tire life - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
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tire life

Hey guys i was curious about how long i can use a tire at the track before i need to replace them. currently im running pilot power take offs. when i got them, there was still tons of tread left. i've done 2 track days so far and plan to do more. i read that you should change em every 2-3 track days, is that right? from my understanding, heat cycles are limited to DOT race tires right? know i shouldnt wait till i hit the wear bars..or should i?

school me on this one, greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 04:37 AM
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IMHO, if you think you need tires, buy them. Old tires suck and/or can be dangerous on the track. New rubber is cheap insurance to having a great day. And tires are much cheaper than a crash. People are always looking for take-offs at the right price, so sell yours off and put some cash towards a new set of tires. If you need help with removing your wheels, PM me, I'm in Romeoville.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 06:20 AM
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Dave has is right...... old tires sap confidence.


Besides.....


Age of the tire, number of sessions, what kind of sessions ( A - I - B ) number
of street miles, number of trips ..... all this goes into the tires age.


Wear-bars have no meaning...... I have seen good tires worn to the cords..... I
have seen bad tires with all their wear bars in great shape !

Pay attention to your tires.....when they start to wear out they will talk to you
and start to move...... when the move unpredictably it's a sign that it's time.






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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 06:48 AM
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takeoffs are a very hard thing to gauge, you have no idea what they edured before you got them

heat cycles apply to ALL tires

that said i did get 10 days out of a set of pilot power 2ct's but i bought them new and i wasnt pushing the tired to make it to 10 days, I do however pay close attention to what the bike is doing and what the tires are telling me and 10 days was the threshhold for that particular set, and its very likely illl never see that lifespan again from a set.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 06:54 AM
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I got 5 track days + 5K street miles out of my PP's. Switched to a new set before Barber. The old ones looked fine and probably would have lasted through the weekend but it was knowing I didn't have to worry about it.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:18 AM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxM86 View Post
Hey guys i was curious about how long i can use a tire at the track before i need to replace them. currently im running pilot power take offs. when i got them, there was still tons of tread left. i've done 2 track days so far and plan to do more. i read that you should change em every 2-3 track days, is that right? from my understanding, heat cycles are limited to DOT race tires right? know i shouldnt wait till i hit the wear bars..or should i?

school me on this one, greatly appreciated.
Pilot powers tend to look ok. They're not even to the wear bars yet. Yet they just don't have the grip they once did.
2-3 days? Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

You can ride them until they don't do their job any more. That job being provide traction to keep you up right.

If you can't ride them to the point where to don't grip without crashing, then go with the old phrase. When in doubt, change them out.

Get a good set of new tires, stick with that brand and learn to ride.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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thanks a lot guys! appreciate the responses. im satisfied with the pilot powers, and since i don't ride street, dont see the need for 2ct's. so ill most likely stick with that.

i know its too early to be trying out other brands as i havent ridden my PP's to their potential as a noob. but i was was wondering about dunlops q2's. on STG their about $20 difference between the regular PP's for front and rear shipped. i heard q2's have low operating temp which help them warm up pretty quick. do i not need to worry about those till i get to I or A pace? anyone with experience on both and can testify? lol
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 01:48 PM
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the dual compound tire benefits a track rider more so than an street rider since the lean required to get to the 2nd compound isnt generally acheived on the street

different brands of tires can affect the handling and geometry of your bike,

going from a PP to a PP2ct will have no geometry changes though

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:03 PM
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The 2CT is actually the same as your Pilot Power in all regards.... except it has softer
rubber on the sides of the tires. Great track tires.



Powers or 2CT's are great predictable grippy tires. When you do get to I or
low A and outride them they will fade predictably, slide predictable and give
you a ton of feedback..... you will know when it is time to go to race-dots
and warmers.



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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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oh i see. i thought the 2cts were harder on the center for longer life and had the same compound on the sides as the pp's for the grippy cornering. is it the other way around?
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxM86 View Post
... but i was was wondering about dunlops q2's. ... do i not need to worry about those till i get to I or A pace? anyone with experience on both and can testify? lol
I can tell you the Dunlop Q2's are very good tires for the price and will be fine in NESBA I group pace. I was rolling hard on the Q2's in the A group and was able to slide them very predictably with very little drama. They are good tires.

Once you get into the NESBA A group pace, you will want to step up into a real race tire like the 211GPA or 211GP NTEC's.

The Q2's will not require warmers, but any full on race tire will need warmers.

NESBA's online store, The TrackdayStore.com is currently running some good deals on the Q2's:
http://www.trackdaystore.com/Dunlop-...Set_p_925.html

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxM86 View Post
oh i see. i thought the 2cts were harder on the center for longer life and had the same compound on the sides as the pp's for the grippy cornering. is it the other way around?
the 2ct's have the same center as the PPs with softer sides than the PPs


as for the dunlops i cant say anything, no experience/knowledge
i can tell you that the pilot pures are a step above the PP2ct's though

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
I can tell you the Dunlop Q2's are very good tires for the price and will be fine in NESBA I group pace. I was rolling hard on the Q2's in the A group and was able to slide them very predictably with very little drama. They are good tires.

Once you get into the NESBA A group pace, you will want to step up into a real race tire like the 211GPA or 211GP NTEC's.

This is exactly what I was referring to......



I would rather over-ride a street-tire than under-ride a race tire.


race-dot's at B-Pace are just f&*ing scary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotx1 View Post
the 2ct's have the same center as the PPs with softer sides than the PPs


as for the dunlops i cant say anything, no experience/knowledge
i can tell you that the pilot pures are a step above the PP2ct's though
PX1 is right..... you had it backwards on the 2CT's

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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thanks again everyone for clarifying that. i really thought it was the other way around. now i know.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 07:57 PM
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Go figure I guess I have the compounds mixed up as well. I didn't realize they went softer than normal on the sides, and neither did the parts guys at the bike shops I have talked with.

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 08:08 PM
 
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I went from PP to Power Ones (not by choice, STT was out of my size in either of the PP or PP2CTs when I needed them). Very disappointed, only got three days out of the rear before it was completely bald on one side. I did do a long road trip in between track days, but I still have plenty of tread left in the middle. Fortunately STT is clearancing out the rears in my size, so I got another one just to use up the rest of the front. I'll be switching to PP2CTs next for sure.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 09:51 PM
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I have a Power Race 180 rear for sale ( track tire )

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxM86 View Post
but i was was wondering about dunlops q2's. on STG their about $20 difference between the regular PP's for front and rear shipped. i heard q2's have low operating temp which help them warm up pretty quick. do i not need to worry about those till i get to I or A pace? anyone with experience on both and can testify? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
I can tell you the Dunlop Q2's are very good tires for the price and will be fine in NESBA I group pace. I was rolling hard on the Q2's in the A group and was able to slide them very predictably with very little drama. They are good tires.

Once you get into the NESBA A group pace, you will want to step up into a real race tire like the 211GPA or 211GP NTEC's.

The Q2's will not require warmers, but any full on race tire will need warmers.

NESBA's online store, The TrackdayStore.com is currently running some good deals on the Q2's:
http://www.trackdaystore.com/Dunlop-...Set_p_925.html
Rex, if you are thinking of getting the Q2s, get them. They are a street and track day tire and as Ron Hix said, will be fine in NESBA I pace and MORE than enough at B and N pace for NESBA and STT respectively.

I just recently put on a set and have done 3 track days with them. 1 at BHF last Wednesday at a Novice pace and 2 at Barber just this past weekend at an Intermediate equivalent pace with STTs Novice group. In short, they held up very well especially in the heat this weekend at Barber but started to feel them slip in the afternoon in the 2nd day however, it was hardly noticeable. I like to "stear with the rear" and gas it in the turns and they stuck as opposed to the BT016s I previously had where I could feel them spin out when I was gassing it in a corner.

One other thing I want to mention about this tire is that it has a tall profile where the sides of the tires are nearly vertical which is good for grip on the sides but you will be hard pressed to get these tires worn out to the edge even if you tried and believe me I TRIED! I had my bike cranked over on both sides and I still had space to go. On my old Bridgestone BT016s, the sides of the tires would have already been eaten up. They also turn in a little quicker than my old Bridgestone BT016s.

If and when I feel up to it, I will write a review on them. Here are some pics of the tires from this past weekend. Keep in mind these tires were brand new about a week ago and have only been on the track and 3 times at that. From what I can tell, they still have some days left in them.






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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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damn erz them tires look well worn! how many more track days you think you can get out of those. the sides look like tehy still have some meat left in them. do you go by how the feel, like you said they were starting to slip, the 2nd day at barber, is that an indication for you to be time to change them even though it looks like theres still life left in them.

and yeah im still debating between dunlops and michelins. cant afford the pirelli track day tires just yet. i read that the q2's have a low operating temp so they warm up really quick. will have to see. i plan on doing 2 more days, this year, hopefully i can make more and be able to test out a new tire.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 06:58 AM
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Careful enutz, if you feel the rear moving as you gas it in the corner you probably aren't being quite smooth enough on the throttle, or aren't standing the bike up as you apply the throttle. At that pace, on a 600, on those tires you really shouldn't be feeling any movement from the tires after 3 trackdays.

(Also what cold rear tire pressure are you running, if it's too high that might explain why you aren't using the edge of the tire and why it's not sticking as well).

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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
Careful enutz, if you feel the rear moving as you gas it in the corner you probably aren't being quite smooth enough on the throttle, or aren't standing the bike up as you apply the throttle. At that pace, on a 600, on those tires you really shouldn't be feeling any movement from the tires after 3 trackdays.

hes trying to be like pedrosa don't rossi tap the rear break a little to get the rear around?
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 08:30 AM

 
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Define moving around. Skipping and sliding sideways. The tire spinning and the bike coming around? The rear end squating but not breaking the rear tire loose.

Feel is great. But what are you feeling?
It's like, The rear end is spinning....
Did it squat first? Did it just spin right up. Was there to much throttle application, was there not enough swing arm angle. Lots of variables come into things. The track is the best place to view and correct these issues.

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
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damn erz them tires look well worn! how many more track days you think you can get out of those. the sides look like tehy still have some meat left in them. do you go by how the feel, like you said they were starting to slip, the 2nd day at barber, is that an indication for you to be time to change them even though it looks like theres still life left in them.
.


Those tire look like they have 1 hard session on them.....

Seriously..... lot's of meat left ...... nicely scrubbed in.

That doe's not mean they are good or bad - see early posts about grip.



Agree with GK - if you feel the rear move you have an issue......
either setup, throttle technique or body position / corner process.


For the average corner, you should only come back to throttle once,
smoothly and deliberately and you do not begin to accelerate until
after you have started to decrease lean angle.



Fix it before it high-sides you to the moon.

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
Careful enutz, if you feel the rear moving as you gas it in the corner you probably aren't being quite smooth enough on the throttle, or aren't standing the bike up as you apply the throttle. At that pace, on a 600, on those tires you really shouldn't be feeling any movement from the tires after 3 trackdays.

(Also what cold rear tire pressure are you running, if it's too high that might explain why you aren't using the edge of the tire and why it's not sticking as well).
i try to make a conscious effort to be smooth with the throttle and i have been told by the track coaches that i'm very smooth but who knows, you could right. it was in the afternoon, it was HOT, 98 degrees with a heat index of a hundred and something and i was exhausted. so i probably wasn't being as smooth with the throttle as i should be. the thing is, i only felt it break away from me once out of those 3 days of using them so i don't want to give anyone the impression that i was sliding out of control at almost every turn at the end of the day.

as far as tire pressure, i was running 32 up front and 30 rear which is what the dunlop rep at bhf last wednesday suggested. actually i think he suggested 32 for both front and rear but i decided to run it a little lower in the rear.

as for not using the edge of the tire, there was another person who did a review on these tires using the same bike and he said the same thing where he had about 2mm of tire left to go before he hit the edge. the sides of these tires are pretty steep for a street tire. here is the review with pictures and you will see what i'm talking about: http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42940

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkotlin View Post
Define moving around. Skipping and sliding sideways. The tire spinning and the bike coming around? The rear end squating but not breaking the rear tire loose.

Feel is great. But what are you feeling?
It's like, The rear end is spinning....
Did it squat first? Did it just spin right up. Was there to much throttle application, was there not enough swing arm angle. Lots of variables come into things. The track is the best place to view and correct these issues.
i guess the only way for me to describe it was that i felt it break away slightly outward as i was gassing it which most likely is me not being smooth with the throttle and body position more than the tires giving out. i also ride at the novice/intermediate level and i'm not as consistent as some of the faster I and A riders. that being said, they were very forgiving when i wasn't being as smooth as i should have been but did eventually break away at one point.

like i said above, i only really felt it once with these tires. with my other tires, i felt the rear spin right up every time i gassed it out of the carousel at gingerman. but that could have been that the profile of bt016 isn't as aggressive as the q2, my throttle control, and body positioning. it could have been a number of things. i'm not good enough or fast enough yet to be able to know enough to make that judgement yet.

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 09:30 AM
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Sportbike: 09 Kawi ZX6R, 75' Yamaha RD250, '13 KTM 350 SX-F, '05 Yamaha Zuma
Years Riding: Not nearly long enough
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In that case I wouldn't worry about it to much, but maybe pay closer attention to how you're using the throttle next time out, especially if you start getting some sliding on corner exits, highsides hurt!

Remember, even if a control rider says you're riding smooth they can't actually feel your hand on the throttle so be careful

Shitty Pass Racing #513
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-27-2010, 10:55 PM
MajorLeagueRider
 
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 117
Location: Chicago IL
Sportbike: Buell
Years Riding: 06/30/2007
How you found us: Visionsports
  
im using the 2CT's they are running great...not the best when wet though, but then again I am a noob....

3.5 trackdays and about 2k in rode miles....i think after putnam this weekend. they might be done

you cant ride it like a 1000
you cant ride it like a 600
you just gotta ride it like a BUELL

-Taylor Knapp
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