1st Track Day - Blackhawk - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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1st Track Day - Blackhawk

First couple of sessions as Intro rider were pretty cool.

The last four sessions of the day were F#CKING AWESOME!

I made monumental improvements throughout the day thanks to Greg, Mark, Dani, Noland, Steve and Kim (CR) coaching me. Thank you SO much! You made my day go from trying this sport to becoming addicted.

Everything came together in the last session, and I was amazed how effortless taking turns became (and the speed I could maintain!) when I did what people told me to do. Just as important, I tried not to do what people told me not to do.

Unfortunately, I crashed in the grass (minimal damage) the last lap of the last session. I was pushing it as hard as I could, and my RC51 was happy to oblige. What an amazing bike!

Thanks to Turn One racing from Rockford who got my bike through Tech. Joe and his staff did a great job getting me ready in a short period of time.

Thanks to the NESBA staff who provided helpful advice and all their support throughout the day. Without you volunteering your time, we couldn't be out there on the track having fun and staying safe.

Most of all, thank you to my wife and daughter who stayed throughout the day while I fulfilled a lifelong dream. This would never have happened without all of your love and support. You're the best!

I hope to see everyone on the track again!

Regards,
Mark
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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 08:49 AM
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It was good to see you out there, even if you did pass me on the grass at the turn 6d kink.

Welcome to the addiction. Coming to Putnam in October?

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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 08:59 AM
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I felt like it was my first trackday

Welcome to the sport, see ya out there soon

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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Originally Posted by beac83 View Post
It was good to see you out there, even if you did pass me on the grass at the turn 6d kink.

Welcome to the addiction. Coming to Putnam in October?
Dani and I were talking about going to Gingerman (sp?) in October. I'm definitely interested to get out again.

The weather is going to get colder before it gets warmer, so I'd like to get out before it gets too cold. Too many crashes early in the morning due to the cold and rain washing the rubber off the track.

Regards,
Mark
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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Originally Posted by beac83 View Post
It was good to see you out there, even if you did pass me on the grass at the turn 6d kink.

Welcome to the addiction. Coming to Putnam in October?
BTW, that grassy area is a short cut!
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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 12:45 PM
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Ever since Saturday on the drive home I was thinking "I need to talk to Mark about putting up a thread here about his first track day"

You did great (up until that little mishap 2nd to last lap, but hey - at least you got to ride all day before you binned it

I am really disappointed in myself for crashing out like I did. I knew the track was a bit less grippy than normal, and i know my head totally wasn't in the game. Normally I go by that rule of if you feel like you should get off the track trust your gut and just do it - this time I didn't.

I have to go now had more to say but got called away

congrats on the great day and great improvements and welcome to the addiction

btw.. passing in the grass is for nascar
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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceboympk View Post
BTW, that grassy area is a short cut!
I'm just glad you didn't lose it there. You were rolling real good and had about 15 mph on me. Gotta watch your closing speeds and plan ahead so those moments can be avoided.

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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 06:41 PM
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Congrats! and welcome to our extended family!!

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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 08:04 PM
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Mark,
It was great to meet you. You looked like I suspect we all do on your first day at the track. I giggled like a little school girl for my entire first day and for a couple of days afterward.

I also echo the thanks to Turn One. I needed that brake line repaired so I could get back out and I didn't have any fluid or the tools to bleed the lines. Thanks again!

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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Mark,
It was great to meet you. You looked like I suspect we all do on your first day at the track. I giggled like a little school girl for my entire first day and for a couple of days afterward.

I also echo the thanks to Turn One. I needed that brake line repaired so I could get back out and I didn't have any fluid or the tools to bleed the lines. Thanks again!
Chad,

Right back at you! It was a lot of fun riding with you and I look forward to riding with you again.

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Congrats! and welcome to our extended family!!
Thanks Brian! I hope to someday contribute more than I receive.

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 09:44 PM
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Glad you had a great first day!! Welcome to the addiction!!

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post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Quote:
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Glad you had a great first day!! Welcome to the addiction!!
Thank you, and thanks for your coaching advice to not make mid-turn corrections.

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 11:24 PM

 
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Glad you enjoyed yourself despite the get off. It was a great weekend. Hope to see you back out there again soon and frequently. Let us know if you have any other questions.

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post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Glad you enjoyed yourself despite the get off. It was a great weekend. Hope to see you back out there again soon and frequently. Let us know if you have any other questions.
Greg,

Thanks!

I do have one question: When I was coming out of the apex on turn #3, I hit the candy stripe at the end of the turn. I hit that apex late in order to set up turn #4 which was recommended to me during the mid-day session over lunch. I know that advice was right because it totally worked for me the rest of the day.

Kim (CR) told me (and I know she's right) not to make a mid-turn correction.

So, my question to you is what should I do if I see I'm going to hit the candy stripe? A friend of mine gave me some advice (I'm sure he's right too) after I explained to him what happened, but I'd like to get your opinion too.

I was really leaning into turn #3, and I maintained a lot of speed coming out of it. I had less than a second to respond because I realized I was going to hit the candy stripe at the very end of the turn, so I didn't have a lot of response time.

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #16 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceboympk View Post
Greg,

Thanks!

I do have one question: When I was coming out of the apex on turn #3, I hit the candy stripe at the end of the turn. I hit that apex late in order to set up turn #4 which was recommended to me during the mid-day session over lunch. I know that advice was right because it totally worked for me the rest of the day.

Kim (CR) told me (and I know she's right) not to make a mid-turn correction.

So, my question to you is what should I do if I see I'm going to hit the candy stripe? A friend of mine gave me some advice (I'm sure he's right too) after I explained to him what happened, but I'd like to get your opinion too.

I was really leaning into turn #3, and I maintained a lot of speed coming out of it. I had less than a second to respond because I realized I was going to hit the candy stripe at the very end of the turn, so I didn't have a lot of response time.

Regards,
Mark
The last part of my "don't make mid-turn corrections" feedback was "...unless your initial input puts you significantly off line (including off track)." If your line is putting you into a place you don't want to be, make a correction as smoothly as possible. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough during our conversation.

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post #17 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 09:00 AM

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceboympk View Post
Greg,

Thanks!

I do have one question: When I was coming out of the apex on turn #3, I hit the candy stripe at the end of the turn. I hit that apex late in order to set up turn #4 which was recommended to me during the mid-day session over lunch. I know that advice was right because it totally worked for me the rest of the day.

Kim (CR) told me (and I know she's right) not to make a mid-turn correction.

So, my question to you is what should I do if I see I'm going to hit the candy stripe? A friend of mine gave me some advice (I'm sure he's right too) after I explained to him what happened, but I'd like to get your opinion too.

I was really leaning into turn #3, and I maintained a lot of speed coming out of it. I had less than a second to respond because I realized I was going to hit the candy stripe at the very end of the turn, so I didn't have a lot of response time.

Regards,
Mark
I'm assuming you're talking about the one of the two curbs that you come to before the the bus stop.

You'll going to have to make an input to avoid hitting them. Then next lap, make a change in line or throttle application to avoid the situation. As you get more skill, you can use the head and upper body along with the throttle to refine your line so you go exactly where you want. But that just comes with time, experience and learning from doing it wrong.

When you need to make a change to avoid something, you need to make the change. Hopefully if you need to make a change you were using good body position and smooth inputs. Using good body position leaves you some room for error on lean angle, just in case you have to do things outside the norm.

Sometimes if you can't avoid the curb and you're going to catch a little bit of it, relax and let the bike ride over the edge of it a little. I was actually trying to emphasize line and using the whole track to Power House. I came through 6a, and on the exit, jumped the curb on to the access road. Then turned in, dropped my head to open the throttle and drive the exit and drove off the inside of apex through the grass. Talk about using the whole track! That may have been a bit more then I planned.

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VinylSaurusRex.com - Cyclepath Racing - Safety First Racing - SMR Components - Apexjunkie.com - Yamaha Champions Riding School
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post #18 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 09:02 AM
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To emphasis kim's point, if you need to correct, do it! Don't run off the track cause you want to stay smooth :lol:

I think the point she's making is you need to plan your corner so you can get through it on the correct line without corrections. The danger with a correction mid corner is you're suddenly asking for more from the tires, the more abrupt that correction, the more likely the bike is going to get upset. If you have to correct, like kim said, be smooth and careful about it as possible, don't just jerk on the controls to bring yourself back where you think you should be, do as little as possible while still keeping yourself safe and on track. With practice you'll find yourself getting it right from the start more and more.

Glad you had fun out there, come on out and ride with us again.

Shitty Pass Racing #513
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post #19 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 10:11 AM
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Mark chances are Anne has most of the pics since I let her use my lens most of the day - I have a few. I'll get her pics as soon as I can.

In the meantime















There are a lot more here
http://www.gregconsier.com/Motorcycl...96349441_q7zTf
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post #20 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 10:48 AM
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Nice shots!

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post #21 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 01:36 PM
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Mark, it awesome meeting you & pitting together!!!! Sorry about the get-off. Hope your thumb has recovered.
Your wife & daughter were most charming.

Many thanks to Kim for helping me figure out the kink & turn 7, & all other much needed & valuable advice on apexes.I went though those with much more confidence for the rest of the day.

To quote a guy from Peoria(my rabbit in the afternoon): "Kim has a way of explaining things in a way that I really get it."
From another guy: " She targeted my problem areas . It's a gift."

Thanks Greg for all the pics! Besides being great quality, they are a huge learning tool for me. Amazing to see how far I am off the apex of some laps compared to the CRs & other faster people. Can't wait to go back!

Thanks to Kegger for grabbing my raffle t shirt, & for all the hilarity, including Morrand, Steve & Germany. You guys are hysterical!!!!!


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post #22 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
Mark chances are Anne has most of the pics since I let her use my lens most of the day - I have a few. I'll get her pics as soon as I can.

In the meantime
Greg,

Thanks for all the great shots! Adding to my collection.

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #23 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deefib View Post
Mark, it awesome meeting you & pitting together!!!! Sorry about the get-off. Hope your thumb has recovered.
Your wife & daughter were most charming.

Many thanks to Kim for helping me figure out the kink & turn 7, & all other much needed & valuable advice on apexes.I went though those with much more confidence for the rest of the day.

To quote a guy from Peoria(my rabbit in the afternoon): "Kim has a way of explaining things in a way that I really get it."
From another guy: " She targeted my problem areas . It's a gift."

Thanks Greg for all the pics! Besides being great quality, they are a huge learning tool for me. Amazing to see how far I am off the apex of some laps compared to the CRs & other faster people. Can't wait to go back!

Thanks to Kegger for grabbing my raffle t shirt, & for all the hilarity, including Morrand, Steve & Germany. You guys are hysterical!!!!!
Dani,

Thank you for being such a great riding partner! You being there made my wife's and our daughter's day!

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #24 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim View Post
The last part of my "don't make mid-turn corrections" feedback was "...unless your initial input puts you significantly off line (including off track)." If your line is putting you into a place you don't want to be, make a correction as smoothly as possible. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough during our conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkotlin View Post
I'm assuming you're talking about the one of the two curbs that you come to before the the bus stop.

You'll going to have to make an input to avoid hitting them. Then next lap, make a change in line or throttle application to avoid the situation. As you get more skill, you can use the head and upper body along with the throttle to refine your line so you go exactly where you want. But that just comes with time, experience and learning from doing it wrong.

When you need to make a change to avoid something, you need to make the change. Hopefully if you need to make a change you were using good body position and smooth inputs. Using good body position leaves you some room for error on lean angle, just in case you have to do things outside the norm.

Sometimes if you can't avoid the curb and you're going to catch a little bit of it, relax and let the bike ride over the edge of it a little. I was actually trying to emphasize line and using the whole track to Power House. I came through 6a, and on the exit, jumped the curb on to the access road. Then turned in, dropped my head to open the throttle and drive the exit and drove off the inside of apex through the grass. Talk about using the whole track! That may have been a bit more then I planned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
To emphasis kim's point, if you need to correct, do it! Don't run off the track cause you want to stay smooth :lol:

I think the point she's making is you need to plan your corner so you can get through it on the correct line without corrections. The danger with a correction mid corner is you're suddenly asking for more from the tires, the more abrupt that correction, the more likely the bike is going to get upset. If you have to correct, like kim said, be smooth and careful about it as possible, don't just jerk on the controls to bring yourself back where you think you should be, do as little as possible while still keeping yourself safe and on track. With practice you'll find yourself getting it right from the start more and more.

Glad you had fun out there, come on out and ride with us again.
All are excellent pieces of advice! Thanks so much for your coaching because I'll improve by incorporating it into my next track day!

Speaking of which, when is our next track day? I need to get a clutch handle and bend my left rearset back into position before the next track day.

Gingerman in October? Can someone (Dani) help me get there? I don't have a trailer or a hitch on my Xterra. I'll help cover the costs for gas money and hotel room(s).

I'd like a similar experience to BHF, especially if the CR's are riding in front and behind me so I can see what I'm supposed to do, and have the CR behind me letting me know what I did right/wrong.

Sounds like a riding class????

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #25 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 04:38 PM
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Mark,

Basically what you are asking if they could do is what they generally do every track day. They are coaches and they will keep an eye on you and pull you off to give you feedback pointers and tips.
That's why I was really clear that this isn't racing, think of it as school

The Gingerman day in October is STT - It's a totally different organization.

Side note - we'll talk about cameras, I have found that having a camera on the back of your bike recording you is about the most valuable add on you can put on - the camera doesn't lie and it's not subjective - it shows you your riding style, form, and lines accurately. It also lets you review the footage when you are able to really think about the what's and why's of what you did (like I am right now, "why am I sliding? what can I learn from this sliding? How can I not slide like this anymore?" ) Last of all it also gives you something to show the coaches and have them be able to point out things such as "you should have turned here, or see how your shoulders are crossed etc..."
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post #26 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 04:45 PM
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Location: Northlake, IL 60164
Posts: 25,074
Location: Northlake, IL 60164
Sportbike: Trackdayz "I" bike!
Years Riding: since last year
How you found us: In a fortune cookie
           
Looks like you had a good time after all. Glad to hear it.

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post #27 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oak Park
Posts: 33
Location: Oak Park
Sportbike: RC51 Track Bike, BMW K1200RS, Suzuki LC1500
Years Riding: 25 years
How you found us: IAMNOTGREG
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotgreg View Post
Mark,

Basically what you are asking if they could do is what they generally do every track day. They are coaches and they will keep an eye on you and pull you off to give you feedback pointers and tips.
That's why I was really clear that this isn't racing, think of it as school

The Gingerman day in October is STT - It's a totally different organization.
You're restating my point. Because the Gingerman day in October is STT, I don't know if I'll have a similar experience to BHF as I did with NESBA.

That being said, sometimes I saw CR's riding in groups which meant they weren't able to evaluate riders and provide feedback. No worries because riders were told some of the CR's are still learning (no one is perfect).

So, I hope I would have at least as good of an experience riding an STT event because I had a BLAST at the NESBA event.

Hopefully I can start riding Intermediate for my next event.

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #28 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 07:00 PM
I don't know...
 
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Streamwood
Posts: 5,208
Location: Streamwood
Sportbike: more than one... one less now...
Years Riding: not long enough
How you found us: Some girl was talking about it.
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceboympk View Post
You're restating my point. Because the Gingerman day in October is STT, I don't know if I'll have a similar experience to BHF as I did with NESBA.

That being said, sometimes I saw CR's riding in groups which meant they weren't able to evaluate riders and provide feedback. No worries because riders were told some of the CR's are still learning (no one is perfect).

So, I hope I would have at least as good of an experience riding an STT event because I had a BLAST at the NESBA event.

Hopefully I can start riding Intermediate for my next event.
STT also provides CRs who instruct you. Maybe in a bit different way than NESBA but you will get feedback and coaching.

Hey maybe next year you can take that RC51 and start racing if you feel ready, the super Twins class is pretty open, and a lot of fun.

#19
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post #29 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
Mid-turn correction? Me?
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oak Park
Posts: 33
Location: Oak Park
Sportbike: RC51 Track Bike, BMW K1200RS, Suzuki LC1500
Years Riding: 25 years
How you found us: IAMNOTGREG
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germany View Post
STT also provides CRs who instruct you. Maybe in a bit different way than NESBA but you will get feedback and coaching.

Hey maybe next year you can take that RC51 and start racing if you feel ready, the super Twins class is pretty open, and a lot of fun.
I'm ready to get to the track again, but I can't officially "race" due to my life insurance policy which will take care of my wife and daughter.

I thought I did really well during the last session, but I know I have so much to learn. I look at the pics Greg posted of me and riders who have better form, so I've seen how much improvement I need. One step at a time. Just a few things each track day right?

That's why it's important for me to work with CR's, my friends and fellow riders to get their feedback so I know what I need to work on each track day.

Gingerman next?

Thanks again for everyone's thoughtfulness and time to respond to my posts.

Regards,
Mark

Watching the Troy Bayliss story included his legendary WSBK battle with Colin Edwards. Gave me more appreciation for my RC51 which turned out to be a lucky first track bike purchase.

If only I could ride 1/100th as good as Colin.
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post #30 of 67 (permalink) Old 09-07-2010, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Morgan Park, IL
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Location: Morgan Park, IL
Sportbike: A couple
Years Riding: too long to have any sense
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Mark and Dani -

Great to meet you in person this weekend. Just come to Putnam in October. Problem solved.

Craig
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