Can this be? F1 vs. MotoGp? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Can this be? F1 vs. MotoGp?

F1 Lap Times
http://newsonf1.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24

MotoGP Lap Times
http://www.yamaha-racing.com/motogp/...categ=nextrace

Can this be right? That seems like a huge difference in lap times.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:02 PM
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MOTOGP bike are quick, but F1 cars are FAST

Old Moto GP times there, but generally speaking F1 cars are about 20% faster per lap.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:04 PM
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watching F1 on TV doesnt do it justice. Being at a race, you get a feel for the corner speed that these cars carry. Fast doesnt begin to describe them

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:13 PM
BSB > WSBK > MotoGP
 
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F1 cars create insane amounts of downforce at speed. No MotoGP bike can stop or corner like these cars.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:24 PM
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It is all in the cornering speed, F1 is way faster through the corners then MotoGP.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:27 PM
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadrach
F1 cars create insane amounts of downforce at speed. No MotoGP bike can stop or corner like these cars.
You can add other cars to that list too. There are other race series who's cars generate substantial downforce but none of them will lap a road course at similar times as an F-1 car.

The technology and construction of these cars rivals that of a fighter plane. We're talking price is no object materials use and rediculous engineering budgets. They are the fastest, sexiest machines on land. No questions asked.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXSIVSPD
You can add other cars to that list too. There are other race series who's cars generate substantial downforce but none of them will lap a road course at similar times as an F-1 car.

The technology and construction of these cars rivals that of a fighter plane. We're talking price is no object materials use and rediculous engineering budgets. They are the fastest, sexiest machines on land. No questions asked.
ditto
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:40 PM
So long San Diego :(
 
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A porsche 911 turbo will beat any STOCK liter bike around a road course, Sure the bike gets it in a line, but has to brake way sooner, accelerate later, and can't carry near the speed through a corner. Think about the rubber contact patch difference between the two. They demonstrate this feat on Top gear several times. Almost every supercar can beat a bike on a road course.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about the Liter Bike, I haven't seen the show (top gear) in a while. I can't remeber if they use 600's on the show or 1000's. I'm almost positive they use an R1 when comparing times to supercars.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:41 PM
You got the talkin' done
 
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Bone crushing downforce

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadrach
F1 cars create insane amounts of downforce at speed. No MotoGP bike can stop or corner like these cars.
I think they produce about 3,000 lbs of downforce. I could be wrong, but I think that is close.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95ildelsolsi
A porsche 911 turbo will beat any STOCK liter bike around a road course, Sure the bike gets it in a line, but has to brake way sooner, accelerate later, and can't carry near the speed through a corner. Think about the rubber contact patch difference between the two. They demonstrate this feat on Top gear several times. Almost every supercar can beat a bike on a road course.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about the Liter Bike, I haven't seen the show (top gear) in a while. I can't remeber if they use 600's on the show or 1000's. I'm almost positive they use an R1 when comparing times to supercars.
There are MANY production based cars under that $125K mark that can do this as well - Slightly tweeked EVO, STI, R32 are 3 that come to mind off the bat - You put the rest of the Porsche GT 2,3 lineup in that list as well but they get a little more pricey

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:47 PM
So long San Diego :(
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug
There are MANY production based cars under that $125K mark that can do this as well - Slightly tweeked EVO, STI, R32 are 3 that come to mind off the bat - You put the rest of the Porsche GT 2,3 lineup in that list as well but they get a little more pricey
True, I forgot about those.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-06-2006, 02:48 PM
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Don't forget that F1 cars are capable of creating astounding levels of braking force! That means not only do they reach very high topspeeds, they can stay at spped longer and brake later.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 01:31 PM
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Yup - the big differnce between bikes and cars is the downforce.

Power-to-weight, acceleration, there is very little in it.

F1 cars generate up to 4Gs of cornering force, and almost 5Gs on the brakes. Bikes are only able to do ~1.25Gs in either direction

At Road America, Superbikes brake at about the #5 brake marker for T5. Champ cars, from 30mph faster (210 vs. 180) inside the #2, at the #1.75.

The car vs bike goes back about as far as dirt itself. Until the early 2000s, cars had the upper hand (see Viper vs. YZF-1000 article in Motorcyclist and Car and Driver from 1997). Recent advances in bike construction and tire technilogy have flipped that balance. In a Sport Rider 2004 article, Kevin Schwantz lapped Willow Springs 7 seconds faster on a Gixxer Thau than he did in a Vette Z-06 (he's raced both cars and bikes, therefore considered to be equally capable on both).

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 03:14 PM
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Yeah, well I can afford a Gixxer 1K/R1/ZX10 but I doubt an F1 Ferrari is (or ever will be) in my budget. Dollar for dollar bikes are the best buy.

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 03:19 PM
 
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Don't F1 cars generate enough downforce at top end to theoretically be able to drive upside down? Something about the downforce being more than the weight of the car......
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 03:40 PM
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Yes. Indy/Cart cars can too I beleive once they hit triple digit speeds. That's a pretty impressive stat if you ask me.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2006, 03:43 PM
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Yeah.

The F1 cars generate 5Gs on the brakes from top speed (taken from the USGP last year).

Probably 1.5Gs would be possible without downforce.

So...
5G / 1.5G = 3.3x the cars effective weight in downforce at top speed. Say 220mph.

Since aerodynamic force (downforce) is a square function of speed (aero force goes up 4x as speed doubles)...
Feq = 220 / sqrt(5/1.5) = ~120mph

So, by my very off-the-hip calcs... F1 cars can travel upside-down at 120mph.

Not bad, considering they have flat underbodies.

The aerodynamic kings were still the old IMSA GTP and FIA Group C cars. MASSIVE underbody wings, closed wheels and cockpits, turbos the size of your head, and 260mph potential!

I'm sporting a chub...








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Last edited by murf99; 07-13-2006 at 03:46 PM.
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