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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Why is this still an argument?

I'm really surprised at the number of people who still believe in Creationism.

from Yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20...latchy/3153454

Evolution war still rages 200 years after Darwin's birth

Play Video Video: State Board of Education to decide on evolution teachings KVUE-TV Austin WASHINGTON — Two centuries after Charles Darwin's birth on Feb. 12, 1809 , people still argue passionately about his theory of evolution.

Was Darwin right? Should schoolchildren be exposed to contrary views in science class? These two controversies continue to rage, partly because both sides are evenly matched.

Most scientists and courts that have ruled on the matter say that overwhelming evidence backs Darwin's explanation of the origin and evolution of species, including humans, by natural selection.

Many people, especially religious and social conservatives, strongly disagree.

Among them are ``creationists,'' who take literally the Genesis story that God created the world and mankind in six days no more than 10,000 years ago. Others support ``intelligent design,'' the idea that life is too complex to have arisen without a supernatural ``designer," presumably God.

Public opinion surveys consistently have shown that Americans are deeply divided over evolution. The most recent Gallup poll on the issue, in June 2007 , found that 49 percent of those surveyed said they believed in evolution and 48 percent said they didn't. Those percentages have stayed almost even for at least 25 years.

Gallup found a political angle to the split. Two-thirds of Republicans rejected Darwin's theory, while majorities of Democrats and political independents accepted it.

A Harris poll published last December found that more people believe in a devil, hell and angels than in evolution.

The controversy is most acute in the public schools, where conservatives want evolution banished from science classes or at least described as ``a theory, not a fact.''

Darwin's supporters counter that to scientists a theory isn't just a guess or a hypothesis but a widely accepted explanation of natural events supported by the best available evidence.

At a hearing last week before Texas' State Board of Education , scientists and social conservatives exchanged fiery arguments over a rule that requires science textbooks to cover ``the strengths and weaknesses'' of evolutionary theory.

Darwin critics control seven of the 15 seats on the board and have the support of Republican Gov. Rick Perry . The chairman of the board, Don McLeroy , a dentist, is a creationist who believes that the Earth is only thousands of years old, not billions as most scientists think. The board will decide the issue in March.

Louisiana's State Board of Elementary and Secondary Education adopted guidelines Jan. 15 that allow teachers to use ``supplemental materials'' that aren't in regular textbooks about ``controversial'' subjects such as evolution and global warming.

Louisiana's new rules ``ensure the state's teachers their right to teach the scientific evidence both for and against Darwinian evolution,'' according to the Discovery Institute , the headquarters of the intelligent design movement in Seattle .

``We fully expect to see the Discovery Institute's book, `Explore Evolution,' popping up in school districts across the state,'' Barbara Forrest , a Darwin supporter in Hammond, La. , told Science magazine .

The Louisiana school board also eliminated language that had banned the teaching of creationism or intelligent design, saying that the ban is unnecessary.

``The creationists got what they wanted,'' said Patsye Peebles , a retired Louisiana science teacher.

The opposition to the Discovery Institute is led by the National Center for Science Education , a pro-Darwin research center based in Oakland, Calif.

The center contends that intelligent design is a subtle way to introduce religion into science education, which the courts consistently have declared unconstitutional.

``The phrase `strengths and weaknesses' has been spread nationally as a slogan to bring creationism in through the back door,'' center executive director Eugenie Scott told the Texas school board.

Similar proposals are pending or expected in Alabama , Arkansas , Florida , Georgia , Michigan , Missouri , Oklahoma and South Carolina , according to Glenn Branch, the deputy director of the National Center for Science Education .

``In a typical year, NCSE will be monitoring about 80 episodes of creationist activity in the United States and abroad,'' Branch said.

``This issue isn't going away,'' John West , a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute , wrote in an e-mail to his allies last May. ``Although Darwinists are doing their best to shut down and intimidate anyone who raises questions about neo-Darwinism, we still have free speech, and they can't prevent people from hearing about the debate in the public arena, no matter how hard they try.''

The theory of evolution itself is evolving. Since Darwin's day, researchers have acquired powerful tools that revealed DNA's role in passing inheritance from generation to generation, something Darwin knew nothing about.

Around the middle of the 20th century, this led to the ``Modern Synthesis,'' a major updating of evolutionary theory to accommodate new information. Many biologists are suggesting still another revision, which some call ``Modern Synthesis 2.0.''

For example, Darwin described evolution as the growth of a tree, the ``Tree of Life. '' The tree began with a single, original organism at the root, with myriad species branching off from the trunk.

Biologists increasingly say that evolution resembles a web or a bush rather than a tree. Microbes constantly swap DNA. Hybrid plants and animals cross species lines, blurring sharp lines between species.

``We understand evolution pretty well,'' said W. Ford Doolittle , a Darwin supporter and biologist at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia . ``It's just that it's more complex than Darwin imagined.''

Russ
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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 02:58 PM
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and they are surprised you still believe we evolved from a single celled organism. Both sound just as crazy but only one answers how that organism got there to begin with




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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:01 PM
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Great argument ..... science -vs- faith.

Neither will ever see the others side.



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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bluebusa07 View Post
and they are surprised you still believe we evolved from a single celled organism. Both sound just as crazy but only one answers how that organism got there to begin with
I wouldn't quite use the term "answers."

It should be "but only one makes some shit up about how that organism got there to begin with."


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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:30 PM
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i've always thought of it as 'Higher being built the clock and wound it up', and let it's own laws of science take its course, knowing eventually what would/wouldn't be created and happen.

kind of like myst, in the fact that the universe being 'created/built' has to be stable, and follow its own laws of reality so to speak, or else you'd have some error in the 'coding'

makes sense to me, at least...personally, i don't think anything about the creation of the universe, let alone what went on before the 'big bang' will ever be proven, just speculations and theories..

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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:33 PM
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Both require faith as neither have the definite answer. Me personally I really don't care right now, I got enough problems dealing with tomorrow, to worry about yesterday




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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 03:43 PM
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the only thing worse than someone who is a bible thumper is a person who wants to tell everybody there is no God.

the person who tells me there is no God is just as annoying as any jehovah's witness ringing my doorbell.
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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:04 PM
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and they are surprised you still believe we evolved from a single celled organism. Both sound just as crazy but only one answers how that organism got there to begin with
I accept that both are wrong and no one will ever know conclusively.

Everyone Exaggerates

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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:06 PM
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Both require faith as neither have the definite answer. Me personally I really don't care right now, I got enough problems dealing with tomorrow, to worry about yesterday
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the only thing worse than someone who is a bible thumper is a person who wants to tell everybody there is no God.

the person who tells me there is no God is just as annoying as any jehovah's witness ringing my doorbell.
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I accept that both are wrong and no one will ever know conclusively.

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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:14 PM
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A direct answer is the singal cell could have not deveoped on its own. the the math involved is completely impossible. To have the amino acids and protiens arranged perfectly at just the right time.

Most do belive( Albert Einstien also) that Modern Homo sapien could not nor would
not evlove bt mere chance alone.

The great Darwinist are nuts i.e. Hitler.

And they say Religion starts wars.

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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:16 PM
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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:16 PM
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Great argument ..... science -vs- faith.

Neither will ever see the others side.


why does it have to be an argument? My faith, at least, leaves the door open for science. God created the heavens and the earth, no where in the bible does it say how.

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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:22 PM
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:24 PM
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Another good point of bible facts, how are people without the understanding of tiolet paper supposed to translate something so complex.

Watch Ben Steins Expelled its a good watch.........You won't think the church crowd are the crazies anymore.

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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 04:39 PM
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Another good point of bible facts, how are people without the understanding of tiolet paper supposed to translate something so complex.

Watch Ben Steins Expelled its a good watch.........You won't think the church crowd are the crazies anymore.
Hope you have some free time:

https://www.chicagolandsportbikes.com...light=religion

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post #16 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:07 AM
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Religion is a different topic than I.D. vs. Darwinism( a religion none the less)

Darwinism needs a beleif system because there is no explanation of how life begins or why an orginism evolves in a given direction. It just does.It just happens. Thats not acceptable from a sceintific stand point.

A darwin professor said life began from an alien( science) from another dawin evoled speices.......the question is not answered how did life begin there? "perhaps on the backs of crystals (science?????) WTF these are unacceptable answer on the begining of life.

If you are a darwinist you have to get people like Hitler and, Margret Sanger you can look her on wiki but it doesn't tell the wole story. Both were heavy in eugenics and wanted to help jump start eveloution. One did it with war ,while the the other did it with castration, and sterlization.

Her work is still on the the go helping underprivlidged people (in her opinion) the ones that don't have the right to procreate becuase the don't further the human being. Her foundation these day is called Planed Parenthood

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post #17 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:24 AM
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Religion is a different topic than I.D. vs. Darwinism( a religion none the less)

Darwinism needs a beleif system because there is no explanation of how life begins or why an orginism evolves in a given direction. It just does.It just happens. Thats not acceptable from a sceintific stand point.

A darwin professor said life began from an alien( science) from another dawin evoled speices.......the question is not answered how did life begin there? "perhaps on the backs of crystals (science?????) WTF these are unacceptable answer on the begining of life.

If you are a darwinist you have to get people like Hitler and, Margret Sanger you can look her on wiki but it doesn't tell the wole story. Both were heavy in eugenics and wanted to help jump start eveloution. One did it with war ,while the the other did it with castration, and sterlization.

Her work is still on the the go helping underprivlidged people (in her opinion) the ones that don't have the right to procreate becuase the don't further the human being. Her foundation these day is called Planed Parenthood
How many of these people are dragged into there against their will by Planned Parenthood employees?

The comparison with Hitler was a bit of a sensational stretch unless you can demonstrate where the organization rounded people up out of their homes and marched them down to the 'processing center' under the barrel of a gun.

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post #18 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:51 AM
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Read the post again. Don,t put words in my mouth please. No forces anyone to play lotto I still view it as tax forthe poor.

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post #19 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:56 AM
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post #20 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:57 AM
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Read the post again. Don,t put words in my mouth please. No forces anyone to play lotto I still view it as tax forthe poor.
One doesn't put the two together without trying to make some sort of comparison.... One forced their desire upon the people. The other, people simply choose to partake or not. HUGE difference.

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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 07:59 AM
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Margaret Higgins Sanger


Margaret Sanger
Born September 14, 1879(1879-09-14)
Corning, New York,
United States
Died September 6, 1966 (aged 86)
Tucson, Arizona
United States
Margaret Higgins Sanger (September 14, 1879 – September 6, 1966) was an American birth control activist, an advocate of negative eugenics, and the founder of the American Birth Control League (which eventually became Planned Parenthood). Initially met with fierce opposition to her ideas, Sanger gradually won some support, both in the public as well as in the courts, for a woman's choice to decide how and when, if ever, she will bear children. In her drive to open the way to universal access to birth control, Sanger was a controversial figure. However, her advocacy for eugenics has tarnished her reputation. A residential building is named after her on the Stony Brook University campus.

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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:00 AM
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Did want the pic of her meeting with the KKK?

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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:03 AM
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The point is shes a darwinist whacko, And thats where Planned parenthood came from.

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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:36 AM
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The point is shes a darwinist whacko, And thats where Planned parenthood came from.
No argument on her being a darwinist.. but comparing her to Hitler (even by just putting them in the same sentence; the connection is well implied and we both know it), who FORCED his will upon people who did not choose it was the far sensationalism stretch I was pointing out.

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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:55 AM
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Religion is a different topic than I.D. vs. Darwinism( a religion none the less)

Darwinism needs a beleif system because there is no explanation of how life begins or why an orginism evolves in a given direction. It just does.It just happens. Thats not acceptable from a sceintific stand point.

A darwin professor said life began from an alien( science) from another dawin evoled speices.......the question is not answered how did life begin there? "perhaps on the backs of crystals (science?????) WTF these are unacceptable answer on the begining of life.

If you are a darwinist you have to get people like Hitler and, Margret Sanger you can look her on wiki but it doesn't tell the wole story. Both were heavy in eugenics and wanted to help jump start eveloution. One did it with war ,while the the other did it with castration, and sterlization.

Her work is still on the the go helping underprivlidged people (in her opinion) the ones that don't have the right to procreate becuase the don't further the human being. Her foundation these day is called Planed Parenthood



Making the leap from Scientific Theory ( Darwinism ) to the *application*
of it by warped people like Hitler and Sanger is an illogical leap for this discussion.

Any science if mis-applied by stupid people can produce bad results.


This applies to religious doctrine as well...

What if we hold religion responsible for atrocities committed in the name of religion ?
The list would be very, very long and added to daily.



So let's stay on track eh ?



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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 09:02 AM
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For anyone who believes there is a debate here.

^ Sounds as realistic as any other religion.
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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 09:06 AM
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Religion is a different topic than I.D. vs. Darwinism( a religion none the less)

Darwinism needs a beleif system because there is no explanation of how life begins or why an orginism evolves in a given direction. It just does.It just happens. Thats not acceptable from a sceintific stand point.

A darwin professor said life began from an alien( science) from another dawin evoled speices.......the question is not answered how did life begin there? "perhaps on the backs of crystals (science?????) WTF these are unacceptable answer on the begining of life.

If you are a darwinist you have to get people like Hitler and, Margret Sanger you can look her on wiki but it doesn't tell the wole story. Both were heavy in eugenics and wanted to help jump start eveloution. One did it with war ,while the the other did it with castration, and sterlization.

Her work is still on the the go helping underprivlidged people (in her opinion) the ones that don't have the right to procreate becuase the don't further the human being. Her foundation these day is called Planed Parenthood
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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 10:42 AM
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Sportbike: 2001 Honda F4i track bike, 2007 Harley VRSCDX
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How you found us: Evil monkey made me do it!
           
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Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
For anyone who believes there is a debate here.

^ Sounds as realistic as any other religion.
YES! Church of the flying spaghetti monster! "And they warmed up his left overs from the refrigerator, and it was good."

An Angel who did not so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

Dave
NESBA #3.14159 1/4
2001 Honda F4i


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Originally Posted by Chicago Performance View Post

Man that dude has a nice rack though....
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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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I demand the doctrine of the flying spaghetti monster be taught along side everything else.

Chris
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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 11:00 AM
he who is absent foreskin
 
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northshore - Deerfield
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Location: Northshore - Deerfield
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Quote:
If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

- Bertrand Russell (1872–1970)
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