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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Networking/File sharing geeks...how is this done?

Being that I'm into all the techno stuff myself, I understand how folks are caught on public networks, but how is the RIAA catching people on Internet2 if it's a closed connection? Any ideas?

http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0...w=wn_tophead_2

"The entertainment industry took another swipe at file traders on college campuses on Tuesday, saying that it will sue students who use Internet2, the high speed research and education network, to share copyright materials.

The Recording Industry Association of America will file 405 lawsuits against individuals at 18 colleges across the country on Wednesday. The RIAA is targeting those who use a file sharing application called i2hub to distribute music on a "massive scale," said RIAA president Cary Sherman.

At the same time, the Motion Picture Association of America is filing "several lawsuits" against file traders on college campuses, according to a press release issued on Tuesday morning.

Internet2 is a closed network that allows universities to share large files for research purposes. The i2hub software allows for lightening-quick downloads: Less than 20 seconds for a song and less than five minutes for a movie, Sherman said.

The software is a peer-to-peer, file-sharing application developed for "student collabortion" on Internet2, according to the i2hub website. "I2hub is the conduit in which students across the globe connect to share ideas, collaborate and form social networks in a real-time environment never before achieved," the site says.

Internet2 "as been hijacked for illegal purposes," Sherman said. For some reason, he said, students have considered i2hub as "a safe zone for illegal activity."

Sherman would not say how the group tracked down the alleged infringers.

According to the RIAA, those targeted distributed on average more than 3,900 files, such as audio, software and video. Music accounted for the majority of trades. Some alleged traders shared as many as 72,000 total files, the RIAA said.

The RIAA sent letters to university presidents alerting them to the lawsuits, and asking them for help in combating illegal file trading. Sherman said that the group is asking the schools to consider filtering and bringing legitimate music services to their campuses.

"We would hope they would be a little more proactive in identifying these problems," Sherman said.

Those sued in this first round against i2hub users include students at Harvard University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Carnegie Mellon and the University of California-Berkeley, among others. The RIAA is limiting the number of students sued to 25 per campus, though it has evidence of even more infringement.

Sherman said the trade group has collected evidence at another 140 schools in 41 states.

The RIAA is not targeting the company that developed i2hub. The RIAA said it is waiting for the outcome of the Grokster case recently heard by the Supreme Court. In that case, entertainment companies want two operators of file sharing services -- Grokster and StreamCast Networks -- to be held liable for the copyright infringement of their users. A decision is expected this summer.

Since it began its lawsuit campaign in September 2003, the music trade group has sued more than 9,000 file sharers, including a 12-year-old girl and computer-illiterate grandparents. Many have settled out of court for between $3,000 and 5,000. "
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:27 PM
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not hard, it's enough for one student to be a son/daughter of someone involved in trackin piracy down...
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:27 PM
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Easy, hire smart people LOL

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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I understand...but if you're going to file suit, wouldn't you have to have a legit way of getting the information? I fully get that you can simply hack in or even easier to simply sniff the network. However it doesn't seem like some of these techniques which are illegal themselves would be inadmissable in court? That's why I figure it's gotta be some legit way or the RIAA could be ordered to cease and desist. That's mostly why I ask...or am I wrong in the first place?
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:55 PM
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They just look at the packets to see destination IP (i beleive).
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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It's a closed network though...so you can't just walk in and make yourself at home.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:56 PM
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Some software (Ms Media Player for Example) is now asking you to register your CD's, while you can chose not to, sometimes while downloading updates there are some agreements and settings that will send information back (in many cases just saying ok to that license agreement can be enough) for them to share that information back to whoever.

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
It's a closed network though...so you can't just walk in and make yourself at home.

Yes, I believe there needs to be cooperation on at least one end of the stream. I think BWA is right on this one.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ok, well let's say that it's some sort of communication with the outside world, it still wouldn't explain the DVD rips being shared. And even more so, I'm guessing that on a college network, you do not have a unique public IP address, so the outside world could see that something illegal is coming from your network let's say, but not specifically your computer. Only the router would know that.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:05 PM
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IF the network is mapped, and the school cooperates, every single IP will be readily available. I am guessing the people busted were doing it from the dorm not the computer lab. Maybe I am assuming a little too much.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yea that could be just someone on the inside, or the school taking it upon themselves to help out the poor RIAA. The way we used to do it (though not really for security purposes) was to post lists of what we have and do direct transfers so you know exactly who you're sending to. And while the transfers were encrypted, they're still not fool proof, but you figure no one is going to bother with that when there's enough others out there that aren't hiding to bust.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:08 PM
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They are going after massive amounts of sharing. Not just your usual download here and there. I am surprised that someone from MIT would get busted thought, that is kind of funny.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logtar
IF the network is mapped, and the school cooperates, every single IP will be readily available. I am guessing the people busted were doing it from the dorm not the computer lab. Maybe I am assuming a little too much.
Ok only down side of the school cooperating is that the legit stuff is also exposed. Some privacy issues there I would think.

That's why no matter how you look at it, it seems that something not-so-legit has to be done on the RIAA side to get the info. Hell even someone willing and helping on the inside is still hacking or phishing. I can't go on my work network and start collecting data to give to a televangelist to recruit people simply because I think it's a good cause or purpose. Bad comparison, but ya get the jist of it.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:11 PM
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Oh I am with you there, privacy though (being realistic) is really a thing of the past, carnivore...

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logtar
IF the network is mapped, and the school cooperates, every single IP will be readily available. I am guessing the people busted were doing it from the dorm not the computer lab. Maybe I am assuming a little too much.
That information would only be available if the firewall is completely logging ALL traffic. When an oubound packet hits a stateful inspection firewall, its private IP is removed and the public external IP (usually a reserved 'hide' address) is put in it's place. The source port is changed to a random number usually in the range of 1025-65535 and sent on it's way. Then it returns the firewall knows which internal IP to put back based on the previously assigned and recorded port number. Those port assisgments are dynamic and contantly changing, so tracing old traffic back to the original internal host is.... I'm rambling...you get the idea.

I agree that the legality of these procedures are highly questionable...

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:15 PM
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Well, assuming they do have an insider, all it would take is for them to search the P2P for music/movies, and than brows the hosts... just like in regular P2P like kazaa,limewire etc... find few that host a shitloads of files and the case is done. And since the person only browsed thru the files without downloading them, they aren't breakin the law.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Fine, still not legal or ethical. Why don't I just take it upon myself to go on someones home or work network and start searching for programs I've written to make sure there's no unlicensed copies.

To sum up my ranting...when a person does something like what the RIAA is doing then it's called 'hacking', but when a corporation such as the RIAA does it then it's called justice. So my idea is this...I write a nice little Denial of Service program and begin doing port scans on the RIAA servers (of course these scans are for their own good so that I don't find any loose ones). Instead of calling it a DoS attack, we'll simply call it a 'security consultation'. Then if they do or say anything about it we can sue for obstructing something I'm sure.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:37 PM
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dude, it's not hacking when you use a LEGAL software, and do what it's supposed to do i.e. search for file, and allow you to browse what any host has. WTF do ethics have to do with anything? No one made those kids connect to the P2P network, nor host the illegaly pirated files.

and btw, DoS attack is NOT just port scanning. Get your lingo right
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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I know DoS ain't just a port scan, but one of the most common things. Ping is another popular way to cripple systems.

And if the network is private, then you can't use any software to get on it. That's the difference between college networks and those such as what emule and limewire run.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:51 PM
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Now that we are talking, what are you using for your Legal Intellectual Content downloads lately

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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
I know DoS ain't just a port scan, but one of the most common things. Ping is another popular way to cripple systems.

And if the network is private, then you can't use any software to get on it. That's the difference between college networks and those such as what emule and limewire run.
the only difference is then the colleges used a closed network. Now if i'm a student, i can let anyone on it, and it's legal. And i could let a cop use my computer and do all that i can. At that point he's not braking any laws, but if he witnesses a criminal activity, has all the right to act upon. Just like if ya let a cop in your house, and your buddy in a different room was smokin weed, since ya let him in he can bust the guy smokin weed.
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 03:39 PM
 
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I think your all missing one very special point in this situation. Internet2 is NOT PUBLIC. Meaning it is not protected by an privacy agreements. The education system owns the network and you sign an agreement saying that you will not "abuse" the connection. So it is not illegal for them to monitor whatever your doing on there network and they can just hand over anyones information if they choose to. Also that I2Hub software has to have a master server somewhere which means the information being sent and received can be tracked even though it's a direct connection to the other party, there still has to be a host communication.
Also from my understanding of the law thus far people who are downloading the stuff are not getting sued or any legal actions against them, because this by definition is not piracy. The act of sharing the files is where you can get caught so the best way to do the sharing if your wanting to is on an encrypted network such as VPN, or a secure chat program. I wouldn't share openly on IRC or I2Hub or any chat software unless it was secure or located in china. On dictionary.com it does say Piracy would include use or receipt of the files, but I don't know that it's in the law only redistribution.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 03:45 PM
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Incoming connection would still have to look for a known port. If they are using a known server with a known or common port, all they have to do is try to connect to the IP through which these port requests are being forwarded and watch for the proper protocol.

Whether accessing networks this way to obtain information for a law suit against the network owner is a legal matter I don't know.

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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 03:52 PM
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You get a court order to put a packet sniffer on the college networks and start handing out the lawsuits.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2005, 04:00 PM
 
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Class dismissed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephas
I think your all missing one very special point in this situation. Internet2 is NOT PUBLIC. Meaning it is not protected by an privacy agreements. The education system owns the network and you sign an agreement saying that you will not "abuse" the connection. So it is not illegal for them to monitor whatever your doing on there network and they can just hand over anyones information if they choose to. Also that I2Hub software has to have a master server somewhere which means the information being sent and received can be tracked even though it's a direct connection to the other party, there still has to be a host communication.
Also from my understanding of the law thus far people who are downloading the stuff are not getting sued or any legal actions against them, because this by definition is not piracy. The act of sharing the files is where you can get caught so the best way to do the sharing if your wanting to is on an encrypted network such as VPN, or a secure chat program. I wouldn't share openly on IRC or I2Hub or any chat software unless it was secure or located in china. On dictionary.com it does say Piracy would include use or receipt of the files, but I don't know that it's in the law only redistribution.
You beat me to it. I work at a university. Everything here is THE UNIVERSITIES. Nothing is private. Not even email. Without the technical jargin know this, I can go to anyone's pc and look thru their email. By law (and I know the campus lawyer here and there was a discussion on email because of that same incident) nothing is private. If it's private it shouldn't be here on campus. And it is true, as a student, or employee, you are not to use the facilities, material, equipment, etc. in an abusive way or you will be held liable. I know the tech guys here and they basically just make sure their greed doesn't get in the way. The music and movie industry have a right to come here and look at whatever if the university heads agree to it. Doesn't mean they can walk into a bathroom to make sure you're using the stall right with the seat up but hey, still, it's their property. EVERY SERVER, PC, CAMERA, ETC.

I think it sucks but it's the high school argument. Yes, you have a locker but the principal has the right to open it.

Last edited by Loki_D_Wolf; 04-12-2005 at 04:03 PM.
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