How to measure and setup geometry - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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How to measure and setup geometry

I need to measure the geometry of my bike and get the geometry right with these new track tires on it.

I already had the geometry of the bike checked over the winter with the stock tires on it and everything was cool, the bike was straight and had no issues.

Since the track tires are very different that the stock tires, I know I need to get the geometry dialed in.

DO you guys know how to measure and then dial the geometry in without taking it to a performance shop? If I have to do that I will, but I would much rather do it myself.

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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 03:58 PM
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Hey Ron. If your bike is already setup w/ street tires on, all you need to do is find out what the diameter difference is between street and track tires.. You can usually find all of that info on the tire mfg. website.
Then raise/lower (I'm guessing raise) the forks up in the triple clamps and figure out if you can adjust the rear ride height or perhaps use a spacer to get it higher.

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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 07:40 AM
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Hey Ron, you could pay me do do your set-up. Of course, I have no clue how to do it, but I'd be happy to make some changes and then you could go out and try it and see how it feels.

If it doesn't work out for you, bring it back, I'll make some more changes and see if you like it worse or better.

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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 08:40 AM
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You rode it on street tires at Barber?

Like Bmoney said, you'll need the old and new tire's diameters. Then check this thread for some calculations. If all else fails, post the tire sizes up on the NESBA board and the brainiacs can figure out what you need.

EDIT: Linky... http://www.nesba.com/TrackTalk/bb/Fo...ML/002165.html

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Last edited by TheGrouch; 04-07-2006 at 08:51 AM.
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 08:52 AM
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FWIW, he rode 180/120 Pirelli Dragon Slicks the first day at Barber, then he rode 190/120 set-up the second day.

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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 08:58 AM
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What tires were on it when measured by GMD? And what's it gonna be for this season?

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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:01 AM
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Dunno... Ron, answer yer own darned thread!

The season is gonna be Pirelli Diablo Super Corsas. 190/120 config. Primarily SC1/SC3 set-up.

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:07 AM
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You mean DRAGON Super Corsa SC-1 SC-3

I think........

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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:11 AM
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if your junker was optimized "set up geomitry for best rake and trial, swing arm angle etc" then all you have to do is alter the ride height for the differant sized tires.


in my case when ever i switch brand to brand even in the same size there is differances in which i call up jim and 4&6 and he tells me exactly what to change to bring it back to where it was with what ever tire i do.


hopefully matt can do the same for you.



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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys
in my case when ever i switch brand to brand even in the same size there is differances in which i call up jim and 4&6 and he tells me exactly what to change to bring it back to where it was with what ever tire i do.
You like being someone's bitch, eh?

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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrouch
You like being someone's bitch, eh?

how about i slap your face bitch!



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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:54 AM
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Sorry bout that...feeling a bit fiesty with the track season almost upon us!

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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrouch
Sorry bout that...feeling a bit fiesty with the track season almost upon us!

i made a thread in the open forum to release our frustration in.

so chim in.



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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry guys, away from the PC for a while...WORK, imagine that!

I want to do it from scratch, and I'm the kind of guy who doesn't like to be dependant on anyone else. That is not a reflection on anyone or anything in particular, I am just kinda anal like that. PLUS, I like to learn!

That is why I am looking for some good instructions / directions on how and what to measure and how to use these measurements to calculate and adjust geometry.

Thanks for the inputs though!

BTW, thanks for being my secretary Brian and handling these response in my absence. ;-)

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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 12:21 PM
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Ron,

Look for a book called 101 Sport bike projects by Evans Brassfield. It explains how to set sag, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076...lance&n=283155

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post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 12:28 PM
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Ron - I have that book on the shelf here, feel free to read it and teach me how to do geometry.

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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 12:38 PM
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youll also need to have a computrack mechine and computer to pin point all the base settings and after settings. also the knowlage to know what set ups best perform best for your bike. which also means you have to ama specs on set up.

all in all i pay 4&6 to do it and free info on how to change it from tire to tire.

ive added my 2 cents, and now i am done.



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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 12:48 PM
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Ron,

If I understand you correctly......


The bike was all setup to sweet numbers on your current tires.

Now, you are using a different tire and need to maintain the sweet numbers.

Correct ?

Tom

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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 12:50 PM
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I'd say leave it alone until you've ridden it at your usual pace then make adjustments as needed. Besides, there's no magic numbers are there?
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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
I'd say leave it alone until you've ridden it at your usual pace then make adjustments as needed. Besides, there's no magic numbers are there?

there is a general small area, and withien that area, one can taylor to suit.



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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys
there is a general small area, and withien that area, one can taylor to suit.
agreed... makes life alot easier if you have a good baseline to work with.
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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 02:02 PM
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it is, you know i had no idea next to the next guy trying to feel more comfortable and get faster.

suspension BIG help, then optimizing was a BIG+1 help.

after i did it the bike fell in nice, came out nice i felt less pushing the bike.

and YES ive messed with internet tryings, raise the fork legs, drop the fork legs, raise the rear end, lower the rear end, counter the sag to adjust ride hight, etc, etc, etc. best couple bucks ive ever spent was getting it optimized by 4&6.

when i went back to the track i shaved off 2 seconds, and felt a WHOLE lot better about my bike.

if i change brands or tire sizes, i call up jim, he tells me to adjust this or that "usually just the rear ride height" and thats it i am done.

usually what i do now from track to track, blackhawks, grattan, r.a. north or south A.B. i play with the rear ride height to differ the turn in rates, withien 1-3 full turns i can turn the 9r to a twitchy head shaking beast or a smooth dragster depending on stright aways.


fine tuning you can actually feel even inbetween the the sweet area.


its helped me alot and tooken alot of the guess work out of it, when i am trying to get faster and feel comfortable.



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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY
Ron,

If I understand you correctly......


The bike was all setup to sweet numbers on your current tires.

Now, you are using a different tire and need to maintain the sweet numbers.

Correct ?

Tom
Hey Tom,

Since the bike was a salvage title, I had the bike measured to ensure that it was straight and did not need any major frame / swingarm / fork repairs. I don't think the bike was "set up to sweet numbers" because I was not sure what tires I was going to run this year.

Now that I have the tires in place, I want to do all the setup from the ground up. I am clear on how to do suspension, just wanted some info on how to measure / adjust geometry.

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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 03:49 PM
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Interesting, I've never even thought about this. I guess I'm just pretty out of tune with the suspension on my bike, just have the sag more or less set and the dials set to defaults and never touched them since then. I don't ever feel anything that the bike is doing bad unless I see the tire shredding, or get sliding/wobbling/shaking. How are you guys feeling these 5mm adjustments to certain parts of the bike?

Maybe I'm just too slow for the suspension to even matter...

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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix
Hey Tom,

Since the bike was a salvage title, I had the bike measured to ensure that it was straight and did not need any major frame / swingarm / fork repairs. I don't think the bike was "set up to sweet numbers" because I was not sure what tires I was going to run this year.

Now that I have the tires in place, I want to do all the setup from the ground up. I am clear on how to do suspension, just wanted some info on how to measure / adjust geometry.
4 & 6, or ride it hard and see if a) you have headshake or b) if it is very hard to turn,

or both!

NESBA #95 A
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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emoor
4 & 6, or ride it hard and see if a) you have headshake or b) if it is very hard to turn,

or both!
I hear ya Ed. I know 4 & 6 would do a great job and I just may give them the chance if I can't do it myself. I am just a hands on type of guy ya know. I like this stuff and enjoy working on the bike. And if it can be done without a big fat expensive machine by a professional at a race shop then darnit...I want to know how to do it!

Since nobody seems to really know how to actually measure the geometry of their bike, maybe it really is something that requires that big fancy shmancy pro geometry measuring machine.

Ron Hix
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 07:13 PM
 
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Ron, sounds like you might be intrested in buying that suspenshion for mortals DVD and trying to learn suspenshion setup technigues for yourself.
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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:08 PM
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I've got the DVD, I think Ron has it as well. Snore.... ZZZZZZ.... hard to watch the whole darned thing...

But doesn't that focus on suspension? I think we have a decent handle on suspension, the key here is the geometry. Does SFM DVD cover that as well?

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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink
I've got the DVD, I think Ron has it as well. Snore.... ZZZZZZ.... hard to watch the whole darned thing...

But doesn't that focus on suspension? I think we have a decent handle on suspension, the key here is the geometry. Does SFM DVD cover that as well?
Tell me about it, I don't remember the first dvd at all.

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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-08-2006, 04:09 AM
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ron next time i see you lets talk about setting up geomitry and what i know you cheap ass



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