Slipper Clutch...a must? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Slipper Clutch...a must?

Probably been threaded before but how important is a slipper clutch at the track? Is it a must? Is it just nice? More important for an advanced rider?

Looking to by a sport bike I can use at the track 3-4 times a year and on the street as well.

Will have just under $5k to spend. Can't decide what to buy. Not doing the inexpensive dedicated track bike yet - only 1 day under my belt, and I'm hooked, but I like having 2 streetable bikes...

Looking at a Daytone 675, which I'm actually lusting after, but it does not have a slipper clutch. I assume one could be added...what's it cost to add a slipper clutch to a bike?

ANyway, how important is it to have a slipper clutch on the track? Assuming I'm an average rider at best, will I miss the blip and lock the rear? If so, am I going down for sure?

And what bikes have slipper clutches standard? I know GSXR's from 2006- have slippers...what else has a slipper standard in the 600-750cc size?

Can't decide what to do. May move fast, as I plan to head to BHF on 9/11, with cash I won't have until 9/7...

ANY suggestions helpful.

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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:20 PM
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It's certainly not required - especially if you know how to rev match your downshifts
They are pretty expensive to add

I know I am not one of "the experts" but I would say you will find more of an improvement in your riding buying 2 more weekends at the track than the slipper clutch will provide

Last edited by iamnotgreg; 08-31-2010 at 04:25 PM.
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:21 PM
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I dont carry enough pace to answer that, but I do know that I have had the back end bouncing enough a couple of times that if it it woulda settled a second later I woulda went lawn mowing.

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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:25 PM
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Slipper clutches are so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.


They aren't a necessity by any stretch of the imagination, but they're really nice to have. I wouldn't worry about locking the rear without one though. You can always use your left index and middle fingers as a "poor man's slipper clutch" if you fuck up your downshift blip.

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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
I dont carry enough pace to answer that, but I do know that I have had the back end bouncing enough a couple of times that if it it woulda settled a second later I woulda went lawn mowing.
I have never ridden with Rider14, but chances are with the amount of time you have on the track you are carrying a faster pace than he is right now...

So while someone like Hix or DanO may be carrying a much greater pace - they are probably pretty far removed from where he is now and what they need at their level is probably a tad different than what he is looking for on his second day
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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:31 PM
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Like Rob said, they are nice to have, but you don't need it. I'm used to not having it on my 675. I was taught to blip the throttle from the get go and made it a habit. Its no big deal.

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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider14 View Post

ANyway, how important is it to have a slipper clutch on the track? Assuming I'm an average rider at best, will I miss the blip and lock the rear? If so, am I going down for sure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
I dont carry enough pace to answer that, but I do know that I have had the back end bouncing enough a couple of times that if it woulda settled a second later I woulda went lawn mowing.
Nice to have, yes. Going down for sure, No. Our pace - probably not a NECESSITY.

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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:38 PM
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Slipper clutches are so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.
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I would get some good boots first before a slipper clutch.

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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:44 PM
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in the price range your looking for you can pick up a 06+ R6 or GSXR which will come with slipper clutches, I learned early to blip the throttle / rev match and it made a big diff. on corner entry with a bike that didn't have a slipper 04 636, RC51 (previous bikes)

When I jumped on a bike with a slipper clutch it was pretty cool and felt smoother going into the corner, it gave me something less to worry about and allowed me to focus my efforts elsewhere. I still rev match out of habbit even with a slipper.. I say DO IT (sorry Kegger)

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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:46 PM
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I never had any use for one, riding at an advanced pace. Don't wish I had one. If I had a bike with one on, I guess that would be fine too.

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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:49 PM
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Seriously, you can develop your skills so that its not an issue.

Dont they also go by the name "cheater clutch"?

"When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve your situation, but it will end the suspense."
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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:51 PM
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No, but would be nice to have.

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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTRC51 View Post
in the price range your looking for you can pick up a 06+ R6 or GSXR which will come with slipper clutches, I learned early to blip the throttle / rev match and it made a big diff. on corner entry with a bike that didn't have a slipper 04 636, RC51 (previous bikes)

When I jumped on a bike with a slipper clutch it was pretty cool and felt smoother going into the corner, it gave me something less to worry about and allowed me to focus my efforts elsewhere. I still rev match out of habbit even with a slipper.. I say DO IT (sorry Kegger)
If he was interested in those bikes and had the choice of one with one or the year before .. for about the same money I'd say go for it.

But right off he listed his budget and the bike he wanted, non oem slippers are expensive.
That's why I said it.

I have had 3 track bikes - only my most recent one came with a slipper clutch. I think it has saved me from making a dumb mistake one time, but really I don't see how it's required for someone doing a couple days a year and really running on a budget.

Not having a slipper clutch requires you to learn to shift gears properly - he isn't racing he is doing this for fun and to become a better rider..

Just thought I would defend my point since I always have to be right

http://www.oncycles.com/catalog.asp?pn=DTP00020
STM Slipper for the 675 $1100

http://www.indysuperbike.com/custome...oductid=161005
Yoyodyne for the 675 - $850 bucks

I think 4 - 6 more track days would be a better way of spending that 900-1200$ (probably a bit higher all told installed)
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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:03 PM
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Slipper clutches are a Bandaid.
At best, they cover up poor down-shifting habits.

If you end up getting a bike with a slipper clutch and you rely on it...
Then you could develop poor habits, making it difficult to ride a bike without a slipper clutch on the track.

If you get a slipper, to cover up the mistakes you make now and again, thats a diferent story.

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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:07 PM
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Nice to have. I'm pretty sure mine bailed me out when I clicked down one to many gears going into a corner. The one and only time I "backed it in". The stock GSXR slipper clutch isn't the same as an aftermarket unit. They call it something like a back torque limiting clutch. Haven't really read about them since 07, so I'm a lil fuzzy on the details.
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post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:11 PM
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Well I ride a duc 1098 which has some huge motor breaking. I does not have a slipper clutch and I was actually looking into getting one. But I realized that for the last 3 years on the street riding hard, I never really messed up a down shift.
Two weeks a go I rode it the first time very hard on the track and was guessing I will have a ton or rear wheel chatter, but I think all in all I broke the rear loose once during a downshift, but that is me with some weight on the bike and prolly also not the fastest one out there.

ride your bike, see how it feels and go from there...

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post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:11 PM
 
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It's preference. I didn't have one for the first few years I raced, but locking up the rear wheel doesn't matter when the rear is off the ground going into one. I also had to replace the clutch plates and fibers each season.... just a coincidence.

you do get used to the back wheel locking up if you don't rev match, but eventually you get sick of lining up that stupid case cover when your swapping out plates. I put a slipper clutch in my R6 last year during a race weekend. Haven't had to replace a clutch since. but it wasn't necessary.

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post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:19 PM
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keep the tuano and learn how to downshift
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post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:22 PM
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Watch the 98 AMA superstock champ control the clutch



And when CCS finally collapses, you racers with bikes that were not factory equiped with slippers will be in a WERA SB class if you run a slipper

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post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:30 PM
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Like others have said, it's a nice feature but certainly not critical.

In the grand scheme of things, I would not put it towards the top of the list in things I'd look for on a bike that will see the track.

I'd put far more emphasis on finding a bike with nice suspension & brake upgrades.

Heck, for how long he's been sitting on it, I'd call Ken at CP & see if he'll part with Paul's R6 for mid to high 4s.
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post #21 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 05:40 PM
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Learn to downshift properly first..... then add the mechanical aids.


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post #22 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 06:19 PM
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imho you dont need it, my 03 1000 did not have one and i only had problems when i didnt blip the throttle enough the rear would bounce

i looked at them once and i think i remember them being like 1200

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post #23 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 06:27 PM
 
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imho you dont need it, my 03 1000 did not have one and i only had problems when i didnt blip the throttle enough the rear would bounce

i looked at them once and i think i remember them being like 1200
I got a new STM on a mid-season close out for like 3 or 400$. And if you're replaced clutches already they are a breeze to install. I think I had it done in 45 minutes or less. but totally personal preference and not needed. It didn't really change my times much, but I like to wait till the last possible second to let off the brakes, sometimes even trail brake into a corner, kick it down 3 gears, let the front plant and put it into the corner. blipping just seemed like it took time away from going from full throttle to full brake and having the bike loose never bothered me. of course I'm slow and can only manage a 1:14 and 15's at bhf. if I blipped and added 50 hp I just may find those last 5 seconds.

Last edited by Superspud needs his med's; 08-31-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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post #24 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpud View Post
I got a new STM on a mid-season close out for like 3 or 400$. And if you're replaced clutches already they are a breeze to install. I think I had it done in 45 minutes or less. but totally personal preference and not needed. It didn't really change my times much, but I like to wait till the last possible second to let off the brakes, sometimes even trail brake into a corner, kick it down 3 gears, let the front plant and put it into the corner. blipping just seemed like it took time away from going from full throttle to full brake and having the bike loose never bothered me. of course I'm slow and can only manage a 1:14 and 15's at bhf. if I blipped and added 50 hp I just may find those last 5 seconds.
slow... wanna give me a tow around on the 11th adn 12th?
youll have to slow down a bit for me though, best ive seen is a 1:25

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post #25 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 07:01 PM
 
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slowing down isn't an issue, I'm just not sure I'm the best teacher. I try teaching my gf every trackday we go to and I feel like we're not making rapid improvement. She's faster on the street from following me but on the track it all seems to go out the window.

If I make it out one of those days I can show you some lines. at bhf pin the throttle coming out of one and don't let up until T3, run the appex of two right into 3 and you should save some time.
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post #26 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 07:53 PM
 
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yes yes the good 'ol slipper clutch question....lol

I not a big fan of slipper clutches. Actually I hate the stock slipper yamaha clutches...so I put STMs in all my bikes. I have them set up so they do NOT slip. (I put the stiffest back limiting spring STM offers)....they still slip slightly but it doesn't free wheel. Plus I have quite a bit of "engine brake" applied with the kit box under decel. I slip the clutch with my fingers on decel. I don't use the rear brake on corner entry(which I really should start but I guess it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks) but I do use the the clutch (w/ engine drag) to set the rear end of the bike. I do use the rear brake on starts and a lot of time mid-corner to change the swing arm angle. That just me...I'm not saying it the right way to do it, it's just how I do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian_13 View Post
Slipper clutches are a Bandaid.
At best, they cover up poor down-shifting habits.

If you end up getting a bike with a slipper clutch and you rely on it...
Then you could develop poor habits, making it difficult to ride a bike without a slipper clutch on the track.

If you get a slipper, to cover up the mistakes you make now and again, thats a diferent story.

-X
agreed....if you rely on a slipper clutch you'll never understand how the engine drag can effect your bike. Plus it teaches you to be lazy an not rev match....

You need to rev match for the most part...Here's an example...I was at Indy this last weekend...just inside of T1....even Dani Pedrosa and Ben Spies rev match their bikes going into T2...Those guys have the access to the best "slipper clutches" made and electronics....just take a sec to think about that.

I guess the moral of the story...don't base you bike decision on whether or not it has a slipper clutch. It's really a sales pitch...most of the newer bikes come w/ slipper clutches of some sort these days...(keep in mind kawi has been putting slipper clutches in their bikes longer then a lot of people one this board have been alive...lol).

Slipper clutches are cool if you're trying to get your bike side -ways into a corner....

So to answer your questions no it's not a must.
post #27 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dano5150 View Post
yes yes the good 'ol slipper clutch question....lol

I not a big fan of slipper clutches. Actually I hate the stock slipper yamaha clutches...so I put STMs in all my bikes. I have them set up so they do NOT slip. (I put the stiffest back limiting spring STM offers)....they still slip slightly but it doesn't free wheel. Plus I have quite a bit of "engine brake" applied with the kit box under decel. I slip the clutch with my fingers on decel. I don't use the rear brake on corner entry(which I really should start but I guess it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks) but I do use the the clutch (w/ engine drag) to set the rear end of the bike. I do use the rear brake on starts and a lot of time mid-corner to change the swing arm angle. That just me...I'm not saying it the right way to do it, it's just how I do it.


agreed....if you rely on a slipper clutch you'll never understand how the engine drag can effect your bike. Plus it teaches you to be lazy an not rev match....

You need to rev match for the most part...Here's an example...I was at Indy this last weekend...just inside of T1....even Dani Pedrosa and Ben Spies rev match their bikes going into T2...Those guys have the access to the best "slipper clutches" made and electronics....just take a sec to think about that.

I guess the moral of the story...don't base you bike decision on whether or not it has a slipper clutch. It's really a sales pitch...most of the newer bikes come w/ slipper clutches of some sort these days...(keep in mind kawi has been putting slipper clutches in their bikes longer then a lot of people one this board have been alive...lol).

Slipper clutches are cool if you're trying to get your bike side -ways into a corner....

So to answer your questions no it's not a must.


and thus it has been spoken and so shall it be.
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post #28 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 08:36 PM
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2006+ gixxer 600 or 750 Done. Already has it just in case and are killer track bikes anyhow.

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post #29 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dano5150 View Post
yes yes the good 'ol slipper clutch question....lol

I not a big fan of slipper clutches. Actually I hate the stock slipper yamaha clutches...so I put STMs in all my bikes. I have them set up so they do NOT slip. (I put the stiffest back limiting spring STM offers)....they still slip slightly but it doesn't free wheel. Plus I have quite a bit of "engine brake" applied with the kit box under decel. I slip the clutch with my fingers on decel. I don't use the rear brake on corner entry(which I really should start but I guess it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks) but I do use the the clutch (w/ engine drag) to set the rear end of the bike. I do use the rear brake on starts and a lot of time mid-corner to change the swing arm angle. That just me...I'm not saying it the right way to do it, it's just how I do it.


agreed....if you rely on a slipper clutch you'll never understand how the engine drag can effect your bike. Plus it teaches you to be lazy an not rev match....

You need to rev match for the most part...Here's an example...I was at Indy this last weekend...just inside of T1....even Dani Pedrosa and Ben Spies rev match their bikes going into T2...Those guys have the access to the best "slipper clutches" made and electronics....just take a sec to think about that.

I guess the moral of the story...don't base you bike decision on whether or not it has a slipper clutch. It's really a sales pitch...most of the newer bikes come w/ slipper clutches of some sort these days...(keep in mind kawi has been putting slipper clutches in their bikes longer then a lot of people one this board have been alive...lol).

Slipper clutches are cool if you're trying to get your bike side -ways into a corner....

So to answer your questions no it's not a must.
every once in a while you read something on here that just blows your mind and today - that was it.
Damn.
I know I have an easy 10-15% more speed in me - and after that i really am going to need to go back to the drawing board and learn things at another level.. Reading this was eye opening.. I don't even know that I even fully understand all of the physics involved in what you just posted there (I'd read about this and or that before - but you put it all together in a way that says "I understand this" and for that : : :

Just damn. I knew there must have been some reason you were so damn fast. Often it seems it's just balls.. Seems to me like you are using your brain too. Wow.
Post of the day.
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post #30 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-31-2010, 08:53 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Naperville IL
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Location: Naperville IL
Sportbike: 08 R6 , CRF250R
Years Riding: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger View Post
I dont carry enough pace to answer that, but I do know that I have had the back end bouncing enough a couple of times that if it it woulda settled a second later I woulda went lawn mowing.
that sounds more like a suspension issue

CCS 787(ex). 08r6
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