When to move to Intermediate? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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When to move to Intermediate?

Iím wondering when itís really time to move up to I? This would be with STT and PTT only. At this point Iím getting the lines down and now itís just a matter of practicing them and picking up the pace gradually. I ran Intermediate at Grattan this past weekend and it felt ok. There were a few guys who lapped me, but it worked out pretty well if I started towards the back of the pack. Only reason Iím considering it is because I donít think I need to go through the courses each time with STT, but perhaps I can stick it out until Iím comfy riding in the first group or two in the N section? Iíve averaged riding only 2 track days a year for the last few years on my streetbike and doing the whole 2 pairs of jeans thing. But this year have gotten more into it and now have all my gear and a track only bike so itís more comfy now for sure with no thought of crashing before having to ride the bike home So far 3 track days this year.
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post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 11:55 AM
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if you are consistant in your lines, and not parking it hard in the corners, and most importantly you feel comfortable in I. Then its all good, keep it up in I group.

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post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparBoyy
if you are consistant in your lines, and not parking it hard in the corners, and most importantly you feel comfortable in I. Then its all good, keep it up in I group.
+1 Just keep an eye out crap passes. If you hear somebody on your ass for a couple corners, ease up a bit to let them pass safely on a straightaway. Otherwise, especially in I in STT, they may try a pass that they can't make. That usually results in YOU going off roading.

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post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover
+1 Just keep an eye out crap passes. If you hear somebody on your ass for a couple corners, ease up a bit to let them pass safely on a straightaway. Otherwise, especially in I in STT, they may try a pass that they can't make. That usually results in YOU going off roading.
Yea had a couple guys buzz me for some odd reason this past Saturday. I don't bother changing my line when I'm letting someone pass me I just don't roll on as much coming out of a corner so they can easily overtake me which ever way they preffer. But I guess that'll happen any time.
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post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 12:15 PM
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I feel the same way you do, Biggy. I'm to where I've been a novice for so long, that when I go up to the classroom sessions after each, I am not hearing anything new or anything I don't know yet -- I just need more practice to be faster ( and be less timid ) but yeah, it's kinda a pain to sit up in the control tower with first-time track goers and hear "Look through your corners" again and again. I have those classroom sessions memorized.

Think of this: Intermediate is dangerous as hell. It's full of people who just got bumped, but aren't experienced, controlled or professional enough to be in Advanced. I know people who have gotten the bump to Intermediate and are like "HELL NO! I'm not going out to that free-for-all!"

It's not like you can't go fast in Novice either. Hell, last year, K3 said the 0 group was going full race pace.

In the Novice group, you also get to sit in the air conditioned classroom in between sessions. That's what I liked.

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post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowass
Think of this: Intermediate is dangerous as hell. It's full of people who just got bumped, but aren't experienced, controlled or professional enough to be in Advanced. I know people who have gotten the bump to Intermediate and are like "HELL NO! I'm not going out to that free-for-all!"
good point Rach.. you get the mix of beginners and advanced to look out for. i have seen as much as 15 second lap time differance from the slow to the fast.

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post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowass

It's not like you can't go fast in Novice either. Hell, last year, K3 said the 0 group was going full race pace.

In the Novice group, you also get to sit in the air conditioned classroom in between sessions. That's what I liked.
yeah, by about mid-day, the first Novice group is usually CONSISTENTLY going faster than 3/4 of the I group.

You don't always HAVE to be in the same group with STT. You can bump down if you want (and there is room). If you are signing up for a track new to you, I'd definately suggest it. The first couple sessions would be good sighting laps, after that you'll probably be at a comfortable pace, without the yahoos doing stupid stuff.

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post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:05 PM
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Well, I feel that Intermediate is a better group than beginner because the lap times are all within a 15 second range. I remember back in Beginner the range was over a minute. At Blackhawk, that means lapping someone every lap and a half.
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post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:22 PM
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Biggy,

The more saddle time you get the more comfortable and better you will get. Just work on being smooth, conistant, looking through your corners and getting your ass OFF THE SEAT! I know you have heard this 10 thousand times but there is a difference between hearing it and doing it.

Plus you are on a new bike that you need to get used to. I thought you were riding quite well Saturday. Just keep it up and don't ride over your head.

See what you can do about those foot pegs that feel too high. Mount the stock ones back on there if you have to and give that a shot.

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Last edited by Grasshopper; 05-22-2006 at 01:27 PM.
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post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
Just work on being smooth, conisitant, looking through your corners and getting your ass OFF THE SEAT!
You've just illustrated why we don't want to be in novice anymore! We already know this and don't need to hear it another 100 times! We want to go take a sh!t between sessions and get some shut eye, not hear this YET AGAIN! We know! We know!

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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:31 PM
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I only said it because that is the key to moving up. If you don't do the things listed above, the fact is you are not ready for Intermediate. Plain and simple. To carry cornerspeed the ass needs to move off the seat.

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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
Biggy,

The more saddle time you get the more comfortable and better you will get. Just work on being smooth, conistant, looking through your corners and getting your ass OFF THE SEAT! I know you have heard this 10 thousand times but there is a difference between hearing it and doing it.

Plus you are on a new bike that you need to get used to. I thought you were riding quite well Saturday. Just keep it up and don't ride over your head.

See what you can do about those foot pegs that feel too high. Mount the stock ones back on there if you have to and give that a shot.

Only problem is that I'd lose the GP shifting if I went with the stock pegs, and I kinda like it now. I'm thinking I might try to raise the seat a bit. Anyone ever do that?
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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
I only said it because that is the key to moving up. If you don't do the things listed above, the fact is you are not ready for Intermediate. Plain and simple. To carry cornerspeed the ass needs to move off the seat.
Again, all stuff we already know.

You're making the mistake of thinking that we fail to do those things because we don't realize that we're supposed to do it.

To make an analogy, it's like taking the driver's safety course over and over again every time you get a ticket. You know you're not supposed to speed or get in car accidents, but you keep having to take the class every time you do. You hear the same thing over and over again.

My point is, some of us are pretty motivated to get to I so that we can go sit on the can for

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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
Only problem is that I'd lose the GP shifting if I went with the stock pegs, and I kinda like it now. I'm thinking I might try to raise the seat a bit. Anyone ever do that?

GP shifting is not going to make you slower or faster. GP shifting mite give you a fraction of a second on your fastest lap time because instead of moving your foot up to shift the lever you just BAP it down.

If your street bike is standard, keep your track bike standard so you don't confuse yourself. Take care of shifting and braking when the bike is up rite for now. Once you get more comfortable you can play with trail braking and shifting while leaned over.

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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGY
Only problem is that I'd lose the GP shifting if I went with the stock pegs, and I kinda like it now. I'm thinking I might try to raise the seat a bit. Anyone ever do that?
no, but is the ride height and rest of the suspension set up for you and not Bonnie? One of your legs probably weighs more than she does, if that suspension isn't tweaked you will have problems.

For "big guy on small bike" questions, I'd ask K3. He's almost your size and rides an SV.

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post #16 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Suspension is Ohlins with front and rear both setup for my weight, so I'm good to go there. I feel a bit squished when riding on Bonnie's rearsets, but I think they are pretty standard up 1" and back 1". I'm not sure going with the stock pegs is even worth that amount, but I'll think about it.

As for the shifting. I kind of like it and got used to it after just a few laps when I got the bike 2 weeks ago. It's pretty much 2nd nature now. I don't need it to be faster, but it is nicer.
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post #17 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowass
Again, all stuff we already know.

You're making the mistake of thinking that we fail to do those things because we don't realize that we're supposed to do it.

To make an analogy, it's like taking the driver's safety course over and over again every time you get a ticket. You know you're not supposed to speed or get in car accidents, but you keep having to take the class every time you do. You hear the same thing over and over again.

My point is, some of us are pretty motivated to get to I so that we can go sit on the can for
That is all understandable. I completely understand what you are saying. But what I don't understand is why people don't try to apply what is being taught in the class. We spend so much time trying to explain and demostrate the proper way to pilot a motorcycle and so many people don't even try to do it.

A lot of the times during class we get blank looks. And then when we ask if there are any questions people are just quiet.

We are working on different ways to run the Novice program. There are a lot of ideas and some things will change soon. All in all we seam to get much good feed back from customers. I think what makes people happy is hunting them down, spending time with them, helping them with there bikes, and helping them try different things to better there riding experience. Just as long as everyone is happy we are happy.

And if someone isn't happy with there day, I hope they would track and instructor down to help make it better.

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Last edited by Grasshopper; 05-22-2006 at 01:56 PM.
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post #18 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 01:55 PM
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My .0000001 cent. If your the first one in the fast group and you're on the CR's butt, you might be ready for the I group.

Just be aware that if someone tries to pass you on the inside to let him by. Not just let off a little, but let off a lot to let them by. Some of them think there faster than they really are.

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post #19 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:01 PM
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You learn more from riding around people who are faster than you are.

Once at the front of B consistently, take the bump and get some new role models

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post #20 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:04 PM
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Biggy, it will all come together, just keep riding, asking questions, and having fun.

You have just done 2 weekends at the most difficult track in the Midwest, Blackhawk is going to be so simple to you after Grattan.

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post #21 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLARNEY
You learn more from riding around people who are faster than you are.

Once at the front of B consistently, take the bump and get some new role models

Tom
+1

Last weekend at Blackhawk I couldnt do better than a 1:25 leading the Intermediate pack. Then last session Melissa (Advanced rider) decides to ride in the Intermediate group. Finally I had a rabbit to catch. I ran a 1:22 trying to catch up to her, and I would have passed her if it wasnt for the traffic we hit lapping the slower guys.

Needless to say, if I dont have someione pushing me, Im never going to get faster. I was totally comfortable runing the 1:22's. I am still a few seconds off the "A" pace, but thats okay. Ill get there one of these days. Just need a little more seat time and a little more aggression in my corner entry speeds.
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post #22 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:19 AM
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What is an average NESBA "A" pace at BHF?

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post #23 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:23 AM
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Sub 20

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post #24 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:33 AM
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Oh hell yea!

I may have to do a NESBA day this year.

Garth will make me start in I though. And then its going to SUCK!! Because I in NESBA doesn't let you pass a CR unless he waves you past.

Where are the proper places (according to NESBA) to pass in I at BHF?

I'm on a SV so I pretty much have to pass on the brakes and in the corners.

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post #25 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:36 AM
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Outside passing only. You can pass on the brakes on the inside as long as you complete the pass (rear wheel clears his front wheel) before the other guy starts turning. No passing CR's unless you get a wave-by. With all the stuff going on in that other thread, I bet Garth will make you start in B group

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post #26 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:36 AM
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You can pass in I anywhere except the INSIDE of a turn.

You cannot pass a CR at all unless they wave you by, but if they see you coming, or you show them a wheel, they will wave you right by. (not on the inside either)

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post #27 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:39 AM
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NESBA "I" Group rules (not that I know)

Passing is open anywhere on the straights, outside of the turns only. (to prevent some hothead from sneaking inside and washing out another rider)

As for passing CR's - lemme know how that goes. I've seen Alan and Garth and Marshall turn some pretty sick times when they decide to wick it up. I'm guessing all you'd have to do is show em a wheel once or twice to get your point across.

Again, I'm not saying any of this from experience as I can't even keep up with Ron!

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post #28 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
I'll start saving now for my 240 dollar track day.
Start saving for a 2007 Honda RS250. Fully revamped for the first time since 2001. It will be a copy of the RSW that Dovisioso and Takahashi ride. Only for a measly price tag of $24,000.00 Put a $1000.00 deposit down with me and I'll get you one.
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post #29 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:49 AM
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See the thing I don't understand about not being able to pass on the inside is:

If you do pass almost completely on the inside it tells that person, and I thought it was common race track ediquette, to give that person on the inside that line.

If you pass on the outside the person you are passing won't always know you are there because they are looking through the corner. Then that person you are passing wants to go wide at the exit of the turn not seeing you and mite run you off the track because you are passing on the outside.

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post #30 of 63 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
Start saving for a 2007 Honda RS250. Fully revamped for the first time since 2001. It will be a copy of the RSW that Dovisioso and Takahashi ride. Only for a measly price tag of $24,000.00 Put a $1000.00 deposit down with me and I'll get you one.

Let me ask Slowass financing

Ok I asked her,

She said NO!

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