Anybody serve as a military officer? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Anybody serve as a military officer?

I'm considering the Navy at this point, but it feels like I'm being pressed into making a decision way soon. Is it true that selections only occur once a year? Anyone got any advice one way or the other?
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 06:39 PM
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OCS is different for all branches so it may only occur once a year. But I have been out for a while.

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 06:47 PM
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Im in a commissioning program now, what questions do you have? Feel free to pm me if you like




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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:06 PM
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we have another CLSB member who is out in training right now for the navy, i sent her the link to this thread

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 10:13 PM
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I have an EXCELLENT power point about OCS options for the Air Force reservists. Even if this isn't the way you're going, it will help you think about questions to ask, etc.

OC qualifications vary per branch and per job field. You need to be very informed BEFORE you go see a recruiter. Recruiters will not tell you the entire truth; they will tell you what you want to hear. I'm not saying they're all evil, it's just that their JOB is to convince you to sign up, whereas your job is to evaluate your options.

I have several friends who are enlisted officers in both Army and AF, both as active duty and as reservists. I've been asking questions myself, as I'm considering attending OCS, and I've found out a lot in the past few weeks I can share with you.

If you want the powerpoint, PM me tomorrow and I will email it.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 12:57 AM
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heard recruiters will screw you, and to make sure you get it in writing.

doesn't the navy have ROTC? that way you can go to school and do ROTC and come out as an officer.

remember, i think you got till 28-30ish then your too old. unless navy is a lot more strict
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 01:03 AM
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Brother in Law is currently a Commander in the Navy. Academy path.

Is this kind of what you are searching for?

http://www.military.com/MilitaryCare...fficer,00.html

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navyp...fficerprom.htm

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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 02:03 AM
 
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the officers that will be there when and if they declare martial law? I would like to be those police officers.. what are they called?? and how soon can I get all that done? thats something i've been trying to find out
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 02:34 AM
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doesn't the navy have ROTC? that way you can go to school and do ROTC and come out as an officer.

remember, i think you got till 28-30ish then your too old. unless navy is a lot more strict
You can do army or AF OCS straight out of college without ROTC, but you need a bachelor's degree (and I'm almost certain only certain science/technical majors count, but I could be wrong there...)
Navy OCS doesn't require a bachelors for certain ratings/"job fields." I know diddly about marines. All I know about coast guard is theirs is supposedly the hardest and longest OCS (after that, it's army pilots, army intel officers, then AF and/or navy pilots, in that order).

If you haven't gone to college yet (or are still in with time left), a ROTC or Corps of Cadets program (like at Texas A&M or VMI) is your best bet to fast track to OCS AND help you be successful there by getting you used to a lot of procedure, terminology, and leadership styles.

Age max in Army and AF is 35. For those older than 35, they can apply for and obtain special permission to attend OCS.

Keep in mind, this is info I've gotten recently from asking these same questions. I work for a military contractor and have asked these questions to several colleagues and their spouses-- from retired mil to active duty to reservists-- in all branches. My response here reflects the majority opinion from what I've gathered, but we have several active duty clsb members who I'm sure will shed additional (and better!) light on this subject. In other words, don't take my word for it-- stick your head up the bull's ass yourself.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 02:50 AM
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the officers that will be there when and if they declare martial law? I would like to be those police officers.. what are they called?? and how soon can I get all that done? thats something i've been trying to find out
The top brass would recuse themselves at best if such a thing were to transpire, meaning the order in the chain of command would remain true to those underneath.

take it for what it is.

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 09:05 AM
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IF you want to go to Army OCS, you need a college degree. It doesn't matter which one. If you go to the National Guard or Army Reserves, you only need 60 college to begin the program, you need to get your degree within a certain time limit. I think 2years. Army and Marine OCS would probably be the hardest.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 10:06 AM
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IF you want to go to Army OCS, you need a college degree. It doesn't matter which one. If you go to the National Guard or Army Reserves, you only need 60 college to begin the program, you need to get your degree within a certain time limit. I think 2years. Army and Marine OCS would probably be the hardest.
Another thing to consider-- if you are Army, you will most likely deploy after you complete your program. AF less likely, and then Navy and Marines I don't know much about.
Army, however, (and someone correct me if this is wrong but it's what I've been told...) will deploy units. That is, if you go somewhere, you will go with a unit that you've been working with for a long enough time that you are comfortable leading them and you know the people.
AF, conversely, can deploy individuals.
So, for example, the Army might say "x unit deploys to Afghanistan on 16 March" but the AF might say "John Simth deploys to Germany on 16 March."

That's not an unqualified statement, of course-- I'm sure both branches have cases where they fall out of that, but my understanding is the Army typically won't do that and the AF will engage in it more often.
Some people prefer one over the other....so it's something to think about.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 10:09 AM
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the officers that will be there when and if they declare martial law? I would like to be those police officers.. what are they called?? and how soon can I get all that done? thats something i've been trying to find out

you need to identify a military career path that interests you, and is one that you can proudly serve your country doing. Don't choose one based on a bizarre "what if" scenario. In the military, you will be trained to respond to a variety of events-- being in one career path over another is necessarily going to save you in the case of certain doom-- being a well trained patriot might, though
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 10:14 AM
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I have several friends who are enlisted officers in both Army and AF, both as active duty and as reservists. I've been asking questions myself, as I'm considering attending OCS, and I've found out a lot in the past few weeks I can share with you.
This made me giggle

Back to the scheduled program...
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 11:05 AM
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IF you want to go to Army OCS, you need a college degree. It doesn't matter which one. If you go to the National Guard or Army Reserves, you only need 60 college to begin the program, you need to get your degree within a certain time limit. I think 2years. Army and Marine OCS would probably be the hardest.
I followed the NG path. The cool part about the Army is you have the Warrant Officer program. Basically you can specialize in a field without having the responsibility of direct personnel supervision. I was enlisted and worked my way, while I was in school, to the WOCS program. I had my date for WOCS and a preliminary date for flight school. The rub for me was my commander wanted a 12 year commitment after I completed all my training. Six to become fully mission qualified and six to pay back the state. I ended up having a better offer on the civvy side so I back out, finished my enlistment and moved on. Good luck to whatever you choose to do. Military service is a great option and I wish more people would choose it.

Edit: I should also mention this was in 1994. I enlisted in 1991. I'm sure things have changed in 15 years (fuck I'm old...)

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 11:24 AM
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This made me giggle

Back to the scheduled program...
oh whatever I was typing fast on my blackberry.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 02:29 PM
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I followed the NG path. The cool part about the Army is you have the Warrant Officer program. Basically you can specialize in a field without having the responsibility of direct personnel supervision. I was enlisted and worked my way, while I was in school, to the WOCS program. I had my date for WOCS and a preliminary date for flight school. The rub for me was my commander wanted a 12 year commitment after I completed all my training. Six to become fully mission qualified and six to pay back the state. I ended up having a better offer on the civvy side so I back out, finished my enlistment and moved on. Good luck to whatever you choose to do. Military service is a great option and I wish more people would choose it.

Edit: I should also mention this was in 1994. I enlisted in 1991. I'm sure things have changed in 15 years (fuck I'm old...)
I started WOFT in 2000 and the mandatory commitment was 6 years after you get your wings.

I like being a civvy better, too.


Army OCS is at Ft. Benning, where I went to PLDC. They had to march everywhere with someone beating a big bass drum. It was pretty damn funny.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 02:43 PM
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I started WOFT in 2000 and the mandatory commitment was 6 years after you get your wings.

I like being a civvy better, too.


Army OCS is at Ft. Benning, where I went to PLDC. They had to march everywhere with someone beating a big bass drum. It was pretty damn funny.
Was that regular Army? Mine was with the Wisconsin ARNG. I think that may have been a state requirement. We only had two aviation units at the time. I was at West Bend in the 832nd Air Ambulance. I think our budgets were so small at the time that they needed that sort of commitment. I forgot what they told us it would cost the state to get us fully mission qualified. I still think about what my life would have been like if I had choose to go through with it. I just didn't see a lot of job opportunity/stability in the civilian helicopter aviation market locally in Wisconsin.
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 03:22 PM
 
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I'm currently in Army ROTC, if you have any questions PM me. If you don't have any college coursework completed or have plans for it you won't be eligible to become an officer. Officers lead. Leaders are educated.

I don't pay a dime for college. ROTC pays for tuition, books, my apartment + utilities, and even gives you a monthly stipend depending on your MS (military science) level. It's a huge commitment though, I plan to serve for 6 years after I graduate college hopefully branching infantry. I'll be damn near 30 years old by the time I'll be able to enjoy a normal civilian lifestyle. I wouldn't have it any other way though. Army HOOAH.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 04:21 PM
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I'm currently in Army ROTC, if you have any questions PM me. If you don't have any college coursework completed or have plans for it you won't be eligible to become an officer. Officers lead. Leaders are educated.

I don't pay a dime for college. ROTC pays for tuition, books, my apartment + utilities, and even gives you a monthly stipend depending on your MS (military science) level. It's a huge commitment though, I plan to serve for 6 years after I graduate college hopefully branching infantry. I'll be damn near 30 years old by the time I'll be able to enjoy a normal civilian lifestyle. I wouldn't have it any other way though. Army HOOAH.
Is the the stuff they teach over on the Army side of ROTC at UIC?!?!
Lmao, but good for you for committing to the program. I have been an enlisted Leader of Marines for nearly a decade with my only education being on the job leadership training. I now attend UIC as well as one of the Active duty members of ROTC for the Navy/Marine Corps team out of IIT. I commission next spring and while I believe the education I have received in college has been valuable, I do not agree the degree creates a leader. Experience, common sense, and honor do. None of which however can be found on a class schedule.




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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 04:28 PM
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Is the the stuff they teach over on the Army side of ROTC at UIC?!?!
Lmao, but good for you for committing to the program. I have been an enlisted Leader of Marines for nearly a decade with my only education being on the job leadership training. I now attend UIC as well as one of the Active duty members of ROTC for the Navy/Marine Corps team out of IIT. I commission next spring and while I believe the education I have received in college has been valuable, I do not agree the degree creates a leader. Experience, common sense, and honor do. None of which however can be found on a class schedule.
So what you are saying is that if you sit through 4 years of classes, that doesn't make you a leader. I have heard stories about kids like that.

Respect to all those who serve. Thank you!
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 04:30 PM
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So what you are saying is that if you sit through 4 years of classes, that doesn't make you a leader. I have heard stories about kids like that.

Respect to all those who serve. Thank you!
yes, this is exactly what im saying. That style of attitude will make an officer fall on their face because they will not trust their sncos




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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
 
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Is the the stuff they teach over on the Army side of ROTC at UIC?!?!
Lmao, but good for you for committing to the program. I have been an enlisted Leader of Marines for nearly a decade with my only education being on the job leadership training. I now attend UIC as well as one of the Active duty members of ROTC for the Navy/Marine Corps team out of IIT. I commission next spring and while I believe the education I have received in college has been valuable, I do not agree the degree creates a leader. Experience, common sense, and honor do. None of which however can be found on a class schedule.

I guess I said that wrong, I wasn't trying to say being a stellar student will make you a good leader because it's not true at all. Education is so much more than coursework. What I'm saying is there's a reason you're required a "higher education" to be eligible to partake in an officer producing program. If you don't know how to lead, people are going to die. Hopefully one day if and when I pass LDAC I'll be on my way to earning a commission. Congrats on your *almost* commission
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 05:12 PM
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I guess I said that wrong, I wasn't trying to say being a stellar student will make you a good leader because it's not true at all. Education is so much more than coursework. What I'm saying is there's a reason you're required a "higher education" to be eligible to partake in an officer producing program. If you don't know how to lead, people are going to die. Hopefully one day if and when I pass LDAC I'll be on my way to earning a commission. Congrats on your *almost* commission
Thats good to hear, Im glad you recognize that as several of the newly commissioned lieutenants i've worked with, did not. Hell, their attitudes were 90% of the reason I applied for MECEP in the first place, to try and balance out their bs .
Pay attention to the leaders you have in your program and you will do just fine at LDAC.




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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-11-2009, 05:50 PM
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Army OCS is at Ft. Benning, where I went to PLDC. They had to march everywhere with someone beating a big bass drum. It was pretty damn funny.
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Was that regular Army? Mine was with the Wisconsin ARNG. I think that may have been a state requirement.
Some job fields will differ slightly in terms of OCS location but, generally, for Army, men go to Ft Benning and women go to Ft Leonard Wood (in MO). For intelligence reservists, I know they send them to a few weeks in South Dakota, and then to Ft Benning and then one other place (Yuma, maybe?).

Also, the length of OCS depends on the job field. Some are a few weeks, some are several months to even a year. There are all sorts of phases, and even after your officer commissioning, you might have to go to further officer training.

Personally, I think the most interesting job fields are the ones with the most rigorous training....that's part of what I'm wrestling with at the moment. The driven part of me wants to go Army (and they have career paths that are more interesting to me) but the "safe" part of me wants to go AF.

I would be curious to hear more about people's experience with the branches in this regard. Yes, everyone has their opinions (ha ha "chair force"...save that crap, PLEASE) but I'd like to hear real stories of difference/advantages/disadvantages to OCS per branch.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 08:35 AM
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Was that regular Army?
Yep.


To angelzhope: don't be one of those butter bars who thinks they know everything. Once you get your commission and get into the real army your first lesson is you don't know sh*t. I've seen way too many ROTC O-1s come into a unit with their head's full of the junk they learn in college and try to "fix" the platoon. Listen to your sergeants and remember that many of them are just as "educated" as you. In my MOS having college was pretty much mandatory to get the promotion points to move up.

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 11:30 AM
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I guess I said that wrong, I wasn't trying to say being a stellar student will make you a good leader because it's not true at all. Education is so much more than coursework. What I'm saying is there's a reason you're required a "higher education" to be eligible to partake in an officer producing program. If you don't know how to lead, people are going to die. Hopefully one day if and when I pass LDAC I'll be on my way to earning a commission. Congrats on your *almost* commission
From my experiences, excellent officers were prior enlisted. Don't be that hardheaded butter bar that likes doing things his way. Listen to your senior NCO's. If you don't I'm sure they'll put you in your place. BTW, if you want to make a good infantry officer, you might as well get Ranger school out of the way after OBC.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 11:41 AM
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Is the the stuff they teach over on the Army side of ROTC at UIC?!?!
Lmao, but good for you for committing to the program. I have been an enlisted Leader of Marines for nearly a decade with my only education being on the job leadership training. I now attend UIC as well as one of the Active duty members of ROTC for the Navy/Marine Corps team out of IIT. I commission next spring and while I believe the education I have received in college has been valuable, I do not agree the degree creates a leader. Experience, common sense, and honor do. None of which however can be found on a class schedule.
Dude, I hear what you are saying but I think that education is a big plus. I will say that a lot of my officers when I was in the army were not natural leaders and just because they went to college didn't make them ones. Conversely, a lot on NCOs were natural leaders and they didn't go to college.

However, education does bring a lot to the table and it's a needed sheepskin for sure. An educated officer who's also a natural leader is often very successful.

It's a decision the individual has to make. For me, I decided to enlist 1st and take ROTC courses my Fresh/Soph yr of college before the committment period in order to decide what was best for me.I had fully decided at the time of my enlistment that I would complete the ROTC program and even chose a college around that decision.

In the long run I just got tired of the Army. It's a big committment and it kept getting in the way of me attaining my Bachelors and Masters degrees. That's the main reason I got out.

For the most part my officers were lackluster and the senior NCOs were outstanding leaders. However, the senior NCOs I speak of represented only 5% of the NCOs in the battalion. The rest were generally foul mouthed, crude, drunk, and counterproductive or simply average joes who did the job but didn't want to rock the world or anything.

However, the officers who I most respected really were leaders and they took education seriously. These officers respected the NCOs and confered with them often then weighed the concerns of the soldiers with the mission and essentially put some thought into the solution. That's real leadership.

So the NCOs are the backbone of the military and to ignore that is trouble but to ignore a natural born leader and the education they bring to the table is worse.

Recently, I watched an old Gary Cooper movie, Sargeant York. This is about a WW1 pacifist who was a medal of honor winner for capturing 123 Germans single handedly at the battle of Argonne. York was an excellent shot and was recognized as an asset by his NCOs during basic training but recommended for discharge by them based on his application as a conscientious objector. However, his officers decided to retain him based on their educated reviews of his prospects in light of his request.

York ended up killing 20 Germans in order to save the lives of hundreds of his men. Based on his NCO review he wouild have been drilled out of the Army.

Blah, Blah, Blah

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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by spetsnaz56 View Post
From my experiences, excellent officers were prior enlisted. Don't be that hardheaded butter bar that likes doing things his way. Listen to your senior NCO's. If you don't I'm sure they'll put you in your place. BTW, if you want to make a good infantry officer, you might as well get Ranger school out of the way after OBC.
LOL, did you see my post?

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 03-12-2009, 11:46 AM
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LOL, did you see my post?
Dude, I only skim over the posts. There is way too much stuff to read. Sorry if you mentioned it already.
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