Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong

So about 2 times each track day I usually end up in the grass. I don't know if its me getting scared I'm not going to make the turn half way through or what it is but no matter what I always end up on the grass at least once a track day. Here is a video of me going into the grass, i hope this helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZWIcK2pMHg
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 05:32 PM
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You're pussying out. I can see your head come up in the reflection of the speedometer right as you roll off the throttle and steer for the grass. You are literally steering for the grass.
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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yea i need to stop getting so scared mid turn like that. so should i give it more gas and lean the bike over more to make the turn next time i think im not gonna make it?
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 05:49 PM
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Dude, i'm a new rider and even i know that you already know the answer to that and what you're doing wrong. Even in your other video you said in the description that you "panicked." You know you can make those turns.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 05:57 PM
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I am going to go off on a limb...
Where are you looking, when you go off into the grass?

I would wager, you are not continuing to look through the turn!

You are by far better off trying to make the turn and crashing...
Then giving up and riding in the grass.
Keep looking where you want to go, like a football field ahead of where you are!

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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 05:59 PM
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the best thing i can tell you is "trust more" the bike has more ability than you.

marshall skloss told me once; dont stop riding the bike until yer face is either on
track or in the grass................and then......still try.

i not one for werds of wisdom, but it seems you give in to fear.

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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
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I have never saw running off as an option. A good friend of mine used to run off all the time. I told him to ride like it isn't an option, low side or make the turn. He hasn't run off since. Just need to change your mind set. You are more likely to crash doing what you are doing then just looking through the corner and making it stick.

Good luck, you'll get there.
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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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yea i guess i am my own worst enemy. it does make more sense to just go for it rather than give up mid turn. i think i need to look further through the turn too.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 06:26 PM
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take your time and work with a coach, your lines are pretty lax thru those corners that we saw.

your setup thru 4 and into 5 also never seemed to differentiate the 2 corners leading to you early apexing 5 and pointint you into the grass.

xian13 is likely correct as well with where are you looking. you need to be looking where you want to be not at what the bike happens to be pointed at

-Jason
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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yea i have so much trouble with the end of turn 3 i think its called the bus stop. that giant concrete square in the middle screws me up every time. which is probably causing me to mess up the setup on turn 4
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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 07:45 PM
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Don't look at the road right in front of you, yes the bus stop is a bit weird, but that concrete patch is actually grippier than the rest of the track, if you are on the perfect line, you will not hit it...
Look for someone to follow, a CR! They can show you the lines you should use.

Running off is like jumping out of a window, you might get lucky on the first floor but on the 5th, it will hurt... Make it your rule to stay on track what ever you have to do.

Try to slow down until you make the perfect turn, than start picking up the speed with holding the line, use your body to steer the bike, lean off to the side and the bike will turn better.

the guy infront of you takes that turn slower and seems to have his bike more tipped to the side. try to find a balance in speed, leanangle and the perfect line.

#19

Last edited by Germany; 07-21-2011 at 07:49 PM.
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 07:46 PM
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Also if you are getting scared you are also probably going to fast for what you can handle safely.



$2000 for the SV :P
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germany View Post
Don't look at the road right in front of you, yes the bus stop is a bit weird, but that concrete patch is actually grippier than the rest of the track, if you are on the perfect line, you will not hit it...
Also, when you get there, you should already be looking at the next turn, not down at that patch. If you look left you will go left, if you look right you will go right, if you look down...................

"When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve your situation, but it will end the suspense."
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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 07:52 PM
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If I read that right, you are doing the next Wednesday at BHF. If so look for Steve Alexander aka G2G, he is a CR. Ask him to show you a good line and also explain to him what your problem is, he is a excelent coach for BHF and can help you get you past your problem

#19
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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germany View Post
...
Look for someone to follow, a CR!...
Not to split hairs here... (Which means, that is exactly what I am going to do)

I almost always advocate following a CR.
Just not with this situation.

If you would follow a CR to learn his line, you are going to just watch the CR.
The minute the CR is not there, you will be accustom to going faster... Then you will still freak out and go off into the grass... but now faster.

Definitely work with an instructor.
Have them assess you.
I just fear having them tow you, will lead to a crash.

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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Xian_13 View Post
Not to split hairs here... (Which means, that is exactly what I am going to do)

I almost always advocate following a CR.
Just not with this situation.

If you would follow a CR to learn his line, you are going to just watch the CR.
The minute the CR is not there, you will be accustom to going faster... Then you will still freak out and go off into the grass... but now faster.

Definitely work with an instructor.
Have them assess you.
I just fear having them tow you, will lead to a crash.

-X
You are right. I meant that... good CRs do that, don't they? At least all the good guy's that helped me... first follow, than lead, and than follow again if possible...

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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 08:18 PM
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I've been riding track for 4 seasons now and have run off the track ONCE, and that was because I was in a tank slapper and physically could not control the bike to make the turn. Making the corner is almost always and option, and if you are running off once per trackday you need to take a step back and calm down before you hurt yourself. You should never be scared out there, take it easy, work on the fundamentals and getting comfortable, if you are always running around the track scared you are:
1) A danger to yourself and others,
2) Not going to learn as quickly because you wont be concentrating on improving, but rather gritting your teeth ever corner wondering if you're going to make it.
3) Not doing something right, either not looking through the corner, or don't have confidence in either yourself or the bike.

Only you can Identify what the problem is, why are you standing it up and running off, once you know why you're doing it, figure out the fix. No confidence in the tires? Get new tires. No confidence in the bike? Get the bike fixed or looked at by someone you trust. Ttarget fixating? Go slower and focus on picking up your visual reference marks and looking through the corners. Riding over your head? Slow down.

Next time out, make it priority 1 to keep yourself and your bike under control all day, this means no running off the track.

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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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yea i think it is all mental. i am not scared by any means on the track, and i definitely trust my bike and tires, i think my problem is not looking through the corners all the way and target fixation. my last session of the day i went out there saying i was going to go at a relaxed pace to finish the day and was going to try to keep the bike more upright because i was scraping the crap out of my toe sliders and the rear was sliding on me. looking at the video it ended up being my fastest session of the day. i think i get a little ahead of myself out there once i start to "feel it". i definintely need to work on my lines too. i know the white dots are on the track but sometimes they are hard to see.
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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buell 1125 View Post
yea i think it is all mental. i am not scared by any means on the track, and i definitely trust my bike and tires, i think my problem is not looking through the corners all the way and target fixation. my last session of the day i went out there saying i was going to go at a relaxed pace to finish the day and was going to try to keep the bike more upright because i was scraping the crap out of my toe sliders and the rear was sliding on me. looking at the video it ended up being my fastest session of the day. i think i get a little ahead of myself out there once i start to "feel it". i definintely need to work on my lines too. i know the white dots are on the track but sometimes they are hard to see.
Sounds like you've got a lot to work on, your toes should not be hitting, check your foot position on the pegs. When is your rear sliding out? Unless you are really haulin' the mail you should not be spinning up the rear on an SV. Get with a CR next time out, I'd hate to see you hit the ground because of something preventable.

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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 09:40 PM
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no worries man, it happens. There is a name to this phenomena , if my English allows , it's called brainfart ....

Had one a month ago . went of the track in turn 2 at BHF. so get it over with and don't overalyze but do think about wtf your toes are dragging as 'tis is much more serious.

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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-21-2011, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
I've been riding track for 4 seasons now ...
and thinking about racing just now ? that's sandbaggin...

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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 08:47 AM
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This is definitely a case of "you need to slow down to go fast". That turn is one of the faster turns on the track. You could have easily made it, but you just bailed halfway through. If it's not you're confidence, then you need to slow it down and work on your skills. Get your body position right, get comfortable leaning the bike over, get your lines down, and your off roading should go away. Easier said than done, but as others have said, don't let that be an option.

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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 08:56 AM
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Hahaha, you're Kylekyleshow? I was watching your 1125cr videos the other night trying to convince myself not to buy one... it didn't work.

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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:10 AM
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take the gopro you have and move it to the tail of your bike pointing forward, it doesnt make great youtube trackday videos but it does show you what you are doing, and with the wide angle lens on the gopros you can see enough on the sides to know what corner you are in.
another suggestion I would make would be to take the lap timer off your bike, it seems like you pout a lot of emphasis on your lap times in that last post. I have a timer on my bike but I am far more concerened with the consistency of times lap to lap than i am with that actual times I am running.

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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germany View Post
If I read that right, you are doing the next Wednesday at BHF. If so look for Steve Alexander aka G2G, he is a CR. Ask him to show you a good line and also explain to him what your problem is, he is a excelent coach for BHF and can help you get you past your problem
Its Uncle Steve now since they changed my screen name. But yes I can help ya but just like X said ur problem is with not looking ahead. Only you can change that unless I come by and smack you in the head if ur not doing it
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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Steve View Post
Its Uncle Steve now since they changed my screen name. But yes I can help ya but just like X said ur problem is with not looking ahead. Only you can change that unless I come by and smack you in the head if ur not doing it
ok My dear uncle...

#19
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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Steve View Post
unless I come by and smack you in the head if ur not doing it
i believe that !!!

i want to drink, but only to kill a certain few brain cells and i don't care how many i have to take out to get to them.
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian_13 View Post
Not to split hairs here... (Which means, that is exactly what I am going to do)

I almost always advocate following a CR.
Just not with this situation.

If you would follow a CR to learn his line, you are going to just watch the CR.
The minute the CR is not there, you will be accustom to going faster... Then you will still freak out and go off into the grass... but now faster.

Definitely work with an instructor.
Have them assess you.
I just fear having them tow you, will lead to a crash.

-X
X - If he's doing a MotoVid day, then this would be correct, as they differentiate between CR and Instructor roles/duties. If he's doing a NESBA day, then the CR/Instructor is one in the same.


Buell 1125 - you need to learn to TRUST your bike, and yourself. You said something about giving it more gas, and leaning more in your post. You don't really want to give it gas while you're trying to lean the bike over. Just make sure you're on the correct line and be smooth in your controls. You can give it maintenance throttle, but don't try to accelerate until you can reduce lean angle and can see your exit line/point.

Following a CR is a very good way to see the lines and push your comfort zone a little, but Xian is correct, once the CR waves you by, the decisions are now yours to make. Following a CR is the time to look for/learn your braking points, turn-in points, and line references, so that when you're on your own, you know what to look for.

When in doubt - LOOK THROUGH THE TURN AND LEAN THE DAMN BIKE!!!

Take things one step at a time, and build your skills and knowledge BEFORE you try to go fast. The speed will naturally come as you improve your fundamentals.

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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:51 AM
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When you run off the track the only thing preventing a crash is dumb fu*&ing luck.

There is no guarantee of traction, smooth passage or anything.



First ..... In the vid ..... you were on and off the throttle significantly a couple
times in the corner ..... that demonstrates the lack of a complete plan for
the corner and a lack of commitment. That will not work.


At the instant you feel that twinge...... "I might not make the corner" it's time
to IMMEDIATELY recommit fully.

Ease off the brakes ( if they are on )
TURN / DROP YOUR HEAD - Look past the exit
TURN THE BIKE
COMMIT


I *never* recommend running off,..... but in the end *if* you have to
you will have nearly completed the turn and will only run wide at the exit
rather that taking a straight fast path off the racing surface.


In 15 years of trackdays I have been off twice ......

once I brain-faded and drifted wide off at exit - my fault.

Once at BHF I chose to run straight at 6a after a close outside pass at the
entrance ..... I thought it would take the line away from the other rider.
The CR at the time (Fred) said .... I saw that .... thank god you didn't turn in.
I ran straight and braked HARD ...was at walking pace when I went off.

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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 09:54 AM
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god dammit. reading this is the first time ive wanted to take my bike to the track.

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Oh he can drive. He can drive beyond the limits of the tires, the engine, the car or anything else.
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