Would you trust someone - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Would you trust someone

being a control rider at a trackday if they they are not even qualified to ride in the Advance group themselves?



Chew on that and get back to me.
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post #2 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2G View Post
being a control rider at a trackday if they they are not even qualified to ride in the Advance group themselves?

Chew on that and get back to me.

No! But than I trust nobody anyway...

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post #3 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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you would have to define advanced group pace, and then it would depend on what their role in working with riders is. If they are there to only work with and provide encouragement to the slowest of the slow new people then yeah that would make sense
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post #4 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:16 AM
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If you're going to have somebody rolling through traffic looking backwards half the time and watching for unsafe riding styles yeah, I want that person to be as qualified as possible.

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post #5 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jkrueger View Post
you would have to define advanced group pace, and then it would depend on what their role in working with riders is. If they are there to only work with and provide encouragement to the slowest of the slow new people then yeah that would make sense

Define advance group pace- Well I would say someone who can handle there own on any track that they ride. They don't have to be the fastest but they have to be safe and predictable.

Role working with riders- Being a control rider in any group (advance/Int/novice)
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post #6 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:18 AM
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What is relevant is if they have the skills to teach, and if they are a patient rider. IF they can be smart, nail body position and line, and work with the slower riders in your B or Novice group, SURE!

However, if they can't be SAFE, and judge those around them well, and ride well while looking behind them, don't use them.

Remember Carol Drucker? We have had a few CRs over the years that were absolutely EXCELLENT with B group riders, yet they did not have the pace to run A group themselves.

Just my .02.

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post #7 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:18 AM
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I dont think so . I always thought that CR's are racers and or expierenced advance group riders. How can a person be a CR without being at the highest riding level ?

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post #8 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:19 AM
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you would have to define advanced group pace, and then it would depend on what their role in working with riders is. If they are there to only work with and provide encouragement to the slowest of the slow new people then yeah that would make sense
I wasn't focused on speed in my reply to Steves "advanced" more on beeing able to turn the same / right line everytime around...
I belive if someone has the right lines but not the speeds than this might also count as advance...

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post #9 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrueger View Post
you would have to define advanced group pace, and then it would depend on what their role in working with riders is. If they are there to only work with and provide encouragement to the slowest of the slow new people then yeah that would make sense
i agree with this. as stated it depends on involvement of cr to riders.
why would a trackday provider "want" someone who is not in A group
to cr ?

who's the new cr steve? wats goin on bro?

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post #10 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:26 AM
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pace and ability / skillset are much different things when it comes to being qualified for the A group. if they dont have the pace then they can still be effective as Wink pointed out. If they are lacking in skills to ride consistantly and safely then nope i wouldnt go coach with them.
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post #11 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:29 AM
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who's the new cr steve? wats goin on bro?
Spit it out...

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post #12 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STANIMAL View Post
I dont think so . I always thought that CR's are racers and or expierenced advance group riders. How can a person be a CR without being at the highest riding level ?
+1

Not to say the person doesn't have little bits of wisdom to impart to newer riders, but if you don't have the ability to be one of the best you are obviously missing a bit of knowledge somewhere, otherwise you would be doing it.

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post #13 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:32 AM
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Your pace on track really doesn't equate to being able to teach. I'm confident in my skill level on any track yet I have no business teaching anyone anything because:
no.1 I can barely speak english
no.2 I can't explain what I do on the track
no.3 most people will be intimidated by my huge fucking muscles

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post #14 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:33 AM
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+1

Not to say the person doesn't have little bits of wisdom to impart to newer riders, but if you don't have the ability to be one of the best you are obviously missing a bit of knowledge somewhere, otherwise you would be doing it.
there are those who have the skills to do everything in slow motion.

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post #15 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Performance View Post
+1

Not to say the person doesn't have little bits of wisdom to impart to newer riders, but if you don't have the ability to be one of the best you are obviously missing a bit of knowledge somewhere, otherwise you would be doing it.
I agree with CP and others. I am sure a slower than "A" rider could teach me something, but I would still find it awkward when I see him only being able to ride with "I" guys.

What pace are you Ken? :P
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post #16 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:44 AM
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I can do 18 second lap times at Blackhawk now. But I was taught by someone who was doing 2:25s, so I guess all this doesn't make sense.

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post #17 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:49 AM
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Would I trust them? Sure. As others have said, being able to go fast does not always transfer over to being able to teach someone to go fast. Every sport has coaches and people that can help develop ones abilities. Basketball for example. Can Phil Jackson help teach you how to play basketball? Yes. Can he shoot a basketball? Highly doubtful.
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post #18 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:51 AM
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^^^

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What is required to keep pace in A? Good form? Speed? Perfect line? All the above? I never really thought about it.
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post #19 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 10:55 AM
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I wouldn't trust a slow rider to teach me to go fast but I would trust them to teach me the ropes if I was a new rider. Some of us come from a no track day era where going fast was all that mattered. It seems that now days with coaches and control riders, there is more focus on race track riding fundamentals. There's seem to be quite a bit of focus on body position which is good but there's a boatload of dudes riding around in slow motion with great body position.

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post #20 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
What is relevant is if they have the skills to teach, and if they are a patient rider. IF they can be smart, nail body position and line, and work with the slower riders in your B or Novice group, SURE!

However, if they can't be SAFE, and judge those around them well, and ride well while looking behind them, don't use them.

Remember Carol Drucker? We have had a few CRs over the years that were absolutely EXCELLENT with B group riders, yet they did not have the pace to run A group themselves.

Just my .02.
Exactly This!

Carol "Mom" Drucker - she taught me a lot starting out, and gave me shit about not just turning the bike when I went to check the gravel in T-12 at Road America. I miss her being around.

I'm slower than most of the A-group out there, but no-one has bitched about getting around me. I do know that I'm faster than some CR's in other orgs, but that doesn't mean they can't help teach the novice/beginner riders. Maybe they only CR in B-group, then as the people progress due to their instruction, the faster CR's can take it from there. If they have excellent body position, and consistent lines, then they are teaching by example, and not just how fast they can go.

If the ORG trusts them, then I'll trust them, but I knew enough to ride my own ride when I was learning. It took me longer to get to A, but the end result is the same.

The only person I might be leary of is Ron Hix, because he tends to run at his AMA pace as he turns around wondering why my 12 year old bike won't keep up.

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post #21 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
What is relevant is if they have the skills to teach, and if they are a patient rider. IF they can be smart, nail body position and line, and work with the slower riders in your B or Novice group, SURE!

However, if they can't be SAFE, and judge those around them well, and ride well while looking behind them, don't use them.

Remember Carol Drucker? We have had a few CRs over the years that were absolutely EXCELLENT with B group riders, yet they did not have the pace to run A group themselves.

Just my .02.
Good points Wink. For "B" or "N" I rather have a CR that is patient and an awesome teacher who chose to stay in "I" rather than a poor teacher who rides "A" and just expects you to learn on your own.
Likewise I also see everyone's point about cr's being "A" riders and for sure could not see an "I" cr teaching a "A" rider.

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post #22 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:09 AM
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I agree with Wink.. If the person has sound advice and you are seeing an improvment in your riding level because of that advice than it works out. Once you start outpacing that CR then it's time to work with another more qualified/faster paced CR.

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post #23 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:10 AM
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As long as they are more advanced than me, sure I trust them.

Those that can't do, teach. The coach on a baseball team isn't the best player, some never even made it to the major leagues. What's important is that they know what one should do, and how to teach them.

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post #24 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket Rockets View Post
Would I trust them? Sure. As others have said, being able to go fast does not always transfer over to being able to teach someone to go fast. Every sport has coaches and people that can help develop ones abilities. Basketball for example. Can Phil Jackson help teach you how to play basketball? Yes. Can he shoot a basketball? Highly doubtful.
+1

There is a saying in sports, I don't remember it word for word but it goes something like, 'those who can't, coach'. There are a lot of athletes out there who were better coaches than they were players. Phil Jackson is a good example of that. Basically a bench warmer who was more cerebral than talented. Knew the game well but just wasn't good enough to execute it and was a better leader than player. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the most talented do not exactly make the best coaches because they relied more on their natural ability as opposed to their head. This is probably why Michael Jordan isn't a coach.

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post #25 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatFitz9 View Post
As long as they are more advanced than me, sure I trust them.

Those that can't do, teach. The coach on a baseball team isn't the best player, some never even made it to the major leagues. What's important is that they know what one should do, and how to teach them.
fooker! beat me to it!

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post #26 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket Rockets View Post
Would I trust them? Sure. As others have said, being able to go fast does not always transfer over to being able to teach someone to go fast. Every sport has coaches and people that can help develop ones abilities. Basketball for example. Can Phil Jackson help teach you how to play basketball? Yes. Can he shoot a basketball? Highly doubtful.
Phil was on the All Rookie team his first year in the NBA...I think he can teach you to shoot :P
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post #27 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 11:36 AM

 
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I have never raced at any level other than across the corn field.

I can tell you alot about what makes your bike tick and many sensible ways to save time around the track with gearing and set up.

I like to think one of the fellas most of you spend time chasing may have learned a thing or two from this less than "A" pace fella.

If imparting some sense into a new rider is this fellas forte KEEP HIM .

Just because some one is fast does not make them a better coach.Super star athletes have to learn from some one.....and most of these coaches can't play at all.

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post #28 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 12:19 PM
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aren't control riders there to slow people down, really ? yes , there is some coaching but hey , the mission is to control the pace to make the day safe for everyone .... then , if you ask me, having a slow control rider is perfectly acceptable for that type of responsibilities . hahaha

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post #29 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Don't read into this guys i am just asking a question.


There are alot of good points here. Some I agree with and some I don't.
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post #30 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-08-2010, 12:22 PM
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To quote Nick Cage playing Cameron Poe from the Blockbuster Smash Hit Movie, "Con Air":

"There are only 2 people in this world that I trust, one is me and the other is not you"

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming WOW, what a RIDE !!"
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