine, the car or anything else.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac11 View Post
that doesn't answer 'where'.
I appear to have failed

sorry rhill, maybe I should do that reading thing too
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 06:54 PM
 
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I don't know that it would be just down, most instructors I know describe it as "down and forward" on the hand grip - which is mainly due to riding posture on the motorcycle.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 07:04 PM
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down only applies if you already have the bike leaned somewhat out of vertical alignment. it should be forward as it says in the literature as is to upset the gyroscope effect
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I spoke about it individually with the instructor today and was told "Well to the novice or never been on a bike before rider, we say push down and they actually push forward and get the desired result, whereas if we say push forward they may force the handlebars all the way in the opposite direction."

*sigh* oh well, I keep getting spanked for bringing up topics for discussion that won't be on the final test, even though they apply to actually being safe while riding..

As to where, eh I'd rather not say =) the class is FANTASTIC though and I would highly recommend attending! Even though the classes are full, you can still 'walk in', you have to be there by 5pm on the Friday of class weekend. We had six walk-ins get in and still had two empty spots in our class.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2008, 10:27 PM
ummm.....yea
 
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they said the same thing in my MSF course. if i think about it, i tend to screw up on getting the bike to lean. i just look where i want to go, apply pressure, and then get the bike to lean.just kinda subconscious this by now i guess
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