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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Macbook Pro Inbound!!

Just placed my order for a Macbook pro. This is part of my grand experiment. We are a systems integrator (industrial automation) with about 30 engineers. We have a lot of specialized (expensive/licensed) software we use and are already heavily invested in VMware. Some of the vendors of this software don't play well with other vendors so we need to use vendor specific VM images and often times run multiple instances to do a job. Also, we aren't seeing a great outpouring of support for Windows 7 in the industrial automation world yet so we still have to mess around with XP in most cases.

One of my guys bought a Macbook, personally, and we tested it with VMware and connected to all our equipment (some of which uses 9 pin serial connections) and it worked and it was fast as shit. We may run up to 4 VM images simultaneously which is obviously a resource hog.

Excited to see how this performs over the long run. I kinda put my ass on the line for this so it has to work out. It was about $800 more than what our typical Dell laptop would cost. Our typical Dell was lasting 18 to 24 months. I'm hoping our direct payback is a longer lasting laptop and indirectly increase our efficiencies. Also digging the 7 hour battery life. My Dell Precision M6500 gets about 45 minutes...

It'll be ready for pick up March 4th. So if anyone has any useful tips or must read forums please pass them along. Aside from one of my employees we are complete Mac noobs. If this works out I'll get everyone in the company to convert. Lol.

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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 02:49 PM
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in all the reviews I've seen it seems Parallels runs faster than VMware, so if you're looking to squeeze out every bit of performance you can, you might want to give that virtualization software a try.


if you're looking for easy drop in upgrades on your MacBooks, the guys out in otherworldcomputing have proven upgrades. you might save a few bucks picking it up yourself from tigerdirect, but why bother if work is paying for it and you want something tested and proved.

http://macsales.com for disk or memory upgrades
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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I ordered it with every option so I don't think there's much left to upgrade. 16 Gb RAM, 768 Gb flash drive, blah, blah, blah. I also don't think the new Pro's with Retina displays are user serviceable??

The reason I need to stick with VM is because all of our images are already done. Some of the software (Siemens specifically) can take up to 4 or 5 hours to install. So VM is going to have to be the choice. That is unless one of the other virtual software companies can start out with an image made by VMware?? Can that work??

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 07:09 PM
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPKII View Post
I ordered it with every option so I don't think there's much left to upgrade. 16 Gb RAM, 768 Gb flash drive, blah, blah, blah. I also don't think the new Pro's with Retina displays are user serviceable??

The reason I need to stick with VM is because all of our images are already done. Some of the software (Siemens specifically) can take up to 4 or 5 hours to install. So VM is going to have to be the choice. That is unless one of the other virtual software companies can start out with an image made by VMware?? Can that work??
The retina's have the ram soldered to the MB so id stay away just incase you wanna upgrade in the future. And honestly, you wont notice a huge difference quality wise.

As far as mac noobie, check out macforums.com lots of backend stuff and random answer on there. Just give it a bit to relearn how to use and access things on Mac OS's. But overall in the end youll never look back. I switched 8 years ago and I'll never use a pc again.

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentAlero View Post
As far as mac noobie, check out macforums.com lots of backend stuff and random answer on there. Just give it a bit to relearn how to use and access things on Mac OS's. But overall in the end youll never look back. I switched 8 years ago and I'll never use a pc again.
You meant to say you'll never use Microsoft's OS again.. you're still using a PC.

I'd never buy into an OS that is hardware dependent like OS X. If apple was smart they would let their OS be ran on any machine (Legitimately). I prefer Linux over OS X just for that reason.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2013, 11:17 AM
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Macbook Pro Inbound!!

OSX > Windows

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2013, 11:33 AM
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osx > windows
+100000000

You better be nice to America or we will bring democracy to your country.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by OldSkoolMC View Post
If apple was smart they would let their OS be ran on any machine (Legitimately). I prefer Linux over OS X just for that reason.
Goes against their whole philosophy of "Why Apple?" - As for being smart, I think they are doing okay there...

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 08:39 AM
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As for being smart, I think they are doing okay there...

Not really.

Windows 7 44.48%
Windows XP 39.51%
OS X 7.08%
Windows Vista 5.24%
Windows 8 2.26%
Linux 1.21%
Other 0.22%

Desktop OS Market Share as of January 2013

Maybe in the mobile world apple is doing well but as far as desktops - they are still owned by Microsoft. They also don't even show up on the map in the server world. The percentage of Web servers are running Linux, mainframe is IBM, and super computers run Linux.

Sure apple leads with the IOS software but after that = nothing. Statistics don't lie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems

As I said before. If Apple was SMART they would allow their precious OSX to be installed on any computer then maybe they would make some head way in the desktop arena. Until then = FAIL - 7.08% is getting spanked in my book.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 08:50 AM
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Desktop? - Welcome to 1998 Bro - Every hear of a little thing that is hard charging the Corp world called "Bring Your Own Device" or BYOD? - The Days of the Desktops are all but on there way out with the Mainframes....

But I get it, I am sure Apple could use you on their Board to help them not be so Cash Rich and one of the most powerful companies on the Planet

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolMC View Post
Not really.

Windows 7 44.48%
Windows XP 39.51%
OS X 7.08%
Windows Vista 5.24%
Windows 8 2.26%
Linux 1.21%
Other 0.22%

Desktop OS Market Share as of January 2013

Maybe in the mobile world apple is doing well but as far as desktops - they are still owned by Microsoft. They also don't even show up on the map in the server world. The percentage of Web servers are running Linux, mainframe is IBM, and super computers run Linux.

Sure apple leads with the IOS software but after that = nothing. Statistics don't lie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems

As I said before. If Apple was SMART they would allow their precious OSX to be installed on any computer then maybe they would make some head way in the desktop arena. Until then = FAIL - 7.08% is getting spanked in my book.
OS X is everything linux wants to be. With the difference of hardware restriction. And there is a good reason for it, you won't get hardware compatibility issues on a mac.

Netmarketshare.com stats you posted cover pretty much all the countries in the world. Majority of which you can pick up a pirated copy of Windblowz for a less than a dollar at a local market. Cheap and available doesn't mean good or reliable. You out of all the people should know that.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 09:35 AM
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Bug speaks the truth: Desktop is truly going the way of the dodo
http://gizmodo.com/5978232/intel-to-...p-motherboards

snip/

It's the end of an era: Intel has announced that, over the next three years, it will wind down production of desktop motherboards to zero.

The company will continue to supply chipsets for use by third party motherboard manufacturers—the likes of ASUS, ASRock and Gigabyte—but after 2013 it won't make more motherboards itself, reports Anandtech. In fact, the last output from Intel will be 'boards that accommodate its soon-to-launch Haswell architecture chips (the successor to Ivy Bridge). It'll then wind down and not bother for its subsequent set of silicon.

/snip
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 09:36 AM
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I'm interested to see the performance results too. Keep us posted.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 10:06 AM
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OSX > Windows
I still like XP better than OSX and all other windows Os. It just works.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 04:20 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug View Post
Desktop? - Welcome to 1998 Bro - Every hear of a little thing that is hard charging the Corp world called "Bring Your Own Device" or BYOD? - The Days of the Desktops are all but on there way out with the Mainframes....

But I get it, I am sure Apple could use you on their Board to help them not be so Cash Rich and one of the most powerful companies on the Planet
All I can say is

Put it to you this way... I've been working in the computer field since the early 90s. I work currently in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs with all kinds of companies from Sales, Law Firms, CPA Firms, Manufacturers..etc, etc. And I can tell you right now the desktop isn't going anywhere for a very long time. Nor is Apple going to have any substantial market share in Corporate America anytime soon.

Do you know why computers speeds are limited to what they are today? HEAT. Until they start using synthetic diamonds(or some other substance) over silicon - desktops are and will still be a more powerful machine purely based on cooling. Period. And for the record I speaking about business class machines not your $500 Walmart special.

... And that's 2015+ Bro

BTW... I get where you're coming from... someone who surfs the web on their iPad tablet. POWER USER!

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolMC View Post
All I can say is

Put it to you this way... I've been working in the computer field since the early 90s. I work currently in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs with all kinds of companies from Sales, Law Firms, CPA Firms, Manufacturers..etc, etc. And I can tell you right now the desktop isn't going anywhere for a very long time. Nor is Apple going to have any substantial market share in Corporate America anytime soon.

Do you know why computers speeds are limited to what they are today? HEAT. Until they start using synthetic diamonds(or some other substance) over silicon - desktops are and will still be a more powerful machine purely based on cooling. Period. And for the record I speaking about business class machines not your $500 Walmart special.

... And that's 2015+ Bro

BTW... I get where you're coming from... someone who surfs the web on their iPad tablet. POWER USER!
Ha - Okay Bro - You live your world and I'll live mine - Glad to hear you have been in the industry for as long as you have and I am sure you know your shit - I can also tell you that I sit with CFOs and CEOs of any Fort 100 that is HQ'ed in the Midwest and the number one thing they all want to speak to me about (outside of Security) is Reduction in Operating Costs without sacrificing performance - We look at the cost of maintaing their desktop environment and what the same costs with a 50% (minimum) reduction by looking at either BYOD or Laptops and Tablets - When I can show Walgreens, Abbott, Baxter, Allstate, McDonalds, Kraft, Kelloggs (you see where I am going with this) and many more that the same $5M+ they spend on Desktop gets them into Laptop and Tablet be it BYOD or not will cover new leased equip, half the Data Center Space (I can talk to the reduction that cost too) and roll out and by year 2 they are at about $1.5M to maintain and after (12) mos see a $3.5M saving annually, the desktop becomes the way of a boat anchor

If I was not having this conversation at least once a week I would not even chime in - AND, I am not even in the HW game nor am I selling leases - I get hired for various reasons and one is by far the leader, do more with less and help me control costs without sacrifice and when we look at the cost to maintain the old Desktop environment, it is clear where they can improve

Also, why would Apple sell their OS to any other Mfg when keeping their OS to their specific hardware has made them one of the strongest players in the market? They are not competitive in Desktop because they have NO DESIRE TO BE - The world is going Mobile and they have been ahead of that curve for a decade now - Phone, Tablet, Macbooks have all forced other Mfgs to play catch up

I get that you are by the stats and what you see but many other see things differently and if I was not in these Executives offices having these discussions weekly, I would not have even chimed in

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 06:51 PM
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I know my knowledge in this subject doesn't come close to some of you. But after installing pages on my iPad and trying to produce something I was happy with, I ended up getting it for may MacBook Pro and making it exactly what I wanted.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug View Post
Ha - Okay Bro - You live your world and I'll live mine - Glad to hear you have been in the industry for as long as you have and I am sure you know your shit - I can also tell you that I sit with CFOs and CEOs of any Fort 100 that is HQ'ed in the Midwest and the number one thing they all want to speak to me about (outside of Security) is Reduction in Operating Costs without sacrificing performance - We look at the cost of maintaing their desktop environment and what the same costs with a 50% (minimum) reduction by looking at either BYOD or Laptops and Tablets - When I can show Walgreens, Abbott, Baxter, Allstate, McDonalds, Kraft, Kelloggs (you see where I am going with this) and many more that the same $5M+ they spend on Desktop gets them into Laptop and Tablet be it BYOD or not will cover new leased equip, half the Data Center Space (I can talk to the reduction that cost too) and roll out and by year 2 they are at about $1.5M to maintain and after (12) mos see a $3.5M saving annually, the desktop becomes the way of a boat anchor

If I was not having this conversation at least once a week I would not even chime in - AND, I am not even in the HW game nor am I selling leases - I get hired for various reasons and one is by far the leader, do more with less and help me control costs without sacrifice and when we look at the cost to maintain the old Desktop environment, it is clear where they can improve

Also, why would Apple sell their OS to any other Mfg when keeping their OS to their specific hardware has made them one of the strongest players in the market? They are not competitive in Desktop because they have NO DESIRE TO BE - The world is going Mobile and they have been ahead of that curve for a decade now - Phone, Tablet, Macbooks have all forced other Mfgs to play catch up

I get that you are by the stats and what you see but many other see things differently and if I was not in these Executives offices having these discussions weekly, I would not have even chimed in

I see exactly where you're going with the desktops.... but that still doesn't address the FACT that Mac isn't doing squat in the corporate world nor will it for a long time. And to say desktops are going away is crazy.

Sure there are companies that have a mobile force out there but even them have a OS that needs to be ran that their accounting software or other apps can run on. And below is the answer the larger companies are going with.

And to save all that money you're talking about.... It's called VDI.

Here is VMware's VDI > http://www.vmware.com/products/view/overview.html

Thing is not everyone can work off a tablet or notebook. Just because you can do it doesn't exactly mean that you can be efficient. I can run a remote desktop client on a ipad.... works like shit compared to working off a notebook or desktop. I rather have my dual screen 23" screens going when logging into a system to work on.

All of my CPA clients can't stand working off a mobile device over a desktop machine. (They all use notebooks in the field but desktops in the office or docking stations.

Bottom line is (and my whole point I was trying to make) Apple SHOULD allow their OS to run on any system. IMO, that would allow users to buy hardware of their choice and be able to experience the mac os. It also could possibly help them move into the corporate world. More users = movement.

and BTW, I am a "cloud" provider(I hate that word..haha) and just because we can host doesn't mean that it fits every situation. I steer many clients into private cloud. Keeping their hardware in-house. Everyone is different, everyone has different needs. Not everyone can be a mobile force a lot depends on the nature of the business.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 08:20 PM
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My Co is well vested in the Cloud game and is also the only Hosting Co to guarantee a 100% Uptime SLA but to me, cloud is just ASP on Roids - VMW was one of our biggest investors and we do tons of VDI so I get that game

What you are saying Apple should do goes against their Core Foundation of how the company was built - They don't want the Corp World and have built a completely different business model - One which Harvard Business teaches Master Level classes on - I am guessing if the wanted to, they could do just that in the Corp world as EVERYONE I talk to wants to get away from MS and their licensing - Apple is one of the most cash rich companies in the world and could hire anyone to revamp the business model and probably still have more cash than 50% of the companies on the planet but it goes against their ENTIRE business model

Think of it this way, Aprilla built one HELLVAH motor with the SXV and carried that technology to the MXV for the dirt - Ape could sell that motor to Husaberg, Husky, KTM, GasGas, etc etc so more people could use that motor but Ape really does not care about the Dirt Bike World as their Revenue comes from all the other bikes BUT if you want that bad ass Motor, you need to buy an Ape

You are talking about a fundamental shift in Apple as one of the most successful companies in History - I am POSITIVE they have researched this and if it made sense to do so, they would have already done it

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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 PM
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I got stuck in Vancouver for longer than expect. It was ready for pick up last Thursday but I won't be able to get it until this Wednesday. Which sux because my Dell M6500 is seriously on its last leg and if it dies while I am on a job I am *screwed*. I dare not restart it. It usually takes 2 or 3 times before it will actually boot (sits at "Starting Windows" screen with no windows logo). Plus I have the joy of it blue screening at least once per day. Blue screen logger I have installed gives different reasons each time. My IT guys are lost with it.

I will certainly keep this thread updated with how things are going with the Mac. I have pretty high expectations and am very picky about stuff so I won't hold back on it. LOL.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.

....Abraham Lincoln
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 01:32 PM
bwa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolMC View Post
bish please



Although it definitely didn't run right
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-20-2013, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Joliet, IL
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So I've worked for about a week with the Mac. The first week I still used my Dell for a crutch while I got a few things ironed out.

Speeds are insane (spec wise the Mac is very similar to my M6500). Our VM images run soo much faster on this. Plus unity mode kicks serious ass.

Intuitive controls. Everything about this was easy. The gestures are really cool and come very naturally. Connecting to our Windows 2003 & 2008 servers was a snap, adding networked printers was a snap, setting up Cisco VPN was a snap. I don't think our migration time will be a major factor if we make this leap company wide.

My last issue is figuring out how to get 15 years worth of archived Outlook mail into the mac. And yes, I save *everything*. LOL. Unfortunately I haven't really had time to look into it. It's kind of low priority at the moment.

Battery life is significantly less than I expected. With 1 VM image running, Mail & Calendar & Safari open with no streaming or audio my battery lasted 3.5 hours (100% --> 2%). Screen brightness was set to about 70%. I downloaded a battery app to try to analyze the performance and see if there are other things I can do to improve this. The advertised 7 hour battery life, even taken with a grain of advertising salt, was a selling point to the Mac. I need to be closer to 5 hours (which I'm sure with dimming screen brightness even further is achievable). Ideally I'd like enough battery to last a flight to London.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.

....Abraham Lincoln

Last edited by JPKII; 03-20-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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