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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Wisconsin to track any car via GPS

Big Brother to the north
http://www.chicagotribune.com/techno...,5867383.story

Wisconsin court upholds GPS tracking by police

By RYAN J. FOLEY | Associated Press Writer
2:42 PM CDT, May 7, 2009

MADISON, Wis. - Wisconsin police can attach GPS to cars to secretly track anybody's movements without obtaining search warrants, an appeals court ruled Thursday.

However, the District 4 Court of Appeals said it was "more than a little troubled" by that conclusion and asked Wisconsin lawmakers to regulate GPS use to protect against abuse by police and private individuals.

As the law currently stands, the court said police can mount GPS on cars to track people without violating their constitutional rights -- even if the drivers aren't suspects.

Officers do not need to get warrants beforehand because GPS tracking does not involve a search or a seizure, Judge Paul Lundsten wrote for the unanimous three-judge panel based in Madison.


That means "police are seemingly free to secretly track anyone's public movements with a GPS device," he wrote.

One privacy advocate said the decision opened the door for greater government surveillance of citizens. Meanwhile, law enforcement officials called the decision a victory for public safety because tracking devices are an increasingly important tool in investigating criminal behavior.

The ruling came in a 2003 case involving Michael Sveum, a Madison man who was under investigation for stalking. Police got a warrant to put a GPS on his car and secretly attached it while the vehicle was parked in Sveum's driveway. The device recorded his car's movements for five weeks before police retrieved it and downloaded the information.

The information suggested Sveum was stalking the woman, who had gone to police earlier with suspicions. Police got a second warrant to search his car and home, found more evidence and arrested him. He was convicted of stalking and sentenced to prison.

Sveum, 41, argued the tracking violated his Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. He argued the device followed him into areas out of public view, such as his garage.

The court disagreed. The tracking did not violate constitutional protections because the device only gave police information that could have been obtained through visual surveillance, Lundsten wrote.

Even though the device followed Sveum's car to private places, an officer tracking Sveum could have seen when his car entered or exited a garage, Lundsten reasoned. Attaching the device was not a violation, he wrote, because Sveum's driveway is a public place.

"We discern no privacy interest protected by the Fourth Amendment that is invaded when police attach a device to the outside of a vehicle, as long as the information obtained is the same as could be gained by the use of other techniques that do not require a warrant," he wrote.

Although police obtained a warrant in this case, it wasn't needed, he added.

Larry Dupuis, legal director of the ACLU of Wisconsin, said using GPS to track someone's car goes beyond observing them in public and should require a warrant.

"The idea that you can go and attach anything you want to somebody else's property without any court supervision, that's wrong," he said. "Without a warrant, they can do this on anybody they want."

Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen's office, which argued in favor of the warrantless GPS tracking, praised the ruling but would not elaborate on its use in Wisconsin.

David Banaszynski, president of the Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association, said his department in the Milwaukee suburb of Shorewood does not use GPS. But other departments might use it to track drug dealers, burglars and stalkers, he said.

A state law already requires the Department of Corrections to track the state's most dangerous sex offenders using GPS. The author of that law, Rep. Scott Suder, R-Abbotsford, said the decision shows "GPS tracking is an effective means of protecting public safety."

-Nick
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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cliff notes version

polices do not need warrant or probable cause to attach gps to any car
judge ruled that driveway is public property

-Nick
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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 04:50 PM
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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 04:55 PM
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time to start inspecting my vehicle after every trip to WI

if i find one is it illegal to epoxy it to a squad to make sure an officer gets the unit back

-Jason
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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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i would be nice to be able to track all of the state troopers movements by attaching a gps to all the cars

-Nick
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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:02 PM
 
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If I find one I'm tossing it in the lake. If it's on my car it's my property.
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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:16 PM
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dont toss it in the lake, im tellin ya it will be far funnier when they find out they are tracking themselves

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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:37 PM
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No different then chicago doing it but then again they are only used by the narcotics team to track the dealers

go time traveler style and go back in time, fuck his grandma, then shoot forward in time and then fuck his mom. Then return back to present state and call him a the product of two incest whores and hes your son and show video of you plowing the both members of his family. .
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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotx1 View Post
dont toss it in the lake, im tellin ya it will be far funnier when they find out they are tracking themselves
attach it to the sherrifs boat on the lake lol

it just sounds too easy giving it back to them that way. Destruction of property sounds so much more fun.


Maybe collect them and reprogram them so they broadcast on a different frequency and then attach them to all the local cop cars.

Last edited by Superspud needs his med's; 05-11-2009 at 05:48 PM.
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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:58 PM
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And just one more reason to say fuck you to WI's finest!
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:58 PM
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yup i was gonna say that - put them on cop cars and use the iphone to track them

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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:59 PM
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It won't be too long before someone invents a low cost hand held device to sweep one's own car.

Last edited by ceptor; 05-11-2009 at 06:15 PM.
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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:21 PM
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It won't be too long before someone invents a low cost hand held device to sweep one's own car.
I give that 2-3 months. tops....

If I ever end up with one...and find it...that f'kr is going on a school bus....the shorter the better.

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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:37 PM
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time to start inspecting my vehicle after every trip to WI

if i find one is it illegal to epoxy it to a squad to make sure an officer gets the unit back
Well the squad car is government property, right? And we pay taxes, which means technically you sort of own the squad car... I say you're in the clear.
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:47 PM
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Guys read the story. The gps united used in the stalking case does not transmit your location. It just stores it and later the gps item needs to be retrevied to see where you were and when.
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:47 PM
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cool now biker speeds can be gps verfied.

This is going to be a long-term relationship
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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:52 PM
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Guys read the story. The gps united used in the stalking case does not transmit your location. It just stores it and later the gps item needs to be retrevied to see where you were and when.
It still must have an output signal at all times to communicate with the sats to get it's position. So they can still be found with a scanner if you tune it to GPS signals. Then just pull it off and leave it somewhere...the cops will have no proof that you did it yourself and it did not just "fall off" due to shitty roads.

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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 07:00 PM
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I'm honestly shocked IL didnt do this first. I'm sure it's not far behind.




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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 07:35 PM
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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 07:43 PM
 
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I see a new underground service being invented. Cell phone transmitters with Gps, bug all the cop cars then come up with some kind of integrated GPS/Fuzzbuster to sell on the downlow. Radar detectors will be obsolete w/in a decade.
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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Pow View Post
the cops will have no proof that you did it yourself and it did not just "fall off" due to shitty roads.
So the cops put a GPS tracking device on your car without your knowledge and without a warrant. Taking off said tracking device is a crime?

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In motorcycle terms, that's like taking your Ducati to a dealer for service, and they hand you back a 1979 backfiring Honda 400 Hawk.. because after all, a bike is a bike.
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:30 PM
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Interesting that the case they cite says they obtained a warrant to track him.

I think the leap of faith into warrant-less tracking just took a giant leap for mankind right there and not many people caught it because they tied it to a Domestic Violence incident.

Quote:
The ruling came in a 2003 case involving Michael Sveum, a Madison man who was under investigation for stalking. Police got a warrant to put a GPS on his car and secretly attached it while the vehicle was parked in Sveum's driveway. The device recorded his car's movements for five weeks before police retrieved it and downloaded the information.
I would argue that it does involve a search.. Without it, you would have to 'search' for the car...

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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:31 PM
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It still must have an output signal at all times to communicate with the sats to get it's position. So they can still be found with a scanner if you tune it to GPS signals. Then just pull it off and leave it somewhere...the cops will have no proof that you did it yourself and it did not just "fall off" due to shitty roads.
Some are passive and just collect the data (GPS info) and are retrieved later... and the data then downloaded and analyzed.

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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
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So the cops put a GPS tracking device on your car without your knowledge and without a warrant. Taking off said tracking device is a crime?
Hell no. It cant be a crime to remove the free aftermarket upgrade from your car, Unless of course that aftermarket upgrade was not dot certified. So is this gps device dot compliant? If not Wis is really guilty of a federal crime. They made your source of transportaion no longer legal to be driven on public road ways.





If this makes no sense to you blame it on me being drunk. Hawks win. Where is the i love to drink thread? god im lost.

Last edited by evil skinny; 05-12-2009 at 09:44 AM.
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 05:02 AM
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I see a new underground service being invented. Cell phone transmitters with Gps, bug all the cop cars then come up with some kind of integrated GPS/Fuzzbuster to sell on the downlow. Radar detectors will be obsolete w/in a decade.
I believe most if not all new cell phones already have GPS capability. Without it they can still track your location fairly accurately as long as it is on. It is intended for E911 location and a substantial number of people carry them voluntarily.

Warrants to obtain your own GPS records will probably become commonplace too.

Do you feel safe now?

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 06:04 AM
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If it didn't have to be retrieved to be downloaded I would say slap thin thing on an over the road semi and let them have fun going state to state with a trucker! Or stick it on a container that gets shipped over seas.
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusaDave View Post
I believe most if not all new cell phones already have GPS capability. Without it they can still track your location fairly accurately as long as it is on. It is intended for E911 location and a substantial number of people carry them voluntarily.

Warrants to obtain your own GPS records will probably become commonplace too.

Do you feel safe now?
I know most cellphones already have it, just throwing out some ideas for a buisiness model.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 09:48 AM
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I wonder how long it will be before the government talls what kind of potty paper I can use - based on the conditions ? Perhaps whether I should stand or sit - maybe a wire will tell them if I will need to sit soon - this is getting just ridiculous

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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusaDave View Post
I believe most if not all new cell phones already have GPS capability. Without it they can still track your location fairly accurately as long as it is on. It is intended for E911 location and a substantial number of people carry them voluntarily.

Warrants to obtain your own GPS records will probably become commonplace too.

Do you feel safe now?

There is already a device called a "beartracker" .... it is a device that
detects the relay radio installed in the police car.


It's noise in the city..... but out in the boondocks it works 100%.
And you *know* the radio repeater is on ....unlike POP radar.



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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 10:01 AM
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So the cops put a GPS tracking device on your car without your knowledge and without a warrant. Taking off said tracking device is a crime?
I see this as a gray area, as yes it was on your property "without your knowlage" and from that aspect removing it should not be a crime. However losing it or distroying it could be considered "theft/distruction" of public properity.

So you're best off removing it, dropping it on the road and claiming no knowlage. Then when they come a-callin lookin for it, play dumb.

Quote:
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Some are passive and just collect the data (GPS info) and are retrieved later... and the data then downloaded and analyzed.
Arch, even a passive unit needs to have some send recieve data at a constant rate to communicate with the satalite, to find it's position, even if it doesn't transmit that location data to anywhere...it still needs to transmit and recieve with a positioning satalite to find itself, scan those frequencies and you'll find it. Same as any Garmin.

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