Fast lap at BHF...what's it like? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Fast lap at BHF...what's it like?

- Inspired by JimGoFast -

So after reading Jim's rendition of a lap at BHF, I collected up what was left of my fragile ego, and decided I'd like to hear about the rest of you knuckleheads.

Specifically, take us through a lap. Gearing, speeds, whatever. All I know is that I'm dog slow (no pun intended). To prove it, here's my lap from the CLSB trackday - forgive me if I count the corners incorrectly.

Somewhere barely over a hundo down the front straight before I get scared and jump on the binders. Downshift from 5th to 2nd before heading into T1. Upshift to 3rd through T2, and rely on the v-twin grunt to pull me through the carosel (T3). Ping off the rev-limiter in 3rd on corner exit, and close my eyes through the bus stop. Downshift to 2nd for the T5 left hander, and catch 3rd again on exit. Abuse the wide gear ratio in 3rd again to lug me though T6 and rev the snot out of it until it's time for T7. Downshift to 2nd, pray, repeat.

Keeping in mind that all this is taking place on a 70hp SV, it's clear that I'm not setting any track records. Just wondering how the fast kids do it. Right on~

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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:02 AM
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i'm slow. i just stick it in 5th and stay there for the whole course.



Of course i'm also only 1k from redline with stock gearing for the whole thing! muahahahahha!

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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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People that can't finsh a session need not reply...

Oh yeah, and for what it's worth, I think I run 1:40ish laptimes (never timed it so that's a guess).

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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Underdog
People that can't finsh a session need not reply...

Oh yeah, and for what it's worth, I think I run 1:40ish laptimes (never timed it so that's a guess).
bahahahah, dickhead! I was running well under 1:40.

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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:39 AM
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OK. I don't think I'm qualified to describe what a HOT lap feels like at BHF. As I remember, only two guys lapped me at the CLSB track day in June. I was in the beginners group. As I remember, it was Crazy and someone else that was running with him. Anybody else lap my slow ass? I was a Blue/White R1 with a rider wearin' a black helmet. I'm not counting control riders.

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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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I'm sure you were, Chris. I mean, how much time could it take to get from the grid to the wall behind T1 anyway?

Seriously though, I know you're faster than me Mr. Intermediate Group...so fess up, what's a lap like when the wheels stay on the ground?

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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Underdog


Seriously though, I know you're faster than me Mr. Intermediate Group...so fess up, what's a lap like when the wheels stay on the ground?
For my slow as shit ass on a 600:

T1-way up in second gear
T2-3rd
caro-3rd edit: or maybe 2nd if I feel like hearing the bike scream all the way through there. 3rd seems smoother.
kink-2nd
T5-3rdish
T6-2nd driving really hard out of the corner and going for 3rd asap
T7-2nd after shifting down from 4th
hit 4th on the straight, probably 125-130mph-ish.

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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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That's more like it. To prove that you really are slow...here's Jim's lap -- poached from Dear Jim.

--

where i would rather be
Slowing from 150mph, rear tire dancing, down shifting to third, laying the bike over, the knee is down on the grown as my chin follows my right shoulder towards the right front of the bike as I grab more throttle. I accelerate towards the next bend grab 4th as i take the left heading into turn 3, back down to third head is now almost looking behind right shoulder as I accelerate through the carousel into the kink. Breaking hard as i whip it quickly right then left as i get back on the gas Wide Fucking open through turn 5 as it becomes one long sweeping beautiful left hander with an upshift mid turn to 4th. Breaking hard for turn 6 through the dip and into the back stretch, shifting 4th,5th then back hard on the brakes for the final turn, and back on to the front stretch, yeah thats where i want to be...........anyone else?????

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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:46 AM
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I think I' gonna do it on my valkrie next year. Do I get extra points if I have "cant drive 55" cranked on the cd player while I'm railin




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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:50 AM
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Underdog...maybe the gearing on the SV is WAY different than my stock F4i, but you may be in the wrong gears for a few turns. You may be wasting sometime downwshifting from 5th to 2nd going into T1. Try 3rd.

Downshift to 2nd just before the bustop....hit 3rd between the bustop transition and T4. Click off 4th while in the middle of the long lefthander and then back down to 3rd through T5-6. Hit 4th, possibly 5th again on the kink, and then start all over again either in 2nd or 3rd.
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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:51 AM
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i read jim's earlier. i have neither his flowery writing skills, nor his steller track skills, nor his raisin sized nuts.

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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:53 AM
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Jimbo is not hititng 150mph and BHF.
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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:53 AM
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Vcook's description sounds about like the gears I was in, but I was on a R1. When I was able to get around someone I was following (on a kawi), I was able to crank it after T7. I managed a glance at the speedo (I know I shouldn't have) and it was coming down through 130ish when I grabbed the brakes. I knew I was faster than before cause the back end hopped a bit. Yikes!!! Man, T1 comes up fast!!!

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips Kruz! Needless to say my gear selection blows, no secret there. I tried going through T1 in 3rd a few times. I'm such a nancy-boy on the entry speed though that I couldn't get any drive on the exit. ...so I went to 2nd.

This is more a curiosity for me. I was impressed watching the faster guys tuck it into the corners (and following Oddy around for a few laps re-enforced the fact that I have much to learn). Just wanted to pass the time and see what goes through the more seasoned riders heads out there. That's all.

(note: I'll be hunting you down for lessons next year)

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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 11:59 AM
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Well, myself I too have an SV but I added a 2 up in the rear sprocket. Now have a 750 and things happen a lot faster.

SV going into T1, roll off the gas just at the building still trying to pass a larger cc bike in front of me. No idea of speed as it's taped over. Through turn one, up shift one pass turn two on the gas, roll off apply brake and setup for T3. Use steady gas into T3, slowly rolling in the gas for the exit into T4. Down one apex T4, gas up shift one before T5. Maintain gas for first part of T5 and setup second half T5 short shift up one while on the gas going to T6A. Apply brakes and downshift one before T6A, on the gas up shift one just pass T6B. Up another gear to red line and hold to finish out in to T7, down two and on to the front straight. All while doing low 1:30ís and into the 1:29 in the beginners group and street tires. Low siding twice in one weekend in T7 didnít help the chances of moving up a class for NESBA.




The 750 has GPís for tires and faster. Should be a fun new year.

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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kruz
Jimbo is not hititng 150mph and BHF.

Indicated on the 9r i was hitting 150 indicated, so thats what 140mph or so?? regardless im still faster then you.

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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 12:24 PM
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hmm,

I don't get off the gas until the 4 brake marker. Then I engine brake to about 2 1/2, brake to about 1/2, downshift through that into 3rd. 2nd is too high for that corner, you should be going 50-ish (I think) Bang an upshift before turn 3. My revs bog down a bit slowing for that corner, but you have to resist the urge to downshift or you'll be screwed later on. You don't really need to downshift into the bus stop on an SV, it doesn't gain that much and you'll just be upshifting by T4. I suck through that section, sometimes I downshift going into the stop, but forget to upshift by 4. If you play it right, T4 and T5 are almost one corner. aim for the white dot thats still there from the previous pavement. End up at the far right of the track out of T5 for the 'proper' line. I still have problems with 6, I think I'm turning in too soon. I tend to have the bike WAY leaned over for the first part of that corner. Take T7 later than you think for the best line. John Mallendorf showed me that line. I thought I was going fast before (see pic in avatar) but when I took a different line I went almost as fast...in the rain, bolt upright.

I really don't focus on gear selection, which I should do, especially for that track. But staying in third through most of the track (except front and back straights) will yield decent results on an SV.

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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 12:38 PM
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140mph yes no problem, but 150mph Big dif.

Jimbo...you are only faster than me by what I allow you to be....chew on that for a few minutes

Underdog, if you want to follow a fast guy...don't follow Ken.

Im not the fastest guy out there...but I do alright...glad to help you though.
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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 12:50 PM
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as far as gear selection goes. i honestly dont pay attention. i just listen and feel what the bike is doing.

but turn 1 i am in the mid to high 50mph.

T1
comming up to the brake markers i am body brakeing and setting my body position then by (what is there 4 markers?) marker 3-1 brakeing/downshift and am set for my line.

T2
(not really a turn more of a slight lean)
after 1 you stay on the gas swinging wide out of 2 then crossing over the track again approaching 3 (you can pass people here).

T3
carry your speed from turn 2 (possably a hair of brake) for turn 3 staying just to the inside of the crest (middle of track) headed to the (kink) i am already off the bike and set for turn 3D. so its more of just tilt the bike to the right then left then turn. between comming out of the carisel and just befor the turn you should have bled off any speed you dont feel comfortable makeing the turn with.

T4
lean it to the left comming out wide, for turn 5. you should be on the gas comming out of 4.

T5
you come in and touch the apex and swing wide staying HARD on the gas (another great place to pass) move to the left side of the track to set up for turn 6.

T6
this one always thru me off a bit finding the proper place to start my turn. but i think the proper thing to do here is to make it a late turn. leaning it far to the right. you stay on the gas from 6 to the turn markers for 7. in the slight kink they have here you aim for the right side of the kink (if you draw a stright line from the inside of the kink to turn 7 it should be pointing to the far left portion of the track this is your line)

T7
comming up to 7 is fair share of brakes and another late turn and stay tucked in and hard on the gas headed into turn 1.

comming down the front stright you can catch people in the braking parkers if you take the inside. (you have to be a mad man on the brakes but its alot of fun to catch them there too)

i think that sums up my lap. i have a confirmed 1:23. but i know i had to be going faster (the becon wasnt working my last 2 days there). i can only speculate that between 1:22-120. possably a 1:19. (if chills got a 1:19 and i was in front of him i had to get something REAL close to that)

at that pace i was rideing in 2nd spot for I group.

as for what goes on in my head as i am rideing, i just try to breath slowly and know what to expect for each turn befor i get to it. i try to think 2-3 turns ahead, so i can see my entrance and exit for the following turn. but other then that be comfortable and listen to your gut. one thing i foudn out when i was at gratten later in the year was if i hold the end of the clipons vs. having my hands in the middle of the clipon i have alot more control and feel alot more stable pushing the bike around.


on a side note: i have put my CCS dreams aside for next year. i think its time to be pratical, and put another year of track rideing under my belt. This was my first year and i made great imporvements. i want to go about it the proper way and not get over my head, so what i am thinking is takeing the CCS course, then takeing some of the other classes that are offered by the race schools to help build my skill and knowledge of what is going on befor i try to compete w/ other people.

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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:04 PM
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A hot lap at BHF... well I've have only a couple of hot laps at BHF. The last one ended in a crash in T4. Luckily my gf got most of it on tape. She put the camera down and ran to see if I was okay. I told her next time to film the whole thing.

T1- 2nd gear rolling on the throttle as I'm apexing.
T2 - as I leave T1 I upshift to 3rd.
T3/Carousel - leave it in third and keep on the throttle from T2 to the kink where I downshift to 2nd. I love dragging my knee all the way through the carousel.
T4-T5 - Start off in 2nd and try to upshift as I lean into T5... doesn't work well with normal shifting... NEED HELP SWITCHING TO GP!!!
T6 - 3rd gear... slow down a little before I lean in then open up the throttle at the apex of the first half.
T7 - sometimes I get up to 4th on the straight with 6A, but I drop down to 2nd to get through T7.
Front Straight - get into 4th and start slowing down just after the building.

I have no idea how fast I'm going at any time. I have my speedo taped over. I'm not good enough yet where I can move my attention to the gauge and then back to the track quickly enough.

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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Optimus_P
i think that sums up my lap. i have a confirmed 1:23. but i know i had to be going faster (the becon wasnt working my last 2 days there). i can only speculate that between 1:22-120. possably a 1:19. (if chills got a 1:19 and i was in front of him i had to get something REAL close to that)

.
1:19's put you ahead of people like jeff, and my best time is a 1:20.16, you 2 must be absouletly flying in I!!

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kruz
140mph yes no problem, but 150mph Big dif.

Jimbo...you are only faster than me by what I allow you to be....chew on that for a few minutes

Underdog, if you want to follow a fast guy...don't follow Ken.

Im not the fastest guy out there...but I do alright...glad to help you though.
I know we are all waiting for the day you show us your the fast guy and we are just your pawns

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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimGoFast
1:19's put you ahead of people like jeff, and my best time is a 1:20.16, you 2 must be absouletly flying in I!!
i think Jeff pulled a 119 @ BHF that last weekend.

but liek i said. i have an indicated 123. but i had to be running 1-3 secs faster on sunday. it was either chills or b-money that had a 119 on teh control riders timer he was right behind.

I is flyin man. there are no jokes about that. i laped my fair share of people. i laped someone on a 2stroke 3times in one session.

thats my story and im stickin to it.

if i didnt crash 6laps in, i have no doubt i would be bumped to A befor the end of that day.
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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:26 PM
 
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It's been so long now, I've forgotten. I know there's a lot of shifting and braking involved.
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Optimus_P

but liek i said. i have an indicated 123. but i had to be running 1-3 secs faster on sunday. it was either chills or b-money that had a 119 on teh control riders timer he was right behind.

I don't think it was me with a 119 that day behind a control rider. I know the CR and I were hauling ass (faster than I had been before) but a 119? That's smoking. I wish it had been me!!! I could say I'm faster than Jim.

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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:42 PM
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i dunno. it was a guy that we hadnt seen at the track befor, but he was from CLSB.

either way. everyones seen me at the track. my timer hasnt flashed "DANO TIME" yet but I movin pretty well.

Willard: When I was home after my first tour, it was worse. I'd wake up and there'd be nothing. I hardly said a word to my wife, until I said "yes" to a divorce. When I was here, I wanted to be there; when I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle.
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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:42 PM
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I dont want to embarrass Lupi by telling him what a FAST lap is like at BHF.

NESBA #456 Intermediate
Always 1 step ahead of Lupi. 1:24:7 BHF
And 1 step behind Kimmy

"SoB gets to spend yet ANOTHER season faster than me." -LUPI-
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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:46 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Think corn and pigs. Lots and lots of corn and pigs.
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Location: Think corn and pigs. Lots and lots of corn and pigs.
Sportbike: A Big Blue One, a threesome of Sexy Red Ones - and a Happy Yellow One!
Years Riding: Quarter century.
How you found us: I was looking for Jimmy Choo's in my shoe closet.
           
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You guys crack me up!!!

Front straight at BHF is good for 140.

T1 is about a 75 mph corner (exit side). Looks tighter but if you look at the map you will see how it opens up.

Gearing is everything, and subject to what you're riding. You'll do a lot less shifting on a stock V-Twin versus a stock I-4.

T5 is another optical illusion.

WOT from 6 Gate ALL the way into the Kink.

T7 is good for around 70 or so.

Currently, I'm geared -1 in front and +8 in back. T1 is 3rd and can get an upshift in around T2... down for the Bus Stop... up between 4/5 and up 1/down 2 before 6. Up after 6 Gate and up before the Kink... then down twice into 7. ALL the way up on the front straight, then back down to 2nd/3rd again for T1.

I still think I liked my old gearing better (spent more time in 3rd around the back half of the track)... may try going up one more just to be sure. More shifting = more work, and I'm basically lazy.

Kim
CCS AM #815 - the cute, fuzzy, yellow, spoiled-rotten half of Team Duc Tape!
I break stuff
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 01:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Uki Village
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Location: Uki Village
Sportbike: 03 GSXR 1000, 02 RM250, 03 TTR125L
Years Riding: considerable time
How you found us: install job
           
Ha Ha! This is good fun teasing ourselves just before it gets REALLY cold outside!!!
Anyway, Optimus, yeah I was the one with a borrowed XT laptimer from Garth that day at BHF. I was also the one right behind you when you went sliding off in T3. Man you nearly went all the way to the tree line! My best indicated time for the day was a 1:21 sumtin. We were definitely flying in the 'I' group that day. I showed the laptimer with my best time to Garth later when I returned the timer to him....he was like....hmmm decent, what about your other times? Most of my other laps were mid to high 20's. I was like.....DECENT?!?!MAN, I was f'ing flying out there. Anyway, most of the others have given good advice about how they handle BHF so I don't want to be redunant. I will give you a piece if advice given to me at R.A. by the speed god himself....Alan Fedderson.
To get better lap times, work on these three things:
1. Brake later going into the corners
2. Carry more corner speed
3. Get on the gas earlier coming out of the corner.
Can't wait until spring
Anyone know if any dates have been put out there for spring track days?

the uncarved stone
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-20-2003, 02:11 PM
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just kidding

<---- Useless Mufugga
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