Why are they faster? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2005, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Why are they faster?

What actually makes one rider faster than another? 2 riders on the same team, presumably on equal bikes, yet one is consistently faster. Why?

Does the faster rider have the mental ability to process what the bike is doing and correct quicker? Is he making small corrections multiple times while the slow guys are still trying to figure out what is going on?

I once read they put heart monitors on Biaggi and Rossi. Biaggi regularly registered 140bpm during a race while Rossi never broke 80bpm. (my heart beats faster than that watching MotoGP on TV)

Is riding truly fast a natural ability that some can never achieve or is it a learned thing that comes with lots of practice.

BTW, I'm referring to "Rossi fast" or "Mladin fast" not just pro-rider fast.

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-24-2005, 10:50 PM
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the machine doesnt' make a fast rider... the rider makes a fast rider... as is with anything... some people can do things better than others.. maybe one guy went out drinking alot the night before.. thats usally my excuse

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:59 AM
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equal mechines but a faster rider, is the better rider, threw skill and ability to manage it.



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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 07:46 AM
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I also think the person risk taking abiltily comes into play.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 08:25 AM
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Knowledge of the track, ability to understand what the machine is telling them and to be able to correct if need be. Bike setup(suspension adjustments) too I'm sure is a huge factor in being faster or not.

"Is riding truly fast a natural ability that some can never achieve or is it a learned thing that comes with lots of practice"

The answer, yes to both. Take Rossi for example, you mentioned his heart rate vs. Biaggi's (from Faster BTW) Rossi obviously has a huge amount of talent and racing is just like playtime for him, whereas Biaggi, who also is extremely talented, experiences racing as more of an " extreme sport." Of course they have natural ability, anyone who is competitve at that level has to have that, it's just some racers, 1) are just more natural, and 2) deal with the stresses of competition better, and are more focused.

It should be noted that I don't and have never raced before, so anything I said should be taken w/ a grain of salt and I may be way off

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 08:27 AM
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Dr. Claudio Costa did the heart monitor thing. His comments about it appear on the Faster DVD.

Who really knows why one rider is better? Some riders take more chances and the chances work out. Some riders know what chances to take to reduce the risk of failure. Some riders are able to more accurately predict what will happen when they take a chance and are prepared to respond to the worst case scenario if the chance they take doesn't work out.

A lot of it is like any physical or mental ability, I'm sure. Some people are phyiscally faster, stronger, etc. Some people are able to process information faster mentally. People like Rossi come around once in a lifetime.

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The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 08:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSMAIL
I also think the person risk taking abiltily comes into play.
I'm not sure that Mladin or Rossi are taking any more risks than their competitors when you look at how seldom they crash. I think they're better at toeing the line without crossing it. That's the amazing thing to me with top level riders - you watch them and they're constantly at the edge of their available traction, yet they manage it so well, so gracefully...
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 09:53 AM
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I think preparation plays a huge role. If you look at almost any athlete that has dominated his or her sport for any length of time you will see tons of talent, but also a work ethic that was more determined than the competition.

Obviously lots of practice time on the track and on the bike is a necessary ingredient, but at that level I would have to assume the amount of physical conditioning and mental preparation would be very, very high.

I bet that type of preparation varies substantially from one rider to the next. I'd like to see how each rider spends their time off the track.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 10:00 AM
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The greatest quote on this subject was done by a pretty famous person involved in MotoGP, it goes something like this

"If it was not for the rider, we would all be watching particle acceleration."

Who can tell us, who's quote it this?

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 10:07 AM
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Guys like Rossi only appear to be godlike because no one is pressuring him day in and day out. I guarantee that if he raced in the Rainey/Schwantz/Doohan/Gardner era (back when men were men and metrosexuals got their asses kicked), he wouldn't seem so damn consistently awesome. You can pretty much say the same for Mladin.

In my opinion... Rossi just hasn't crashed hard enough yet.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 10:35 AM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logtar
The greatest quote on this subject was done by a pretty famous person involved in MotoGP, it goes something like this

"If it was not for the rider, we would all be watching particle acceleration."

Who can tell us, who's quote it this?
My pick would be Barry Sheene for the person that made the afore mentioned quote.

Bill T., Jr.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 10:37 AM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
Guys like Rossi only appear to be godlike because no one is pressuring him day in and day out. I guarantee that if he raced in the Rainey/Schwantz/Doohan/Gardner era (back when men were men and metrosexuals got their asses kicked), he wouldn't seem so damn consistently awesome. You can pretty much say the same for Mladin.

In my opinion... Rossi just hasn't crashed hard enough yet.
The 2002 Japanese GP, when he crashed twice in qualifying, had a vicious crash. The belief is that he was well in excess of 125 MPH and about to slam into a guard rail. That whole episode is on the Faster dvd, as well.

Toby Moody was quoted, against the Kevin Schwantz quote "Wait 'til you see God, then brake", as saying "Rossi saw God!".

Bill T., Jr.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Taborn
The 2002 Japanese GP, when he crashed twice in qualifying, had a vicious crash. The belief is that he was well in excess of 125 MPH and about to slam into a guard rail. That whole episode is on the Faster dvd, as well.

Toby Moody was quoted, against the Kevin Schwantz quote "Wait 'til you see God, then brake", as saying "Rossi saw God!".

Bill T., Jr.
I remember that but A close call is just that a close call. He wasn't hurt. I wonder how he would react to a typical Schwantz, Rainey, Gardner type crashes. Where you break some multiple shit.

Last edited by Chunk; 04-25-2005 at 12:51 PM.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:52 PM
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the really fast guys have really big balls. its true.


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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:53 PM
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:57 PM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook
the really fast guys have really big balls. its true.

I'm grateful to God that I'm not a really fast guy!

Bill T., Jr.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Taborn
I'm grateful to God that I'm not a really fast guy!

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Why not? then you'd have some purty senoritas trying to cup your gonads.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 09:38 PM
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I don't believe it is about taking chances or having balls...... mostly.

Think of it like this.... when two people look at the same data they draw different conclusions... I understand physics fairly well but when Stephen Hawking considers a physics problem.... there is a different level of understanding.

With motorcycle racers, the good ones understand the subtle messages the bike sends and translate them in to better setup, better use of available traction and most importantly more speed.

A guy like Rossi "makes" the best bike because he gives the most accurate and complete non-erroneous feedback to a gifted engineer who can translste that feedback into meanigful changes that make the bike the way Rossi wants it ... then it performs better and gives more feedback to improve etc, etc.

Fast is realtive.

When I was in the "B" group I thought I was going pretty fast... then I got faster and moved to "I" where I thought I was going pretty fast....now I'm in "A" and I know I still have a lot to learn.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-25-2005, 09:41 PM
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Maybe it's the Turbo
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 07:16 AM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
Why not? then you'd have some purty senoritas trying to cup your gonads.
I have a gorgeous seniorita cupping my gonads but, this one is enough!

Bill T., Jr.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 07:18 AM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXSIVSPD
Maybe it's the Turbo
THAT's gotta hurt!

Bill T., Jr.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 07:44 AM
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100% the rider. Let's sit back and just look at the stats on new bikes. The 0-60, 0-100 etc. they are fractions of a seconds apart. Even numbers between 1st and 4the place is sometimes less than 2 seconds! We are at the point today where the machine is really no longer the factor but only the rider. Rossi on the Honda was deadly. He helped tune the Honda to be one of the easiest bikes to ride fast. Then he went to Yamaha who was said to have a slow inferior bike. Well, after his first season with this lesser bike he walks away with the trophy. A good machine is garbage with a bad rider.
Maybe that also explains why I couldn't play like Jordan after I bought his shoes

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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 09:23 AM
Old bikes RULE! RIDE ONE!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200
100% the rider...

Maybe that also explains why I couldn't play like Jordan after I bought his shoes
I wish I could say that I don't understand but, I understand completely.

Bill T., Jr.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by under200
A good machine is garbage with a bad rider.


Under200
A great rider on a crappy bike will appear to be garbage too. Just ask McCoy who went from winning races to being a backmarker before getting shipped over to WSBK. Rossi didn't perform magic with the Yamaha. It's not like no one has won a race on the M1 before him. It was capable of winning just not consistently. We all know that Rossi is the best so far and he could probably win the championship on any of the top finishing bikes , but surely he can't win a championship on a WCM or a Proton/KTM. So yes, when two bikes are milliseconds apart in performance, a great rider can overcome the difference and win but not when you're down 20 horsepower and 25 mph on your competition.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2005, 09:59 AM
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