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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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IT certifications ???

Do these help out in getting a job in the IT arena ?

Looking to get some certifications under my belt like Oracle and/or Java. Does anyone know of any reputable places to get one and how much they cost? Any success or horror stories ???
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 01:22 PM
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They can help a lot, depending on the ceritifcation and whether you have a college degree. The main advantage is a 3rd party acknowledgement of what you put on your resume.

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 01:24 PM
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My experience has been that the more letters behind your name the more useless you are in real life... that being said, the level of certification required to get a job depends upon the job that you want (or have). There are so many different certifications you can get now that I would be careful that you aren't wasting your time and money getting certified for something you'll never use and then by the time you do need it, the technology has changed so much that your training is outdated. Certainly studying something that interests you has its own rewards, but my advice is to find out the requirements for the occupation that you want and then head in that direction.

In other words, don't get certified in Oracle if you are applying to a DB2 shop.

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 01:33 PM
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I am A+, N+, iNet+, Server+, MCP, CNA, and MCSE certified. I did all my studying at home and went in to take the tests at a Sylvan testing center. The tests are usually 100 bucks, but I haven't taken one in a while. My experiance is - Get Certified - If nothing else, it shows that you have the determination and dedication to follow through with something. Being in a position to hire, that's one of the things I look for.

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 01:42 PM
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i am not in favor of people who go get certified just for paper sake. in my experiance it lacks complete knowledge of how to actually apply what you have learned.

In my experiance when looking to switch jobs, real world experiance has been the deal closer, and a very well thought out resume (with minimul to no BS) is usually the deal opener.

my resume is 3 pages long (some say its to long) (but from people i have interviewed with ABNAMRO, Leo Bernett and a few others, they loved it except i was just too young for them at the time) but it is very clear as to what i have done, can do, will do for you.

it is very clear and points to a direction that i want to go within a company.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 01:45 PM
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I'm going to agree with Optimus on this one. I have seen several people with all the fancy letters next to there name but couldn't figure out how to change an IP address. If you can show that you know what your talking about and show past experiance I think your better off.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 02:18 PM
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Certifications are fine if you have actually use them in a real world environment. With certifications a lot of places prepare you to pass the test but not to deal with the real world situations that you will encounter. I have not paid for any certifications out of my pocket, all my certs have been paid by my employer. The only piece of paper that has any weight in my eyes is your Bachelors or Masters. A good resume like Optimus mentioned weights more than a bunch of acronyms.

Experience weights a lot more, BS will always make you look bad in the end, specially in the IT world.

With that said though, The two things that you mentioned are really good skill sets that could complement a bachelors degree but I doubt that someone would hire you solely on those certifications with no previous experience.

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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 02:22 PM
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I would have to say tho, a college degree is not always needed.

i am a GED kid w/ like a combined 1 years worth of community college.

i know everyone wants to start out makeing big bucks, but pay your dues man and start at the bottom doing tech support, and move up. dont forget that job hopping is (at least i think) expected early on in your career.

i think the statistic was you could get up to 10K more per hop.

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for all the info guys.

I really need to think what I need to do.

Is it better to do all the studying at home and give the tests or go to an institute and pay the fees and learn properly???

Man, finding a job is really a pain in this economy especially in IT field. Wish I had graduated 4 or 5 years ago during the .com boom. Also, it doesnot help that most of the company's are out sourcing alot of their work i.e overseas.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 03:03 PM
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Try working for a contracting company at first. Consulting(for help desk support and such) sucks, but at least it will get your feet wet... do you have any experience at all right now?

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by new2r1
Man, finding a job is really a pain in this economy especially in IT field.
Dude, it's tough all over - not just in IT.

Quote:
Originally posted by new2r1
Wish I had graduated 4 or 5 years ago during the .com boom.
Then you would have been laid off with every other IT guy I know and still be in search of a job.

Quote:
Originally posted by new2r1
Also, it doesnot help that most of the company's are out sourcing alot of their work i.e overseas.
That's just NOT true. While there is a trend towards off-shore development, MOST or the MAJORITY is not done overseas. At least not yet. That's just people trying to explain the slow-down and lack of recovery, blah, blah, blah.

Keep your head up... it will happen.

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 03:37 PM
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I would do the reading and studying at home... That way you get the full understanding of it rather than taking the class and getting just what you need to pass the test.

And as for you non-believers out there, I started with a consulting firm, but couldn't get a raise until I got A+ certified. Then, I couldn't get LAN admin rights until I got CNA certified. So, I did. As far as not knowing what we certified people are talking about... Let me tell you... You have to know your shit on these tests! Especially Microsoft. Not just anyone can pass these tests. Microsoft weeded their people out! Don't believe me... Take a test! And as for college degrees... I know plenty of people with them that couldn't turn a computer on, let alone change an IP address. That statement was weighted.

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 03:38 PM
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I would do the reading and studying at home... That way you get the full understanding of it rather than taking the class and getting just what you need to pass the test.

And as for you non-believers out there, I started with a consulting firm, but couldn't get a raise until I got A+ certified. Then, I couldn't get LAN admin rights until I got CNA certified. So, I did. As far as not knowing what we certified people are talking about... Let me tell you... You have to know your shit on these tests! Especially Microsoft. Not just anyone can pass these tests. Microsoft weeded their people out! Don't believe me... Take a test! And as for college degrees... I know plenty of people with them that couldn't turn a computer on, let alone change an IP address. That statement was weighted.

... and yes, 3 pages is too long Optimus.

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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 03:57 PM
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Certifications for networks, get my respect, certification for DBA and Software development not so much... There is way too much ground to cover for a test to really work. Object Oriented Programing alone will have to be a separate test... and you have to know that to know Java.

I agree with some of the stuff you say Pirate... but a cert is really not a good indicator specially for hiring, because there are braindumps and also booth camps that will get you certified... also you do not know if that cert was achieved after taking the test 3 times and just barely passing it on the last one.

Experience is the most valuable in my experience because you can really show how you used your knowledge, not just that you have it. You can have reference books right next to you but if you don't know how to use them they are not worth much.

3 pages is actually not long at all depending on your career, I have mine condensed down to 2, but some companies in the past have asked me to expand it... if you fill them with valuable information on the type of projects and accomplishments they are worth a lot.

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Try working for a contracting company at first. Consulting(for help desk support and such) sucks, but at least it will get your feet wet... do you have any experience at all right now?

no hard core experience yet, i am still waiting for my big break through. Some one said it right, " the first one is always the hardest"
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 04:20 PM
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i cant talk for microsoft test cuz the only time i meet anyone that was MS certified was in the late 90's w/ NT4. and 98% of them couldnt find a start button.

as far as resume length. DROP EVERY NAME YOU CAN.

remember even if you are just getting into the field or a vet you need something on your resume to spark. and nothing sparkles like HUGE COMPANY NAMES. i always position myself to be Enterprise material.

the job market sucks everywhere. my wife is just getting her 1st job and she graduated double major from UIC like 2 years ago.

here at my work they didnt fire/layoff any IT people. but we have a small staff to begin with.

btw in case ur curious what we do. i am a unix admin.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 04:25 PM
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Let me chime in with my $.02

I have over 15 years of It exp., and college degree. I've made good money while working for others. When I got laid off 4 months after my wife I didn't know what to do. I thought I needed all these it certs that people are talking about. I am not against get certified, matter of fact I am getting my PMP for project managment this year. My wife and I decided to start our own company and let our year of work expereince speack for it self. So far God has blessed our firm with several contracts, and the future looks real bright. Bottom line. know what you are talking about or else it doesn matter how many letters are behind your name.

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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 04:35 PM
 
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my older brother is CCNA certified, and one summer back in high school... he told me to read his books and get the certification and when i did, i hardly understood what was going on... he had to tutor me through it and it actually wasnt THAT hard after he explained it to me...

so if you dont have any IT experience... then i recommend taking somewhat of a class so you can ask questions... but otherwise, a lot of people DO just read the books - understand it - and get the certification...
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 05:25 PM
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Ok... that's cool. Everyone has their own opinion and that's oke doke. All I'm doing is offering my opinion. Just trying to help a brotha out.

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 06:14 PM
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Who is open to do some side work? As I get projects it is always nice to know where the resources are.

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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 06:33 PM
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Hey BroBill... tried to PM you but your box is full.

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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 06:50 PM
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Thanks Andy.

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 07:34 PM
 
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i graduated last year from Devry U and as soon as i got out i found a job through Ajilon Consulting which placed me at a repectable financial company headquartered here in Chicago - i had to pay my dues to da IT firm until my company brought me on full time after 3 months - as everyone said u must pay ur dues - for my dept we must become A+ cert Net+ and HDI (Help Desk Institute) before movin on - i got switched over pretty quickly compared to other contractors which took almost 8-12 months to become full time employees - i do have a bachelors from Devry and i was the only 1 of 4 that did not have my A+ cert that was converted after 3 months

its a start hopefully gettin into Networkin or management in da years to come...

have a good resume!! within the first 5 mins of an interview employers will know if they want u or not

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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BroBill
Who is open to do some side work? As I get projects it is always nice to know where the resources are.
Depends on the type of work.

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 08:04 PM
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Re: IT certifications ???

Quote:
Originally posted by new2r1
Do these help out in getting a job in the IT arena ?

Looking to get some certifications under my belt like Oracle and/or Java. Does anyone know of any reputable places to get one and how much they cost? Any success or horror stories ???
One thing that needs to be addressed is that you can have all the letters and degrees after your name, but YOU MUST have a kickass résumé and interviewing skills. During my last contracting gig, I knew that it was going to be next to impossible to find an IT job. But, I re-tooled my résumé and started to polish my interview skills.

I must have spent over 40 hours constructing a new résumé while reading a few books on IT résumé writing.

Lastly, I landed my first "real job" after college, based solely on my interview skills. The hiring manager told me later on that I was one of the best interviewees that she had prospected.

My message here is that you have to multi vector assault the job hunting task. It just does not end with the technical knowledge.

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-28-2003, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Depends on the type of work.

yea, what he said
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2003, 12:10 AM
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I think the Certs will get you past the HR Dept and may get you to an interview but experience and knowlege of the products are the key.

Just my .02
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2003, 12:12 AM
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You said Java or Oracle certifications. If you have no Java experience, you better take some classes or read some books, and build a foundation of good programming skills/habits first. If you have Java experience and are a good programmer, I would only certify if my employer required it or if I would receive a pay raise for it. If you have no database experience, don't bother with Oracle certification. If you do, it would be obvious if you needed a certification in Oracle.

(this is assuming you have no experience in the IT industry)
If you want to get started on the road to an IT career, take the A+ certification. This is a great cert for newbies, and required for a number of entry level IT positions( if not, it will at least look good on your resume). It will give you exposure to most aspects of a computer system. After the A+, you will have a better understanding of the indusrty, and be better able to make your next decision---programming, web design, database admin or networking admin.

Another way to look at certifications is it gives you the chance to make friends who work in the industry. Through social networking, more job interviews my come your way. But, you still need to know your sh*t.

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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2003, 12:18 AM
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Re: Re: IT certifications ???

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBusa
One thing that needs to be addressed is that you can have all the letters and degrees after your name, but YOU MUST have a kickass résumé and interviewing skills.
Yep, resume must be complete and concise and targeted toward the job you are trying for, bringing out the aspect of your skills best suited for the job.

I use the resume to get a rough idea of the candidate and use the information there to formulate questions. I prefer a somewhat laid-back interview style and I look for two things: your confidence in your skills and whether I determine that confidence has any substance or is built on BS. A bunch of fluff to beef up your resume is a big turnoff.

Actually, I also try to determine if your personality is going to work well with the team, so I suppose that's really three things.

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2003, 09:06 AM
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I dont know about you guys, but i never put an objective on a resume.

i usually found it a waste of space, as every employer already knows your objective is to get a job in that company.

how about you guys n gals?

Willard: When I was home after my first tour, it was worse. I'd wake up and there'd be nothing. I hardly said a word to my wife, until I said "yes" to a divorce. When I was here, I wanted to be there; when I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle.
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