Track picture critique - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Track picture critique

So yesterday was my 2nd track day this month and before that it's been almost 5 years. Was feeling pretty good out there yesterday. Aside from the brake fade the bike felt really really stable. This is probably the first track bike I've had that feels setup properly. Is it really like riding a bike? Critique? Anyone that that recognizes me from "I" want to call me an asshole? lol...
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 05:14 PM
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1st problem. No number plates, and you're doing a track day. Other than that, cool pic!
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 05:15 PM
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looks fine to me, if anything to much body lean over for the bike angel.



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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 05:38 PM
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1st problem. No number plates, and you're doing a track day. Other than that, cool pic!

+1
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 05:42 PM
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You can start to add angle and pick that knee up .... good form though.

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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1st problem. No number plates, and you're doing a track day. Other than that, cool pic!
hahaha that might change next year.. I'm just not sure if I want that change to occur on a 600.

I feel like I'm not getting the bike leaned over anywhere near like I used too, going to blackhawk again this weekend, and I'll work on it. I was riding with my buddy and trying to demonstrate getting off the bike a little more so I might have been exaggerating it a little bit.
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 07:46 PM
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You can start to add angle and pick that knee up .... good form though.

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+1. also, yellow is ugly

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 08:24 PM
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I know this may not be popular, but I never worried about body position at all. I worried about keeping the rear tire accelerating just under what would spin it up and cause you to high side. If in that series of events it was beneficial to lean off more to keep the bike more upright for more traction, so be it. That was last on the list though. My pics may not have been the best, but lap times were always pretty close.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 08:49 PM
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looks good Nick, were did you get the pic?

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 08:52 PM
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I know this may not be popular, but I never worried about body position at all. I worried about keeping the rear tire accelerating just under what would spin it up and cause you to high side. If in that series of events it was beneficial to lean off more to keep the bike more upright for more traction, so be it. That was last on the list though. My pics may not have been the best, but lap times were always pretty close.
I like your approach...

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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looks good Nick, were did you get the pic?
A guy from the new CR, Frost. Awesome photographer. Better than what most pay money for lol.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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I know this may not be popular, but I never worried about body position at all. I worried about keeping the rear tire accelerating just under what would spin it up and cause you to high side. If in that series of events it was beneficial to lean off more to keep the bike more upright for more traction, so be it. That was last on the list though. My pics may not have been the best, but lap times were always pretty close.
But by getting off the bike it allows you to keep the bike more upright = bigger tire surface contact = more acceleration?

At least that's always what I thought?
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 09:42 PM
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But by getting off the bike it allows you to keep the bike more upright = bigger tire surface contact = more acceleration?

At least that's always what I thought?
yes that is correct, but when do you accelerate? at the end of the turn / after the apex, get in a comfortable, stable position into and during the turn and drop your head and body to the end of the turn, when you need the acceleration. look at some of the races from this weekend, the bigger the bike, the more the rider is off the bike at the END of the turn.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 09:49 PM
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it's not about acceleration ... it is about braking.

how well and how hard splits men from boys

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 09:56 PM
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it's not about acceleration ... it is about braking.

how well and how hard splits men from boys
I would say it's both, if you have a shitty entry due to what ever reason, you might need a good drive out - accelerate harder.
But than again if your corner speed is higher, this all is getting different. Like you said your corner speed is way faster than mine or my friends ( from our converstion yesterday...), but he still makes me look very slow at the end...

by the way; I was looking at data from yesterday, I was going about 10mph faster than I go on the duc and go significently later on the brakes in 1.

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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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yes that is correct, but when do you accelerate? at the end of the turn / after the apex, get in a comfortable, stable position into and during the turn and drop your head and body to the end of the turn, when you need the acceleration. look at some of the races from this weekend, the bigger the bike, the more the rider is off the bike at the END of the turn.
I'm going to have to work on this next weekend
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 10:42 PM
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I'm going to have to work on this next weekend
you gonna pit with Eric?

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 10:44 PM

 
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To each their own. I learned from the Yamaha Champions School method. It works for me. Though I did hit a point where to much body position and to much knee out had to be adjusted to allow the bike more lean angle to make the right curve. On the exits, it's all about body position and traction.

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 11:42 PM
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Hard to tell from the pic (and I'm no pro), but maybe one thing to think about:

You look like you are way off the bike (way to the side). Maybe this is on purpose, maybe others agree that position is optimal. But I liked to "sink into the side of the bike." I would still hang off the side - but the "thought" was not to hang far off the side (where you are using a lot of body strength to hang on). I didn't want a lot of distance between me and the bike.

Plus if yo do spin the tire, it feels good (it doesn't feel like your are gonna fall off). And your chances of gracefully handling a potential high-side are a bit better.

Again - just my 2 cents (not looking for a debate from anyone).

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselBoy View Post
it's not about acceleration ... it is about braking.

how well and how hard splits men from boys
Real racers dont brake until they past the 1 marker.




































Works great with 4 wheels, not a great idea on 2. Did this in my first motorcycle road race back in 99. Totally forgot that bikes dont slow as fast as cars. Made the T1 cornerworkers chase me all the way to T2. I guess they were waiting for me to fall over.

Nick, do what works best for you. If hanging off that much works and you are comfortable with it, keep doing it. Theres no one way thats "correct". Hell watch Dan Ortega ride. Hardly any hanging off and look how freaking fast he is.

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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 01:38 AM
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I was just thinking, what I wrote might be hard to understand, yes I know as always...
I'll show you what I meant to explain this weekend.

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
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But by getting off the bike it allows you to keep the bike more upright = bigger tire surface contact = more acceleration?

At least that's always what I thought?
Yes, in theory, all this is correct per physics. In the real world, this type of thinking is only relevant for the last 1% of speed attainment. Once you are within a half second of the track record, it might become relevant. Most important thing is to be comfortable in the turn, so your attention focuses on more important issues like traction and giving the bike as much gas and speed as it can handle, being smooth, and braking as late as you can into the turn. After that, then yes, some turns you will need to adjust your body to stand the bike up more for more acceleration. For most people though, that is WAY down the line.
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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I was just thinking, what I wrote might be hard to understand, yes I know as always...
I'll show you what I meant to explain this weekend.
Sounds good!

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you gonna pit with Eric?
Yep, and Tim just signed up too. Should be a fun weekend.
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 10:28 AM
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For me it depends on the corner, conditions, bike etc.

Long carousel style corner, I hang off pretty far to get as much corner speed as possible. (BHF turn 3, RA turn 9?), Sometimes I even drag elbow.

Shorter 90deg type corner, I get in , turn the bike without hanging off much and then stand it up so I can get on the power as soon as possible. If I hang off too far in this type of corner I don't have the feel needed to put the power down confidently, I definitely push the bike away from me as I roll on the gas though, I probably lean off more half way through the exit than i do at the apex. (BHF Turn 7)

high speed kink, I try to stay tucked up under the wind screen and muscle the bike over with bar inputs (hurry downs at RA).

Rain or otherwise slick surface, I hang off as far as I can while still feeling in control.

For me there are positives and negatives of hanging off so you balance that to accomplish what you want to accomplish. Hanging off provides more clearance, contact patch, and front end grip, but sacrifices feel and if leaned way over, rear end traction (atleast that's what it feels like to me).

That said, I'm still trying to figure this stuff out and I experiment almost every time out on track to try and see what works best under a wide variety of conditions, I learn something new every time out. I suggest you do the same, try different techniques out and see what works for you.

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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 11:52 AM
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Lots of good info in here, now I got some new things to try at the next trackday, thanks all!
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
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For me it depends on the corner, conditions, bike etc.

Long carousel style corner, I hang off pretty far to get as much corner speed as possible. (BHF turn 3, RA turn 9?), Sometimes I even drag elbow.

Shorter 90deg type corner, I get in , turn the bike without hanging off much and then stand it up so I can get on the power as soon as possible. If I hang off too far in this type of corner I don't have the feel needed to put the power down confidently, I definitely push the bike away from me as I roll on the gas though, I probably lean off more half way through the exit than i do at the apex. (BHF Turn 7)

high speed kink, I try to stay tucked up under the wind screen and muscle the bike over with bar inputs (hurry downs at RA).

Rain or otherwise slick surface, I hang off as far as I can while still feeling in control.

For me there are positives and negatives of hanging off so you balance that to accomplish what you want to accomplish. Hanging off provides more clearance, contact patch, and front end grip, but sacrifices feel and if leaned way over, rear end traction (atleast that's what it feels like to me).

That said, I'm still trying to figure this stuff out and I experiment almost every time out on track to try and see what works best under a wide variety of conditions, I learn something new every time out. I suggest you do the same, try different techniques out and see what works for you.
Great post!

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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 12:07 PM
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i'm not used to seeing that bike without another rider stuck in the rear wheel/exhaust.

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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 12:59 PM
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Sounds good!
Yep, and Tim just signed up too. Should be a fun weekend.
I'm the slow one right now... but I should be signed up tonight. Tim is also working on getting a master for the weekend, I think you might have bought the last one from Safety first, when he called Kevin... lol

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i'm not used to seeing that bike without another rider stuck in the rear wheel/exhaust.

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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 01:03 PM
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by the way; I was looking at data from yesterday, I was going about 10mph faster than I go on the duc and go significently later on the brakes in 1.
you are pretty impressive on the brakes into 1. good job there. for some reason I get myself very buzy with all the downshifts and have to brake a lot earlier. this sux.

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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 01:07 PM
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you are pretty impressive on the brakes into 1. good job there. for some reason I get myself very buzy with all the downshifts and have to brake a lot earlier. this sux.
I had an advantage... I only got in 3rd with the QS not working... LOL
but that bike brakes very impressive, Better than the Monoblock-High-end duc brakes... or it's because the duc pads are down and I had metal on metal the last few times out...

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