front wheel action at lean angle... - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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front wheel action at lean angle...

Something I noticed a lot on sunday @ BHF was in turn 3 when I was at a pretty good lean angle my front wheel would start to actually turn in and almost felt like it was sliding out, a couple times I noticed I would actually start to go wide. My front tire is a Diablo Corsa with 32psi (checked throughout the day). I'd go into the turn normal counter steering, getting my body off the bike... once I got down to where my knee would touch and I started to accelerate through the turn I'd feel the bars shift and start to turn in. My front tire has about 6000 miles on it of street use. This is it's 2nd track day. I'm assuming it's from to many heat cycles and it's time for a new tire? Or could it be my suspension? I ran this weekend with no plastics on and in a few corners I felt like I was to much over the front of the bike could this have helped cause that too?
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Last edited by NickIF; 08-01-2005 at 03:51 PM.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 03:43 PM
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I think you were just sliding the front....Track guys? Isnt that normal?

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger
I think you were just sliding the front....Track guys? Isnt that normal?

hah I hope not? Made me more than uncomfortable a couple times

edit: I forgot to mention... the back tire was planted solid the entire time even throughout acceleration, this would only happen with the front.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:04 PM
 
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I presume you mean 32psi checked "hot" right? Otherwise when the tire warms up to operating temp its surely closer to 35psi. If you're running 32psi checked when "cold" drop the pressure down to 28psi and see how that feels.

If your tire pressure is correct then I'd have a look at your suspension settings, too much compression can kick the tire out as you described it as well.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:04 PM
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Now i am no expert and haven't done any track days but i am sure this is a combination of a couple factors.

Suspension and Body Placement. If you are putting your weight too far forward and the suspension isn't set up to compensate then too much of your cornering traction will be put on your front tire causing the front to wash out. I would think to correct this you need to stiffen/raise the back of the bike or ofcourse adjust your body positioning.

Or it could be your corner approach. If you aren't setting up your entry speed correct and are sort of using the lean to slow you down then your momentum shifts forward too much. You need to be on the gas at a constant speed through the corner or accelerating to get the proper suspension balance.

Again....i have no clue what i am talking about.

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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:20 PM
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First off your tires are shot. With that many miles on them I am suprised you didn't tuck the front. You need fresh rubber. If you are considering doing trackday from now on get yourself another set of rims. That way you can have your track tires on whenyou go to the track. Then when you get home and street ride you can toss the street tires on. That is the first thing. Second what is done to you suspension????????






Don't read into this like I am ripping into you. I started out just like you not knowing anything when I first started. Nobody taught me shit I figured it out the hard way. Just trying to help out
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:21 PM
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it's called pushing your front end. Where the front tire wants to fold in and either stands you bike up making you go wide or low sides you. Your front tire doesn't look bad at all but pictures are deceiving as it doesn't show you how old the tire is or how many heat cycles it's been through. Assuming you were doing 26's or 23's as you stated earlier in a different post, you really shouldn't be pushing your front end anywhere at blackhawk. I'd check your suspension to make sure that it's not packing or rebounding too fast.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good2Go
First off your tires are shot. With that many miles on them I am suprised you didn't tuck the front. You need fresh rubber. If you are considering doing trackday from now on get yourself another set of rims. That way you can have your track tires on whenyou go to the track. Then when you get home and street ride you can toss the street tires on. That is the first thing. Second what is done to you suspension????????






Don't read into this like I am ripping into you. I started out just like you not knowing anything when I first started. Nobody taught me shit I figured it out the hard way. Just trying to help out

Not at all, suspension is bone stock as far as I know.. bought the bike from a squid and it had 3,xxx miles on it
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTTguy
I presume you mean 32psi checked "hot" right? Otherwise when the tire warms up to operating temp its surely closer to 35psi. If you're running 32psi checked when "cold" drop the pressure down to 28psi and see how that feels.

If your tire pressure is correct then I'd have a look at your suspension settings, too much compression can kick the tire out as you described it as well.

I'm positive it's not tire pressure, everyone that I've talked to runs 32 front 34 rear (cold)
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:29 PM
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SRTTguy Diablo's are supposed to run a little higher than other tires. 32psi cold is good.

I've never ran into that problem on my 636 running the same tires. Although I've never had 6000 miles an a track tire. My first guess would be the tire is shot. Mine are just about done with about 12 track days on them and a couple hundred street miles on them.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger
I think you were just sliding the front....Track guys? Isnt that normal?
I am like Seargent Schultz....I know na-ting! I see na-ting!

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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I really figured it was the tire just wanted to here everyone else's opinion. And when's the next CLSB "suspension day"???

Anyone wanna get rid of a slightly used front diablo corsa? My rear is brand new (2 track days) 0 street miles. I'm only planning on doing 1 more track day this year so I really don't wanna fork the cash out for a new one. Hook a brotha up
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:34 PM
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I don't know anything about the Kawi's but Dano can give you some info on set up. I don't know how much help he can give you since he doesn't run stick stuff but he may be able to help.


You can only go so fast in 3. I don't care who you are. It is kinda of slick if you get off the racing line. Was there anywhere else the front felt like that??? But for sure you need to replace you tires with that many miles on them if you want to push you bike on the track.
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:35 PM
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I don't know shit for trackdays, but figured 6000 on a front is way to much for a trackday tire.


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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good2Go
I don't know anything about the Kawi's but Dano can give you some info on set up. I don't know how much help he can give you since he doesn't run stick stuff but he may be able to help.


You can only go so fast in 3. I don't care who you are. It is kinda of slick if you get off the racing line. Was there anywhere else the front felt like that??? But for sure you need to replace you tires with that many miles on them if you want to push you bike on the track.

only when it did that which resulted in this in turn 4 That's when I decided to pack it up and go home. Same thing basically. I was getting faster and faster through 4 and one time it just washed out a bit, caught and tried to buck me.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF
only when it did that which resulted in this in turn 4 That's when I decided to pack it up and go home. Same thing basically. I was getting faster and faster through 4 and one time it just washed out a bit, caught and tried to buck me.
Same pose as your avitar!

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegger
Same pose as your avitar!

hah my avatar is a flamingo circle.. not a crash
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF
only when it did that which resulted in this in turn 4 That's when I decided to pack it up and go home. Same thing basically. I was getting faster and faster through 4 and one time it just washed out a bit, caught and tried to buck me.
lol that pic would make a great avatar
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
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hah my avatar is a flamingo circle.. not a crash
No stunting allowed at NESBA! Just thought the foot off the peg bore a striking simalarity.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 05:04 PM
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I am betting it is more your suspension riding style than the tire. I have run a few sets of those tires and have never had any front-end trouble. I even wear them past the wear bars front and rear. How much do you weight? This is the biggest factor with stock suspension. Set your sag too this could help if you are close to 150 lbs in weight. The front should be 30mm of rider sag.

Also make sure you are not putting input in to the handlebars when in the corner this could also be causing this problem. You can also lower the forks in the triple trees if you have enough room for the clamps to fit. This will make the front more planted but a little harder to turn in. If the bike turns in easy then I would do this it helps to keep extra weight off the front tire.

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus-9R
I am betting it is more your suspension riding style than the tire. I have run a few sets of those tires and have never had any front-end trouble. I even wear them past the wear bars front and rear. How much do you weight? This is the biggest factor with stock suspension. Set your sag too this could help if you are close to 150 lbs in weight. The front should be 30mm of rider sag.

Also make sure you are not putting input in to the handlebars when in the corner this could also be causing this problem. You can also lower the forks in the triple trees if you have enough room for the clamps to fit. This will make the front more planted but a little harder to turn in. If the bike turns in easy then I would do this it helps to keep extra weight off the front tire.

that's actually how I noticed it.. I was working on being loose and smooth and not having a death grip. I weigh 180lbs, I'm not to sure about any of the suspension stuff. Bike feels easy to throw around but I believe the fork legs are as low as they can go.

Last edited by NickIF; 08-01-2005 at 05:14 PM.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 05:32 PM
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I'll bet the tire is no good, 6k is a lot of street miles for any tire.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF
that's actually how I noticed it.. I was working on being loose and smooth and not having a death grip. I weigh 180lbs, I'm not to sure about any of the suspension stuff. Bike feels easy to throw around but I believe the fork legs are as low as they can go.
I would start from stock. get the fork legs to stock hieght. then set the sag front and rear to proper settings for your weight. Set the compression and rebound to middle of the road settings and then adjust from there. Keep a notepad with you and record what you feel the bike doing with each change. and buy some new tires. Of course I'm no expert, but this is just what I've picked up from the track junkies I know. I would also do as someone else said and get a second set of wheels and throw some slicks or good track tires on. At 180 lbs I doubt your suspension is optimised for you.




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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 06:36 PM
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Check the flux capacitor you fool!!!
Seriously, Nick I'm still trying to figure this stuff out. I would start with new tires and setting your sag to the proper height. Get that stuff lined up first then start playing with the compression and rebound. There's alot of guys out there that do know what their doing, and have always helped me out. That's why I love this place.

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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alright so first order of business is getting a new front (my rear has 2 1/2 track days on it and zero street miles, I'm sure it's good for at least 3 more) than it's suspension time. Is there any links anywhere where I can read about what does what and how to set it? As far as I know the fork legs are where they were from stock? There's about 1/8" of fork leg sticking out on top now.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 07:25 PM
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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cool I'm going to have to devote a weekend to that!
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 08:10 PM
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Suspension would be my first guess as others have mentioned. but look at the rear suspension too. if you are running to much rebound in the back and to little sag in the front then the front will get washy. but also if you are running to much damping in the front, either compression or rebound, then the front will feel wooden. grab a note book and keep track of the changes and what happens

Also look into frame alignment, tire scalloping

does the tucking feeling happen every time every corner or just once in awhile

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 11:00 AM
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It's your tire bro. That thing is probably hard as a rock. When you're riding on the track tires are the most important thing. Going from old rubber to new rubber can transform a motorcycle from a poorly handling machine to a brand new one!

Never mix and match tire brands, i figure you already know that, different brands, even though they are the same size, have different profiles.

If I were you I'd leave your forks where they are at in the trees, it should be rite if thats the stock setup.

Basically to set your sag, put a zip tie on one of your fork legs and move it all the way up onto the fork seal.

For the rear measure from a fixed point on the tail to the center of the rear axle.

Have 2 friends to help you hold the bike up, sit on the bike with all your gear and measure how much the suspension goes down.

Base line you should have about 30 -35 mm sag front and rear. Now I'm sure alot of people can get technical, but that is base line.

If you are getting more or less than that, adjust the preload on your shock and forks either more tite or loose.

CHANGE THAT PEICE OF GRANITE FRONT TIRE. And if you ever have old tires on your bike when your on the track and the bike is giving you warning signs, back off! Bad tires can get you hurt really bad or even worse in some cases.

If I ever see you at the track I'll gladly give you a hand. Tire wear is a tell tail sign of inproper or proper suspension set up.

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to pick up a set of race tires and do my suspension for the 15th, I can't wait
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