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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Any fluid power engineers here?

I could really use some help with a project for class.

I have to build a 2 hand no tie down circuit to control a push cylinder. my teacher has a great sence of humor and gives use the equipment we can use. Of course theres no "and" Valve.

anyone here want to take a crack at it? I'm friggin stumped at this point.




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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:54 PM
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:54 PM
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 10:56 PM
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Excuse my ignorance but... What is a fluid power engineer? What do they do? Are they people who design hydraulic systems?

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Excuse my ignorance but... What is a fluid power engineer? What do they do? Are they people who design hydraulic systems?

+1 Design comodes, maybe? That's fluid power isn't it?

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 11:09 PM
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I put a pencil to paper..but I dont think it will work yet
I'll keep working on it

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Excuse my ignorance but... What is a fluid power engineer? What do they do? Are they people who design hydraulic systems?
Hydraulics and pneumatics, this circuit happens to be pneumatic.




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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-30-2008, 11:22 PM
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:26 AM
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this thing?
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:47 AM
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Excuse my ignorance but... What is a fluid power engineer? What do they do? Are they people who design hydraulic systems?
They get to use one of my FAVORITE words of all time: CAVITATION.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 09:06 AM
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You say that you are given the equipment to use. What components do you have available? Sometimes that will restrict your control options.

Can you explain "no tie down" to me? I'm not familiar with that terminology.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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it's a safety circuit. The idea being if the operators hands are on the buttons, they aren't in the machine. even if one of them is tied down with tape rtc, the system wont work, they have to be hit simultaneously.




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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taledarkside View Post


this thing?
Close, cant use an "and" valve though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave13 View Post
My brother is one. I called him, he said to learn it yourself, he did.

He is some high up fella at Cat.
Right, tell him thats for the "giving back"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ill_ag View Post
They get to use one of my FAVORITE words of all time: CAVITATION.
I'll give you Cavitation




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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 10:07 AM
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Dude, run a hose from the pump, to a valve, then to another valve then to the cylinder then back. If the first valve is closed nothhing will get to the second. If the second valve is closed, nothing will get past it from the first valve.

Cant get any more simple than that.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqrly View Post
Dude, run a hose from the pump, to a valve, then to another valve then to the cylinder then back. If the first valve is closed nothhing will get to the second. If the second valve is closed, nothing will get past it from the first valve.

Cant get any more simple than that.
Ahh but if you wrap a zip tie around one, then the other one can still operate the circuit. hence the no tie down feature.




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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
Ahh but if you wrap a zip tie around one, then the other one can still operate the circuit. hence the no tie down feature.
Round knobs on a rotery valve with an enclosed coiled return spring.

Stop thinking like an enginer.

Any safety arangement can be bypassed by a 6yr old.

And I dont want to hear about a pipe wrench acting as a counterweight!!!

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 10:26 AM
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Ok, I reread the parameters.

Single plunger valve in the center. Two push button plungers, one on each side. A simple bar connected to the center valve like a teeter-totter. The entire contraption is in a long rectangular box to prevent tampering.

If both buttons are pressed, they would both act upon the bar equally, if one is pressed (or tied down), when the other button is pushed, it would rock the bar but not actuate the valve.

There, now you figure out how to do it electrically.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taledarkside View Post


this thing?
This would work without an AND gate. Can you have more than one port on your PBs?
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:34 PM
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Isn't there a way to make an "and" gate using a few or/not gates? I don't remember much about that from school, but I thought that was possible.

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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatFitz9 View Post
Isn't there a way to make an "and" gate using a few or/not gates? I don't remember much about that from school, but I thought that was possible.
See the website below for how to make an AND using a combination of NOR (OR + NOT)


http://www.sciencelobby.com/combinat...using-nor.html

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In motorcycle terms, that's like taking your Ducati to a dealer for service, and they hand you back a 1979 backfiring Honda 400 Hawk.. because after all, a bike is a bike.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:25 PM
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hire two illegal immigrants to hold down the buttons for your and you can have 2 free hands to work.

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyHand View Post
hire two illegal immigrants to hold down the buttons for your and you can have 2 free hands to work.
Short the wires for the buttons. Much cheaper than hiring people to hold the buttons.

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In motorcycle terms, that's like taking your Ducati to a dealer for service, and they hand you back a 1979 backfiring Honda 400 Hawk.. because after all, a bike is a bike.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentofDarkness View Post
See the website below for how to make an AND using a combination of NOR (OR + NOT)


http://www.sciencelobby.com/combinat...using-nor.html
That's the answer. Use a NOR gate with an inverter on the input for each PB to replace the AND gate.

Truth table:

INPUT
A B OUTPUT
0 0 1
0 1 0
1 0 0
1 1 0
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 10-31-2008, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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I left my materials list at home.

but the gist of what i have available is
  • 2- NC 2 ways 2 ports
  • 4- 3W 3P open or closed
  • 1- 4 way 5 port/ 5 way
  • 1- R401 combo valve
  • 3- screw on pilots
  • 1- regulator
  • 1- gauge
  • 4- 2 port flow controls
  • 1- regulator
  • 2- check valves
  • 2- shuttle valves
  • Tons of tee's and hoses
  • 60 psi of air

and one spring return push type cylinder




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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 11:02 AM
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I'm out... this is beyond me. The whole "two hand control" strategy is just OSHA's way of circumventing Darwinism.

Now, if you give me a PLC with I/O, then I could help you out

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stkr View Post
I'm out... this is beyond me. The whole "two hand control" strategy is just OSHA's way of circumventing Darwinism.

Now, if you give me a PLC with I/O, then I could help you out
Cool, cause thats the other class I'm taking.




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Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

- Ronald Reagan

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:30 PM
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WTF this is a Motorcycle forum.

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