brake fade, GSXR master cylinders suck that bad? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
Chicagoland Sportbikes
 
Track Talk This forum is all about discussing riding and setup tips for different types of racetracks. As well as discussion about the local racing scene.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
brake fade, GSXR master cylinders suck that bad?

Was working on late braking today and was getting some nasty fade...

My setup:
'04 GSXR 600
Brakes bled at the track with RBF600
SBS pads with a little less than 50% left
stainless lines

The only thing I can think, and what I've heard (possibly from a GSXR hater) is that the master cylinders notoriously suck? substitute?
NickIF is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 08:40 PM
Registered User
 
Nexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,662
Location: Chicago
Sportbike: nada
Years Riding: 18
How you found us: No idea
           
Send a message via AIM to Nexus
I had an Accossato from Kevin at Safety First Racing on my 07GSXR600 and it was 100x better
Nexus is offline  
post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 08:50 PM
Midnight Rider
 
PatFitz9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North side
Posts: 3,885
Location: North side
Sportbike: R6 and a Z1000
Years Riding: for a bit
How you found us: random PM on sportbikes.net
           
I do think the master sucks, but I hear the calipers aren't the greatest either. After about a day, I get a squishy feel on the lever (Accossato), but the brakes are still strong.

Fat Pat #728

If you don't like my fire, then don't come around...
PatFitz9 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
Damn... I can't believe they suck that bad. I'm going to try changing out the pads (since I have a new set sitting here) just to see if that helps at all. The first session after the bleed they were good. Then they went to shit again. The lever pulls back now (cold) to less than 1.5" from the clip-on and that's with it set on 1. Just barely off my knuckles.
NickIF is offline  
post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:10 PM
I don't know...
 
Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Streamwood
Posts: 5,208
Location: Streamwood
Sportbike: more than one... one less now...
Years Riding: not long enough
How you found us: Some girl was talking about it.
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF View Post
The only thing I can think, and what I've heard (possibly from a GSXR hater) is that the master cylinders notoriously suck? substitute?
YES...

Brembo or Accossato, the later is pretty much the same, just a few $ cheaper...
Edit: I just remember that somone said the newer R6 masters are pretty good, but I'm not sure...

#19

Last edited by Germany; 09-05-2011 at 09:13 PM.
Germany is offline  
post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:23 PM
Midnight Rider
 
PatFitz9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North side
Posts: 3,885
Location: North side
Sportbike: R6 and a Z1000
Years Riding: for a bit
How you found us: random PM on sportbikes.net
           
I have an Accossato master, Vesrah RJL pads and Galfer wave rotors. They all improve brake performance, but the lever still feels soft on the initial pull.

Fat Pat #728

If you don't like my fire, then don't come around...
PatFitz9 is offline  
post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:26 PM
Registered User
 
Nexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,662
Location: Chicago
Sportbike: nada
Years Riding: 18
How you found us: No idea
           
Send a message via AIM to Nexus
Another route might be the 2011 GSXR master and calipers. The ones you have and prior models use the Tokico. For 2011 they changed over to some pretty Brembos...

"Braking is now handled by Brembo radial-mount four-piston calipers biting on larger 280mm discs (up from the 276.8mm units of before), with the rear disc dropping in size from 188mm to 186mm."

Now just wait till winter and see if anyone is parting a bike out

Damn I want this 600 now...white rims!!


Last edited by Nexus; 09-05-2011 at 09:28 PM.
Nexus is offline  
post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:33 PM

 
resurrection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: parkforest IL
Posts: 5,620
Location: parkforest IL
Sportbike: lots
Years Riding: all of them
How you found us: grasshopper
           
I know of one that losses lever after about a week of use.Bleed several times.

Pumps up good with no leaks I'm not sure what to fix.

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.
resurrection is offline  
post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:52 PM
Addicted
 
eE jeremy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Woodridge, IL
Posts: 2,747
Location: Woodridge, IL
Sportbike: 09 Kawi ZX6R, 75' Yamaha RD250, '13 KTM 350 SX-F, '05 Yamaha Zuma
Years Riding: Not nearly long enough
How you found us: followed the squids
           
Send a message via AIM to eE jeremy
Ditch those pads for some Vesrah's. 50% of the pad remaining means they are half as thick meaning they only have half the material to dissipate heat, therefore they will heat up and fade. Plus they aren't my favorite pad to begin with.

The master could very will be going too, when the seals start to go they can lose pressure and cause some braking issues. I found when mine failed I could only do about 3/4 of a session before I'd have to pull off and pump the lever to build pressure again. I got the brembo 19x18 and love it.

Shitty Pass Racing #513
eE jeremy is offline  
post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 09:53 PM
Registered User
 
Pilotx1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Elk Grove IL
Posts: 15,833
Location: Elk Grove IL
Sportbike: '03 Gsxr 1000, '04 Zuma,07 GSXR 600 trackbike
Years Riding: june 2007, since new,july '10
How you found us: friend
           
Send a message via AIM to Pilotx1 Send a message via Yahoo to Pilotx1
mc seals gus, check the bore for scoring as well


what sbs pads are you using and at what pace?
i was using the sbs sintered pads and was seeing short life and rapid fade through a session/race, i switched to the dual carbons and after gettign used to their initial characteristics like them alot, no fade anymore and improved wear life. we'll see how long they last at the end of this season...


also just because you just bled them doesnt guarantee that there isnt a small bubble still in there.

-Jason
CCS AM #31
Pilotx1 is offline  
post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
I believe they are dual carbons... I'm running a "spirited" intermediate/slow advanced pace. Plenty of traffic out there today (and red flags) to really get moving.

Brakes were first bled with a mighty vac, (at calipers and master cylinder) then by hand with the ziptie trick tapping/shaking the lines, MC, etc. to try and get any lingering bubbles out. I'm fairly confident there is no air in the lines. Really not looking to spend $600+ on brembos...

Does anyone else know about the R6 mastercylinders? Might have a line on an '06

Last edited by NickIF; 09-05-2011 at 10:08 PM.
NickIF is offline  
post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:06 PM
Registered User
 
Safety First's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,119
Location: Louisville, KY
Sportbike: 08 Suzuki GSXR600, 06 GSXR1000
Years Riding: Sponsored by Suzuki for 6 years.
How you found us: Fred from Sportbikes.net
           
The gixxer masters suck....even on the 2011's

Kevin Hanson
Safety First Racing
Louisville, KY
[email protected]
Safety First is offline  
post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
I guess this is a starting point then before I do calipers/rotors? Does anyone know where I can get one locally for a decent price?

http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/...=badger-street
NickIF is offline  
post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Registered User
 
Nexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,662
Location: Chicago
Sportbike: nada
Years Riding: 18
How you found us: No idea
           
Send a message via AIM to Nexus
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF View Post
I guess this is a starting point then before I do calipers/rotors? Does anyone know where I can get one locally for a decent price?

http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/...=badger-street
How about $100 cheaper w/ free SS lines and a tshirt if you get an Accossato?
http://www.safetyfirstracing.com/Acc...ver_p_170.html

Not as well known in the US as Brembo, but a number of top level peeps in the AMA on Superbike and 600s are running them.
Nexus is offline  
post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:34 PM

 
resurrection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: parkforest IL
Posts: 5,620
Location: parkforest IL
Sportbike: lots
Years Riding: all of them
How you found us: grasshopper
           
I'll have him order all the MC parts.
Thanks

Gus
We offer three kinds of service @ Resurrection
GOOD - CHEAP - FAST
You can pick any two
GOOD service CHEAP won't be FAST
GOOD service FAST won't be CHEAP
FAST service CHEAP won't be GOOD
and cold beer.

I'd love to help but I don't chase parts.
Please contact other forum members and supporters for parts.
resurrection is offline  
post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
How about $100 cheaper w/ free SS lines and a tshirt if you get an Accossato?
http://www.safetyfirstracing.com/Acc...ver_p_170.html

Not as well known in the US as Brembo, but a number of top level peeps in the AMA on Superbike and 600s are running them.
Hmmm... I'd need to get it by friday.
NickIF is offline  
post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:51 PM
Registered User
 
Pilotx1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Elk Grove IL
Posts: 15,833
Location: Elk Grove IL
Sportbike: '03 Gsxr 1000, '04 Zuma,07 GSXR 600 trackbike
Years Riding: june 2007, since new,july '10
How you found us: friend
           
Send a message via AIM to Pilotx1 Send a message via Yahoo to Pilotx1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF View Post
I believe they are dual carbons... I'm running a "spirited" intermediate/slow advanced pace. Plenty of traffic out there today (and red flags) to really get moving.
im runnign the same pads with about the same to less thickness left on them and they are not your problem. i got fade this past sat but it was due entirely to old fluid in the system, i bled it all out and the brakes were back to 100% of what they should be, im running a mid lower A pace so were seeing similar pad usage, the mc is a known weak point as others have said and its something i keep a close eye on for any sign of failure, I hope to get a aftermarket mc this winter along wth a laundry list of other items for the bike

-Jason
CCS AM #31
Pilotx1 is offline  
post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 01:24 AM
Viva La Figa!!
 
Downforce137's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Diana
Posts: 6,215
Location: In Diana
Sportbike: negative.
Years Riding: long enough to know better.
How you found us: cycleforums.com
           
Send a message via AIM to Downforce137
thin pads transfer more heat to the fluid... fyi.
Downforce137 is offline  
post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 06:03 AM
I don't know...
 
Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Streamwood
Posts: 5,208
Location: Streamwood
Sportbike: more than one... one less now...
Years Riding: not long enough
How you found us: Some girl was talking about it.
           
... who needs brakes? They just slow you down...

get a new Master and I bet it will be 100 times better.

#19
Germany is offline  
post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 06:19 AM
Chief Apex Inspector
 
BLARNEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bartlett
Posts: 10,598
Location: Bartlett
Sportbike: The Bird is the *word* - XX
Years Riding: Lots
How you found us: Stuck on the bottom of my race boot.......
           
It's the master Nick ..... I went through the same deal with my 04.


Pad's helped, bigger rotors helped, but what got them consistent was a Brembo.

Tom

T2
It's ALL between the ears.....
NESBA Midwest CR #82 ( Hey - T2! ) Retired ?
FJR and a Big Red Wing-Thing
BLARNEY's GARAGE
BLARNEY is offline  
post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 06:35 AM
Registered User
 
alocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Algonquin
Posts: 416
Location: Algonquin
Sportbike: 2007 GSXR 1000
Years Riding: .05 Years
How you found us: RAT
      
The R6 master helped but did not completely cure my mushy lever. Fresh fluid has been the only solution. This means a freshly cracked brake fluid bottle also, not something that has been in the hot garage for a few months.

_________________

CCS AM 454
alocker is offline  
post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 07:06 AM
Registered User
 
JRSMAIL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Johnsburg, Il
Posts: 9,428
Location: Johnsburg, Il
Sportbike: A weed wacker
Years Riding: Just started today as a matter of fact..
How you found us: A dream I had once
           
Send a message via MSN to JRSMAIL
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
It's the master Nick ..... I went through the same deal with my 04.


Pad's helped, bigger rotors helped, but what got them consistent was a Brembo.

Tom
This, when over the same thing with my 05 600.

Jon
MSF Instructor


<---- Useless

Always Stand For What You Believe In... Even If Means You Stand Alone...
JRSMAIL is offline  
post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 07:53 AM
Chief Apex Inspector
 
BLARNEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bartlett
Posts: 10,598
Location: Bartlett
Sportbike: The Bird is the *word* - XX
Years Riding: Lots
How you found us: Stuck on the bottom of my race boot.......
           
I went from bleeding twice a weekend to bleeding twice a season.


Tom

T2
It's ALL between the ears.....
NESBA Midwest CR #82 ( Hey - T2! ) Retired ?
FJR and a Big Red Wing-Thing
BLARNEY's GARAGE
BLARNEY is offline  
post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
sounds good, im going to try and order one today
NickIF is offline  
post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 08:46 AM
Registered User
 
Safety First's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,119
Location: Louisville, KY
Sportbike: 08 Suzuki GSXR600, 06 GSXR1000
Years Riding: Sponsored by Suzuki for 6 years.
How you found us: Fred from Sportbikes.net
           
Nick...sent you a PM...you'll have it the next day.

Kevin Hanson
Safety First Racing
Louisville, KY
[email protected]
Safety First is offline  
post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 10:23 AM
Registered Loser
 
Otis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Im back mofos!!!
Posts: 615
Location: Im back mofos!!!
Sportbike: 06 gsxr 1k
Years Riding: best yrs of my life
How you found us: i forgot
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by eE jeremy View Post
Ditch those pads for some Vesrah's. 50% of the pad remaining means they are half as thick meaning they only have half the material to dissipate heat, therefore they will heat up and fade. Plus they aren't my favorite pad to begin with.

The master could very will be going too, when the seals start to go they can lose pressure and cause some braking issues. I found when mine failed I could only do about 3/4 of a session before I'd have to pull off and pump the lever to build pressure again. I got the brembo 19x18 and love it.
a little bit off topic,
but i got me some of those vesrah XX pads we were talking about...
HOLY HAND OF GOD brake pads dude !!!

i was runnin RJL's before but these are insane.
Otis is offline  
post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 10:35 AM
King Nothing


 
Kegger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ur Moms House
Posts: 17,944
Location: Ur Moms House
Sportbike: I ride Ur Mom
Years Riding: As long as Ive known Ur Mom
How you found us: u found me
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatFitz9 View Post
I do think the master sucks, but I hear the calipers aren't the greatest either. After about a day, I get a squishy feel on the lever (Accossato), but the brakes are still strong.
Have a pro bleed them/check them, my calipers are stock, brembo master, superbike lines, vesrah pads and two finger full braking throughout the weekend.......you may have a problem: moisture, air etc.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY View Post
It's the master Nick ..... I went through the same deal with my 04.


Pad's helped, bigger rotors helped, but what got them consistent was a Brembo.

Tom

"When in doubt, use full throttle. It may not improve your situation, but it will end the suspense."
Kegger is offline  
post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 10:41 AM
Registered User
 
Safety First's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,119
Location: Louisville, KY
Sportbike: 08 Suzuki GSXR600, 06 GSXR1000
Years Riding: Sponsored by Suzuki for 6 years.
How you found us: Fred from Sportbikes.net
           
Trust me...the masters suck.

Suzuki wouldn't listen and put Brembo calipers on the new bike and the problem is still the same. Ask any other AMA team that is racing them if you don't want to believe me.

Kevin Hanson
Safety First Racing
Louisville, KY
[email protected]
Safety First is offline  
post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 11:56 AM
Ride Naked
 
mac11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NashVegas, TN
Posts: 4,206
Location: NashVegas, TN
Sportbike: z1000
Years Riding: divide by zero error
How you found us: Panda Express
           
Send a message via AIM to mac11
Semi-related to this topic, how is the factory kawi zx6 master in relation? I'm doing a brake upgrade on my bike.

Quote:
Oh he can drive. He can drive beyond the limits of the tires, the engine, the car or anything else.
mac11 is offline  
post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
NickIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 3,260
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Sportbike: FJR1300
Years Riding: greater than a decade.
How you found us: google
           
Send a message via AIM to NickIF
ordered!
NickIF is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chicagoland Sportbikes forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome