Suspension Guru's - Check this for me! - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Suspension Guru's - Check this for me!

I put together some info I found online. Can some of you suspension guru's verify this for me.


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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 03:26 PM
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You simplified it a bit and replaced And/Or with just Or (in at least one place).


Any idea who originally created this? I'd imagine it's from someone's book. I hate to post it here without giving credit...
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
You simplified it a bit and replaced And/Or with just Or (in at least one place).


Any idea who originally created this? I'd imagine it's from someone's book. I hate to post it here without giving credit...
Or, Heaven forbid, a copyright violation should occur!

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Taborn
Or, Heaven forbid, a copyright violation should occur!
Exactly my friend....

I'd give credit to the Web site I got it from, but that wouldn't do the author too much good.

So I am asking... does anyone know where this came from?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Marcus T. McBain (no idea who he is) gets all the credit for the flow chart! Max McCallister gets credit for the SAG recommendations.

I TAKE NO CREDIT FOR ANY OF IT, except the check your tire pressures reminder!

What I really want is someone smarter and more experienced than me to tell me if the info is accurate before I start using it as a guide to tinker with my suspension.

Ron Hix
MTD CR #975

Last edited by ronhix; 05-19-2006 at 03:38 PM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 12:19 AM
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Good info Ron! I'm still trying to figure out the best rebound and compression settings on my new rear shock.

Track Junkie #79
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 08:49 AM
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I'm sure a lot of that can change from race track to race track, tires being used, the motorcycle being riden, and a million other factors but most of all the rider on the machine.

The rider being able to pin point one thing or 10 things happening is the most important thing when chasing suspension or motor issues.

I know Ken at Superbike Italia is a suspension Pro! He knows his stuff. I'll foward him this and see if I can get him to reply on here for all of us.

He adjusted mine and K3's supension at Grattan this past weekend and both of us picked up seconds on our lap times.

I was running consistant 1:29's and 1:30's when he was done.

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Last edited by Grasshopper; 05-22-2006 at 08:53 AM.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 09:13 AM
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Marcus is the real deal. This is a very good guide to help.

http://www.roadracinghelp.com/

From the man himself

Please feel free to utilize this information at N/C. If you like what you see, simply donate $20.00 USD to the RoadRacing World Action Fund (go to www.roadracingworld.com for more information). If you want a production quality print of the material, simply contact Marcus McBain via email. Advanced Racing School Course Books are $20.00 while while the complete collection of South-Central Track Maps are $25.00 (just production quality prints) or $50.00 (production quality prints with plastic covers on each page and a binder). A portion of all profits are donated to the Road Racing World Action Fund.

Advanced Racing School Classroom Handbook

Track Mapstrack_maps.htm

GARTH
www.nesba.com

Last edited by G97; 05-22-2006 at 09:23 AM.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 09:20 AM
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that sounds about right ron, if i was getting those actions, the suggestions makes sense to me, infact ive done them.

that is the right ball park.



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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseys
that sounds about right ron, if i was getting those actions, the suggestions makes sense to me, infact ive done them.

that is the right ball park.
Speaking of ball park suspension setups I just got an email from Race Tech that says the forks on the GoldWing 1800 are cartridge on one side and damping rod on the other! They sell a cartridge emulator and compression valve set up for those bikes. How wierd is that?

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard..."

The first turn is the worst turn, between the left ear and the right one.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:15 AM
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not to werid, it is a sportbike in full dress.



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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:22 AM
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Dunno if I'm one of those "Suspension Gurus" or not, but I'll give my opinion anyway

Stuff looks good from my point of view. A couple of questions and comments from my point of view.

-In several places, Marcus uses spring force and damping force seemingly interchangibly. This is a something of a falicy from an engineering standpoint.

-Often, when Marcus presents a choice... xxxxx OR yyyyy, priority should be assigned to the first option.

-If the bike doesn't turn in, lower the front.

-Generally, cornering additude controlled by GEOMETRY (front and rear ride heights), load transfer by springs (rate and preload), ride comfort by damping.

-What the bike does before the apex is dominated by the front end. What it does after the apex is dominated by the back end. You can make changes at the opposite end, to have a posative effect, byt the magnitude of the change will often be great enough as to adversly effect another regime of the setup.

-Marcus McBain might be the coolest name I've ever heard.

-Braking is a steady-state affair. In other words, the event is spring dominated. You CAN change (rather significantly) braking behavior by dialing in compression damping, but the front will then be so overdamped in the compression stroke that it will have a very negative effect on bump compliance. See point #1

-Rear ride height - 2mm at the shock (I think) or at the chassis? Lever ratios are generally 1.8 - 2.5 to 1. 2mm at the shock is 3-5mm at the chassis.

-This is a very good 1-page summary.

MOST IMPORTANT:
This summary presumes that you have the proper rate front and rear springs! If you do not, you will not acheive BOTH static and rider sag numbers. DO NOT simply set sags to 30mm and assume all is well. If you measure less than 7mm of static sag, F/R, your springs are too soft! 85% of all OEM springs are too soft! Following this flow chart with incorrect springs, you may tune yourself into trouble. For example, dialing in so much rear preload that, while adressing "running wide," that you easily top out your travel and spin up the rear, while still not holding a line on the throttle.

Todd Murray
CCS #911, NESBA #911 MW CR

Last edited by murf99; 05-23-2006 at 10:36 AM.
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