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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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new ford 65 mpg

this is how your country [email protected] you in the ass
the american car that amricans can't have
and you wonder why our economy sucks and gas prices suck

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105735/The-65-mpg-Ford-the-U.S.-Can't-Have

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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:21 AM
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Ya, Ford has been making the fiesta for years all over the world.

Is this a repost?? maybe?

Supposedly they are going to start making them at the Mexico plant sometime soon.
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:27 AM
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you mean british car with a ford name

you only have so many die hard diesel fans. I only know very,very few that drive a vw rabbit. I think they are getting 40mpg or more?

the vw bug was killed because it wasn't safe to drive. I'm sure anything compact thats built in England would be unsafe in the us. Car makers have to fight the red tape from the government.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
eeee whas up doc?
 
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Quote:
Is this a repost?? maybe?
just saw it on yahoo and got pissed

Quote:
I'm sure anything compact thats built in England would be unsafe in the us
give me a freaking brake man,
americans are special or something? If any european drives one, americans won't melt in them

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:44 AM
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I kind of see Ford's philosophy on this one. I'w driven Fiesta and I don't think it or any other European car would be well received here.
Those cars can fit in a back of your minivan. Have smaller engine displacement than Bussa and produce from 50-80 HP. Whole door is an inch thick. So I don't think side impact air bags are even an option. Rear power windows are an extra option.
They are very fuel efficient and easy to park and drive around. So I think they would be useful in Chicago or similar metro areas. But try to imagine that car in Wyoming or rural Texas. Roads and travel habits in Europe are vastly different.
Just my 2cents:
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r1srb View Post
Roads and travel habits in Europe are vastly different.
Just my 2cents:
This is a very good point. You don't see them driving Ford F150s or Suburbans around Europe.
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taledarkside View Post
you only have so many die hard diesel fans. I only know very,very few that drive a vw rabbit. I think they are getting 40mpg or more?
the tdis do way better. i get 42-43 driving the hell out of my tdi. 52mpg on a straight hwy cruise.

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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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most of the mileage that peolpe make is in commute, one person in one car.
me, for example. I commute every day about 2h/day. In weekends I either take the bike out, or take my car, and drive 20-30 miles in one weekend(if there are no road trips)
so basically most of the mileage on my car is done comuting at 20mph.
I would drive a radio flyer cart with a soalr panel stuck to the top if I would be allowed. I'm stuck in traffic anyway.
keep your F350 for the countryside because it works and that's what you need for rural places.

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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan.O View Post
just saw it on yahoo and got pissed


give me a freaking brake man,
americans are special or something? If any european drives one, americans won't melt in them
Building your own car is the only way to get around it. They killed herbie in 79 because you would get killed hitting a brick wall at 60mph. Those bastards. aircooled, 2.5 quarts of oil, 30mpg min cheap to repair

Everything in england is the size of our motorcycles. If americans went from massive sized vehicles to Mr Beans car, there might be a change. Maybe Ralph Nader killed the economy car in the 70s. To dangerous to drive at any speed. It would be cool to drive mini cars but it would be more dangerous than riding motorcycles with todays drivers. my opin
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 10:58 AM
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I like my gargantuous double swingarm side mirror having, 2 head sized turbo blowing, V10 750 CI, house hauling, triple axle, 4WD, lifted 24 inches on supper knobby tires with extra large flames painted down the side pick em up. YEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAWWWWWW!
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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by suh-c View Post
I like my gargantuous double swingarm side mirror having, 2 head sized turbo blowing, V10 750 CI, house hauling, triple axle, 4WD, lifted 24 inches on supper knobby tires with extra large flames painted down the side pick em up. YEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAWWWWWW!
Now, seeing an Asian drive that would be fucking awesome.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:25 AM
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Unfortunately, I understand Ford's rational for not importing this. Americans don't like diesel in their cars and pay an extra tax premium at the pump. With GW purposefully killing the dollar, buying British made engines isn't an attractive alternative either. Spending $350,000,000 to build a US based manufacturing facility that won't be on line for years for the engine when they are bleeding $ is tough too. The car is just too expensive for what it is and Ford can't make any money off it. Americans want Hybrids and Ford is coming in a little late to this dance.

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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:25 AM
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[QUOTE=taledarkside;
the vw bug was killed because it wasn't safe to drive. .[/QUOTE]

since when

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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:26 AM
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Ford has been selling second-rate crap in the states for decades, and people here are dumb (or stubborn) enough to keep buying it.
The best Ford cars sold in the US are Mazdas.

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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:29 AM
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My '96 Hyundai I paid $800 for gets 41 mpg.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:29 AM
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there are also much more lenient standards for vehicles in countries that are NOT the United States. Its not worth a mfr to rebuild a vehicle with 5mph bumpers and door beams and 80,000 airbags in it just to sell it in the US. When you're talking about a car that would cost less than $10kUS, how much could they possibly stand to profit by bringing those here.

I wish we had them too, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. diesel is making a come back here though, and in '09 and '10, we should see some better alternatives in small economical vehicles that have more than 2 wheels.

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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort82 View Post
This is a very good point. You don't see them driving Ford F150s or Suburbans around Europe.
I see your point...
Yet we do now have the Smart...
and the Igo (pretty sure the Yaris was called the igo in europe for a while)
There are a number of others... Versa, fit, etc..

Personally I would like to see more small city cars... Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to use energy to move around 3 to 4000 lbs of mass to move around a 150-200lb person...
Not very efficient.

Although I think you're point is a legal point.. Don't they base some of the testing criteria on crash tests against the largest vehicles on the road? That might be rumor.. I never looked it up.. That said, if that is the case.. How would a hummer do against a International Harvester CXT... or do they have some formula for # or % of the type of cars out there?... Or perhaps it's just not even true..
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 11:56 AM
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man, the smart is a joke in the form we have it in. there's plenty of cars bigger than it that get better mileage. so what's the point? sure it fits into tiny parking spots, but that's not the entirety of the problem.

if we had it with the diesel engine changing nothing else about it, then it would be a good alternative.

and it is excellent for it's size in the crash tests.

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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofyl View Post
man, the smart is a joke in the form we have it in. there's plenty of cars bigger than it that get better mileage. so what's the point? sure it fits into tiny parking spots, but that's not the entirety of the problem.

if we had it with the diesel engine changing nothing else about it, then it would be a good alternative.

and it is excellent for it's size in the crash tests.
35MPG-40MPG is a joke for the Smart. You can get a Yaris which is much bigger (can seat 4 comfortably, maybe 5) and get the same fuel economy. I was expecting at least 60MPG out of the Smart car. If you are going to drive a small car that looks retarded, you might as well save money as well. I'm all for small cars with diesel engines. A while back Honda released plans to make a V6 Accord diesel which gets somewhere around 65MPG. I don't know what happened with that. I think the article said it would be released for the 09 model year, but I haven't heard anything since.

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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
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man, the smart is a joke in the form we have it in. there's plenty of cars bigger than it that get better mileage. so what's the point? sure it fits into tiny parking spots, but that's not the entirety of the problem.

if we had it with the diesel engine changing nothing else about it, then it would be a good alternative.

and it is excellent for it's size in the crash tests.

It's a start.
Rome wasn't built in a day.. and America certainly isn't going to rotate 180 degrees in one either..

and I saw the was it Top Gear or 5th Gear with the crash tests of the Smart.. THink it might have been 5th.. Into the E class and the concrete barrier... Damn.
Person would have died.. Probably.. but the car held shape.. I couldn't believe the door still opened and closed.. and in all fairness.. the person probably would have died no matter what they were in (well.. maybe not the CXT, I am not sure if it would even have slowed down from hitting that barrier)
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:05 PM
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All high mpg cars mentioned here = shitboxes.

I'll pay a little more for gas to drive a nice vehicle. Only way I would buy a small shitbox is if I had to use my personal vehicle for work.

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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentofDarkness View Post
35MPG-40MPG is a joke for the Smart. You can get a Yaris which is much bigger (can seat 4 comfortably, maybe 5) and get the same fuel economy. I was expecting at least 60MPG out of the Smart car. If you are going to drive a small car that looks retarded, you might as well save money as well. I'm all for small cars with diesel engines. A while back Honda released plans to make a V6 Accord diesel which gets somewhere around 65MPG. I don't know what happened with that. I think the article said it would be released for the 09 model year, but I haven't heard anything since.
I think they are rethinking it.. Cranking the prices of diesel up so high has eliminated a lot of it's cost savings..

Sure you get more MPG.. but a diesel engine is often a 3 to 5k option in the states.. and then the fuel costs.. 25% - 35% more or so.. That rather quickly eats up the fuel savings....

Obviously things can change...

btw.. I believe in europe at least on some models.. Diesel engines costs LESS than gas engines.. at least in some cars
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolMC View Post
All high mpg cars mentioned here = shitboxes.

I'll pay a little more for gas to drive a nice vehicle. Only way I would buy a small shitbox is if I had to use my personal vehicle for work.
Dude.
Smart cars rule.

I am not quite sure why.. They are ugly and.. akward looking.. but for some reason.. They are one of my favorite cars...


to be honest.. I honestly don't know why...
but everytime I see one of them it puts a smile on my face.. feel like one of those little kids all excited screaming "big truck! big truck"
but.. sorta the opposite

every single time I see one I feel the need to point it out to everyone else in the car... Which... Used to be pretty rare a couple years ago.. but.. now they are all over the place.. I think I might just possibly be a little annoying

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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
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I'm all for small cars with diesel engines. A while back Honda released plans to make a V6 Accord diesel which gets somewhere around 65MPG. I don't know what happened with that. I think the article said it would be released for the 09 model year, but I haven't heard anything since.

yea, problem is the US changed the diesel emission standards to become much more strict. that put a hurting on the few mfrs (VW, MB) that made anything light duty diesel for US roads. Now that they've caught up, and there's a push for higher mpg, less emissions, etc, many of those who make diesel cars elsewhere in the world are starting to realize that America is a huge market and will likely adopt the technology.

GM made a huge bad name for anything diesel in the late 70s, early 80s with their joke of a diesel v8 engine. So everyone thinks diesel is noisy, smokey and unreliable. So much has changed since then. hell, it was significantly different in the mid 90s, but no one paid any attention to what vw, mb, volvo, etc were doing. Now that there's virtually no smoke, and very little noise difference, no one is going to talk down about joe blow driving his diesel whatever.

Oh, yea, did anyone mention torque? my vw is stock at 100hp, and 177lb/ft. gotta love it.

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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:13 PM
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Lots of reasons they do not bring that here.

We have different emissions standards here. It would cost Ford a lot of money to get those engines certified here. VW delayed their newest TDI for over a year to just be able to meet the latest. So you know this is not an easy technical hurdle. VW has history with diesels in the US, so they have enough fans to sell enough cars to justify the cost. With all the America bashing we love to do to ourselves, if Ford did bring that here, you would still have every "internet expert" exclaiming that it is still a crappy Ford and tha Ford is not known for Diesels.

It is small. Despite everyone "saying" they would like a small car. When push comes to shove they would actually still rather have a larger car and buy accordingly. Would you want to shove child seats in that? How would you take ski trip with some friends, where would you put all the gear?

I am sure it has some pep, but it likely it pretty slow in acceleration up to freeway speeds. People have gotten used to most cars being pretty powerful. Would 13+ second 0-60 really be acceptable to most people that claim they would buy this?

Cost. It is a nice car. And it is likely priced accordingly. I bet if they went through the exerciese of bringing that car here. It could cost as much as $20-25,000 or more. Just like VW TDI's. This would not be a $15,000 economy car. Would anyone really pay $25,000+ for that car? Plus most of the public has decided that hybrid is the answer (regardless of whether that is right). Ford would likely do better getting more Hybrids out than diesels, especially since Diesel fuel is still sort of pricey.

I do not think this is a conspiracy IMO. Ford would love to sell you this car. The cold truth is that you, I, and most every other American would not stomach the cost for these great European Ford cars if they were actually brought here "as is". We are used to, and demand, cheap. You get what you pay for. If we want better cars, we must be prepared to pay for them. We are very brand oriented and only pay premiums for brands we perceive as premium. Most do not perceive Ford as premium, despite their ability to make a more than worthy machine to justify a premium.

This is not to say Ford does have not good current cars. The Taurus is a very comfortable and roomy car that I think got very good safety ratings. The Fusion looks very sharp and is only one of a few to offer AWD. The Focus, despite being on an older chassis, is still a good car. For example, it has an independent rear suspension for superior handling while Toyota uses a cheap torsion beam rear axle on the Corolla. Focus has Sync which is awfully nice. It is still comfortable and quiet. I agree the current Euro Focus/Mazda 3 is nicer, but it also costs more. I bet a comparably equipped Mazda3 is more expensive than a similar Focus. Focus is a nice option if you want somethng more affordable.

Thats just my 2 cents, and I am sure it is not worth 1 cent I agree though, I do wish conditoins were right that Ford could bring that here. It would be great if people would happily pay a premium for a great Ford the same way they are willing to pay a premium for a VW, Acura, or BMW.

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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:13 PM
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:15 PM
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..

btw.. I believe in europe at least on some models.. Diesel engines costs LESS than gas engines.. at least in some cars
I think in Europe all the small cars have a diesel option. My buddy has a Yaris, I've ridden in it many times. Its small but 4 people fit in there fine. I think we've had 6 guys in there before and we aren't a bunch of tooth picks either. Its pretty cheap as well (<$15K I think) as well as good fuel economy. I don't think all the econoboxes are bad cars.

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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:29 PM
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Sportbike: 2003 Aprilia Mille R Colin Edwards / 01-02 Ninj ZX6r Tracktoy / 2003 SV650
Years Riding: 12
How you found us: some guy at the IBM credit union told me about it
           
Would have been nice to see this
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008...wagen_to_i.php
Hybrid Diesel.. 70mpg...
but it was killed off as to expensive
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 12,529
Location: Chicago
Sportbike: 2003 Aprilia Mille R Colin Edwards / 01-02 Ninj ZX6r Tracktoy / 2003 SV650
Years Riding: 12
How you found us: some guy at the IBM credit union told me about it
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolMC View Post
All high mpg cars mentioned here = shitboxes.

I'll pay a little more for gas to drive a nice vehicle. Only way I would buy a small shitbox is if I had to use my personal vehicle for work.
Tell me you wouldn't want to buy a bunch of Toyota Yaris's (is there a plural for multiple Yaris?) and do this!?

Quote:
I have seen this a 100x and still laugh every time I see it...

Let's see you do that in a lumina or a taurus


oh and I guess I spelled Aygo wrong ... oh well
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 12:43 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Glendale Heights
Posts: 10,209
Location: Glendale Heights
Sportbike: 'Fightered F3
Years Riding: 3 years
How you found us: I woke up here.
           
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofyl View Post
man, the smart is a joke in the form we have it in. there's plenty of cars bigger than it that get better mileage. so what's the point? sure it fits into tiny parking spots, but that's not the entirety of the problem.

if we had it with the diesel engine changing nothing else about it, then it would be a good alternative.

and it is excellent for it's size in the crash tests.
IMO, you're missing a very important point about the Smart car. To me, it seems like the designers wanted to design a small, cheap car. I'm guessing size was more important to them than MPG and primarily designed it to be used in Europe and not the US. So for what it was designed for, it seems like it does it great.

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Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
Noodles accepts no liability for the content of this post, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. Any views or opinions presented in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Noodles.
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